Young Earth v. Old Earth

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SFTor said:
So we should all accept that the Earth was created 6,000 years ago, at a time when the Mesopotamians already were brewing beer?

Respectfully,

Tor
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To be consistent with the geneaologies it would have to be pushed back to 12,000 years ago.
 
SFTor said:
But this was a recent development, no? I think I remember it happened around 1991 or so.
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I think that was the push to formalize the fifth Marian Dogma?

Many things in the Catholic Church are known and practiced. For example, the creeds are really defenses made to heresies. These things were formalized as a result.
 
buffalo said:
To be consistent with the geneaologies it would have to be pushed back to 12,000 years ago.
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I don’t understand. Father Usher was wrong?

And 12,000 years ago, that’s when the Earth came out of the Pleistocene (the last Ice Age) and we entered the Holocene (age of modern humans).

So if the Earth was created only then, where did the dinosaurs live? Did they just float around in space?
 
SFTor said:
I don’t understand. Father Usher was wrong?

And 12,000 years ago, that’s when the Earth came out of the Pleistocene (the last Ice Age) and we entered the Holocene (age of modern humans).

So if the Earth was created only then, where did the dinosaurs live? Did they just float around in space?
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Yes he was.

That puts Adam and Eve at 12,000 years ago. God could have supernaturally created Adam and Eve supernaturally and inserted them in the timeline whereever He wished regardless of what may or may have been happening on earth at the time.
 
And I still can’t understand how Father Usher could be wrong. He made very accurate calculations based on the generations going back to Adam and Eve. x
 
buffalo said:
Yes he was.

That puts Adam and Eve at 12,000 years ago. God could have supernaturally created Adam and Eve supernaturally and inserted them in the timeline whereever He wished regardless of what may or may have been happening on earth at the time.
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But didn’t he just create the Earth too, like five days before?
 
buffalo said:
It wouldn’t matter either way. Long ages or short ages, He could have put them right where He wanted.
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So he picked a time right after the last Ice Age. That’s not a bad spot when you think about it. They would have mammoths to hunt and so on. And it’s convenient, because then it fits with the Bible.

How about the Cambrian revolution? When did that one happen?
 
SFTor said:
So he picked a time right after the last Ice Age. That’s not a bad spot when you think about it. They would have mammoths to hunt and so on. And it’s convenient, because then it fits with the Bible.

How about the Cambrian revolution? When did that one happen?
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I do not know.

It could coincide with the flood.
 
The_Barbarian said:
No. Populations have adaptive capability. It’s random mutation and natural selection. And yes, it’s been tested and observed to happen. However, the genomes of individuals are not adaptive; they remain the same for a lifetime.

Yep. Evolution. That’s what adaptation is. Gotta tell you, as a teacher, I often use “change over time” or “adaptation” early on, and it’s interesting to see the reactions when they realize what it is.

One student exclaimed; “but that’s just common sense.”

Yep.
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Common sense isn’t a human commodity. 😉
 
SFTor said:
Most scientists date the Cambrian Revolution to about 550 million years ago. Hogwash?
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There are others here that have more knowledge than I about dating methods and such. Perhaps someone with more depth will reply.

Actually I posted the geneaologies link. It is important for both sides to be using the correct info.
 
D_M said:
Hi jcrichton!

I’ve seen jaws, but I am not aware of ‘Orca’… I have known people who talk to their pets… and there are people who value animal life over human life (e.g. in the Hindu faith cows are worshipped as sacred, which is a title that I think humans fall short of, or perhaps more true to the western world, there are perhaps people who spend more money on things like birdseed than they do on actually feeding the poor)

Are we sure that the angels could not have been created in God’s image? Admittedly the bible does not appear to make any specific mention to the creation of the angels, although I’ve heard people make either claim (ie. that some say they have God’s image, and others say that they don’t)…

It’s an interesting understanding that you have of the creation in God’s image to mean an untapped potential to know God…I wonder though, if you are not averse to critical analysis… if the angels were not created in God’s image than does that mean they do not know God? or rather are limited in the degree they may know God?

for instance, is it then true that the angels then could not understand the mechanism of snow or be awed by its design (to quote the example you used above)?

I’m thinking especially of the angels in scripture that speak of God’s glory throughout all creation.

are the angels unable to understand natural laws?

Sometimes I think trying to understand God’s image is about as fruitful as trying to understand God Himself… maybe the very nature of the image is like unto the Divine it resembles, in that we are unable to comprehend it and what it means, but nevertheless are able to know that it is there?

God Bless,
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Hi, D M!

…my understanding of the Creation of the angels is that, as Scriptures tell us, they were created to serve God; they were created as spiritual beings (so there is a similarity to God since God is Spirit); they were created to serve as go between–not to serve man but to facilitate Yahweh God’s Design. St. Peter reveals to us that they were witness of the Word and that they desired to know the full revelation of Christ but understood that they were only assisting man’s understanding (1 P 1:6-12); when the Sadducees, who did not believe in the resurrection of the dead, attempted to test Jesus (wife of 7 brothers), He clarified that they knew very little about Heaven since man will be as the angels… compare this with the various revelations about His Parusia (which I believe started on the Cross) He came in a changed body which will be inherited by us as we will be changed and we will Know Him as He Knows us (1 Cor 13:12; 15:50-54; 1 Jn 3:2; Jn 1:12); Scriptures do not tell us that we will become angels nor that the angels will inherit the Kingdom as children of God.

…as Scripture tells us the angels are limited in their Knowledge of God… perhaps that is the reason why Lucifer desired to be more… since, as an angel, he could not share in the intimacy that Yahweh God has granted man!

…perhaps my explanation was not as clear as I wanted it to be… I do not suggest that the angels cannot recognize or celebrate the beauty of nature… as cognizant spiritual beings they are able to surpass our understanding of much that exists; their only limitations are that which God has placed on them… but from their perspective, as with the rest of creation, the “awe” effect is something they cannot experience as the intricacies of nature is known to them (the angels) and is mostly obscured to the others (the rest of creation–which can include some humans who are blinded by their ego), as it is pointed out to us by St. Paul in Romans 1:19-21. Where we surpass the angels is in that intimacy with God which they do not share (1 Cor 2:6-12)–this, I believe, was initiated by God when He Created man out of the earth and Breath into him His Spirit!

Faith! It is not that we may understand God or His Image but that we accept His revelations–St. Paul is secure in the knowledge that he will one day Know Christ Jesus as he is Known by Christ Jesus because he will be elevated to that Spiritual level; he understands the implications without requiring to know (human) the mechanism or construct. Jesus put it to St. Thomas this way: “Blessed are they that have not seen and believed.”

Maran atha!

Angel
 
SFTor said:
So he picked a time right after the last Ice Age. That’s not a bad spot when you think about it. They would have mammoths to hunt and so on. And it’s convenient, because then it fits with the Bible.

How about the Cambrian revolution? When did that one happen?
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The whole problem with this discussion is that, anthropologically, we know that homo sapiens have been on the earth for at least 150,000 years.
 
buffalo said:
There are others here that have more knowledge than I about dating methods and such. Perhaps someone with more depth will reply.

Actually I posted the geneaologies link. It is important for both sides to be using the correct info.
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I read the article you linked to. It did not mention the Cambrian revolution.
 
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