Young Earth v. Old Earth

[rossum]

What we know - Revelation is true.

But not all interpretations of revelation are true. Jews and Protestants have interpretations of Revelation that differ from Catholic interpretations.

One can try to fit Revealed truth to scientific theory (scientism) or one can test science to revealed truth.

Revelation is fixed, and does not change. Interpretations of Revelation are not fixed and do change. For example, the attitude to slavery has changed from OT times to the Roman Empire to now. Revelation is still the same, but the interpretation of Revelation has changed.

$0.02

rossum

 

[mapleoak]

It makes God to be a deciever if what appears to be very, very old, is actually very, very new.

No it doesn’t. If you observe the universe and believe it to be old, that could be your mistaken conclusion. You are assuming that if an object has the properties of an old object, it must be old in your fallible determination. If it isn’t old, then it is a lie. This is not supportable by logic.
On the other hand, if God said the world was young when in fact it was old, He would be a deceiver. Clearly God has not said such.

 

[mapleoak]

But not all interpretations of revelation are true. Jews and Protestants have interpretations of Revelation that differ from Catholic interpretations.

Revelation is fixed, and does not change. Interpretations of Revelation are not fixed and do change. For example, the attitude to slavery has changed from OT times to the Roman Empire to now. Revelation is still the same, but the interpretation of Revelation has changed.

$0.02

rossum

But not all interpretations of observed evidence are true. Scientists have interpretations of evidence that differ from other observed interpretations.

Revelation is fixed, and does not change. Interpretations of evidence are not fixed and do change.

 

[mapleoak]

It is entirely possible that the universe was created in a state of existence and then set into motion. It is entirely reasonable to believe that when God said “Be light made. And light was made” that He created not only the sources of light from which light had to first travel from (by the way that source of light would appear to have been around in order to exist), but also the light itself already in the path of travel. Why would that be deception?
Note that an inherent property of matter is to appear to have already existed.

 

[Mannyfit75]

There is one error in the Creationist theory that the earth is 6,000 yrs old. If you look at a distant starts and galaxies, they range from thousands of light years away to 4 billion light years away. It would be impossible to take the earth is 6,000 yrs old.

 

[Deconi]

Last I heard, the speed of light has been test in a vacuum to be at least 300% faster than in Einstein’s time!

If that is correct and the speed of light is actually a variable, so too will be the “age calculations” based upon it.

Just a thought.

 

[The_Barbarian]

Last I heard, the speed of light has been test in a vacuum to be at least 300% faster than in Einstein’s time!

That would be a universe-shaking finding. Do you have a source for that one?

If that is correct and the speed of light is actually a variable, so too will be the “age calculations” based upon it.

Sure would. If it’s true. Do you have a source for that?

 

[The_Barbarian]

It is entirely possible that the universe was created in a state of existence and then set into motion. It is entirely reasonable to believe that when God said “Be light made. And light was made” that He created not only the sources of light from which light had to first travel from (by the way that source of light would appear to have been around in order to exist), but also the light itself already in the path of travel. Why would that be deception?

For one thing, God would be showing us supernovae that never existed. All the data would be faked. That seems very unlike God.

Note that an inherent property of matter is to appear to have already existed.

So far, all the matter we find indicates an antecedent cause in nature.

 

[rossum]

Last I heard, the speed of light has been test in a vacuum to be at least 300% faster than in Einstein’s time!

Reference please. Last I heard the speed of light had been found to be constant for the last 10 billion years, and very probably for the last 12 billion. See Fine Structure Constant.

If that is correct and the speed of light is actually a variable, so too will be the “age calculations” based upon it.

It is almost certainly not correct.

rossum

 

[rossum]

But not all interpretations of observed evidence are true. Scientists have interpretations of evidence that differ from other observed interpretations.

Agreed. So science and Revelation are in exactly the same position relative to absolute knowledge.

Revelation is fixed, and does not change. Interpretations of evidence are not fixed and do change.

Revelation does not change; interpretations of Revelation do. Do you eat pork? Jews don’t. Do you keep slaves? Some Christians used to. When did you last stone one of your sons to death for disobedience (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)? All different interpretations of the same Revelation. Interpretations of Revelation change over time.

rossum

 

[brierpatch1974]

I am no expert for sure but I think the best record of evolution would be to follow the fossil records of the horse. We have fossils form each stage and in bewteen stages of size increasing and their feet going from many toes to just one hoof.

It always amaze me why people can except things adapting to their changing climates and enviroments but they refuse to believe in evolution. They are the exact same thing except one takes longer.

Best example I can give is the polar bear. It is nothing more than a brown bear except the shape of the head is made a little differant. Yes we can say the polar bear is larger but that comes from its diet more than anything else.

 

[Thing]

I am no expert for sure but I think the best record of evolution would be to follow the fossil records of the horse. We have fossils form each stage and in bewteen stages of size increasing and their feet going from many toes to just one hoof.

It always amaze me why people can except things adapting to their changing climates and enviroments but they refuse to believe in evolution. They are the exact same thing except one takes longer.

Best example I can give is the polar bear. It is nothing more than a brown bear except the shape of the head is made a little differant. Yes we can say the polar bear is larger but that comes from its diet more than anything else.

Interesting. Has anyone traced the evolution of the horse through time and location, is there any chart or such like available anywhere?

 

[buffalo]

But not all interpretations of revelation are true. Jews and Protestants have interpretations of Revelation that differ from Catholic interpretations.

Revelation is fixed, and does not change. Interpretations of Revelation are not fixed and do change. For example, the attitude to slavery has changed from OT times to the Roman Empire to now. Revelation is still the same, but the interpretation of Revelation has changed.

$0.02

rossum

What we call slavery now and what it was before are two different things. One of them should be renamed.

The Catholic interpretation is correct because it has the added benefit of Jesus’ teachings and clarifications.

 

[buffalo]

There is one error in the Creationist theory that the earth is 6,000 yrs old. If you look at a distant starts and galaxies, they range from thousands of light years away to 4 billion light years away. It would be impossible to take the earth is 6,000 yrs old.

First off if one examines the geneologies they would put creation at about 12,000 years ago. Not a big deal in the big picture, but we should be using the correct arguments.

Never say impossible.

One only has to take the 2d flatlander example and apply it to our dimensions. We cannot see into other dimensions. We can only interpret what we can observe.

 

[buffalo]

That would be a universe-shaking finding. Do you have a source for that one?

Sure would. If it’s true. Do you have a source for that?

Light has been both accelerated and decelerated.

Light can break its own speed limit, researchers say

 

[BRB]

There is one error in the Creationist theory that the earth is 6,000 yrs old. .

Man might be only 6K yrs on the earth … history only goes back to 3-4 K BC.

Clearly the fossil record ‘suggests’ the earth itself is ancient. But, that is only what scientist perceive with dating techniques.

Could the earth of been created to only appear ancient ? Yes, but I doubt God would desire to deceive man.

So, we have an ancient earth … and a young mankind by comparision. Evolution alone cannot explain this enigma.

God expects scientist to see the limitations of their investigatory tools … and to see God’s hand in creation of ancient Universe.

 

[Orogeny]

I am no expert for sure but I think the best record of evolution would be to follow the fossil records of the horse. We have fossils form each stage and in bewteen stages of size increasing and their feet going from many toes to just one hoof.

It always amaze me why people can except things adapting to their changing climates and enviroments but they refuse to believe in evolution. They are the exact same thing except one takes longer.

Best example I can give is the polar bear. It is nothing more than a brown bear except the shape of the head is made a little differant. Yes we can say the polar bear is larger but that comes from its diet more than anything else.

The thing is, the age of the earth has nothing to do with evolution. True, evolution needs an old earth for life to have evolved from it’s beginning to what we have now, but even if evolution didn’t happen, the earth is old. There are multiple ways to show that that don’t rely on the fossil record.

Peace

Tim

 

[rossum]

Interesting. Has anyone traced the evolution of the horse through time and location, is there any chart or such like available anywhere?

Yes:


Image from laelaps.wordpress.com/category/evolution/

Basically horses did most of their evolving in North America.

There is a more detailed look at the evolution of the horses at Horse Evolution.

rossum

 

[rossum]

What we call slavery now and what it was before are two different things. One of them should be renamed.

Then pick a different example - eating pork or compulsory male circumcision have both changed since those parts of Revelation were originally written.

The Catholic interpretation is correct because it has the added benefit of Jesus’ teachings and clarifications.

My local Rabbi tells me that he disagrees

rossum

 

[buffalo]

Then pick a different example - eating pork or compulsory male circumcision have both changed since those parts of Revelation were originally written.

My local Rabbi tells me that he disagrees

rossum

These were ceremonial. But let’s just take pork - pork can contain harmful parasites. Perhaps it was forbidden to eat pork, just like we make sure we cook pork well before eating.

Circumcision - until recently most boys were circumcised. There are known health benefits to circumcision.

You disagree too. Everyone can disagree. However, there is only one truth.