Your opinion on homosexual relationships

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What claim am I espousing?
On pretty much any issue you contribute to, you take a position opposed to Catholicism, usually radically opposed.
Not my business what you believe, it’s a free country, it just makes it difficult to have honest discussion when a person doesn’t honestly represent themselves.
 
Fair enough. I don’t find that I am dominating anything. I am trying to just post my opinion. I don’t know how to put in questioning. I go to mass every Saturday with my folks so I can’t really say non practicing.
They (as a camp) are just trying to distract public attention from the fact that they gladly bully, insult and vilify even those who obey the Church’s teaching down to the letter, but differ from them in who they fall in love with. They were called out on their hypocrisy, but don’t have it in them to admit it and apologize. So they need to bury the call-out post deeper in the thread, and soon, because most only read the last page of multipaged topics. This is why you are being attacked. Not because your piety actually concerns them.
 
They (as a camp) are just trying to distract public attention from the fact that they gladly bully, insult and vilify even those who obey the Church’s teaching down to the letter, but differ from them in who they fall in love with. They were called out on their hypocrisy, but don’t have it in them to admit it and apologize. So they need to bury the call-out post deeper in the thread, and soon, because most only read the last page of multipaged topics. This is why you are being attacked. Not because your piety actually concerns them.
I am just who I am. No one special. :curtsey::thankyou:
 
LGBT person: I am as God made me. My actions follow my will to love whom I choose.
I am what my sexuality is. It’s natural and it defines me. It hurts no one.

Catholic: you are not defined by your sexuality, your feelings or your nature. You are a good person you are loved BUT you are not the person you believe you are. Your nature is good and god willed but your actions upon that nature are wrong, disordered, sinful and not pleasing to God.

LGBT person: no, what defines me except my actions, they are who I am. How can I be a good person on one hand and do evil with the other. By judging my actions you judge my being. You say I am good yet call my actions disordered. You forbid me to act upon the love I feel.

Catholic… errrrr. Hate the sin live the sinner…mercy…
Francis, don’t discriminate… errr. Does. Not. Compute.
Shutting down…

When we fail to preach the gospel and the truth for fear of offense we lose.

Which is why we have lost this argument in society.
The saints of old preached hard truths lovingly mercifully and firmly and were killed for it. We don’t have that faith as a whole right now.
 
Did I claim to be your local police chief?
No
You are decrying the fact that people speak about Catholic morality on a Catholic message board, on a thread that asks for opinions about homosexuality.

🤷
not sure what you are expecting, but calling it invasion of privacy is a little silly.
👍
 
LGBT person: I am as God made me. My actions
Your nature is good and god willed but your actions
LGBT person: no, what defines me except my actions
By judging my actions
You say I am good yet call my actions disordered
Hate the sin live the sinner
I’ll be waiting for your apology, and I hope that you, so ready to deem others sinners, live what you preach and will mention this lie in you next Confession.

Again:
You just told a chaste gay person that god is unhappy with them in the same way that god is unhappy with someone who chooses to cheat on their spouse, chooses to drink, or chooses to behave selfishly. The only choice the poster you’re addressing has made is to follow church teaching. If that’s to be compared to active mortal sin, then what hope is there?
 
I’ll be waiting for your apology, and I hope that you, so ready to deem others sinners, live what you preach and will mention this lie in you next Confession.

Again:
You must have completely misunderstood.

Is there something that upset you?

It’s a fictional example of how Catholics lose the debate.
 
LGBT person: I am as God made me. My actions follow my will to love whom I choose.
I am what my sexuality is. It’s natural and it defines me. It hurts no one.

Catholic: you are not defined by your sexuality, your feelings or your nature. You are a good person you are loved BUT you are not the person you believe you are. Your nature is good and god willed but your actions upon that nature are wrong, disordered, sinful and not pleasing to God.

LGBT person: no, what defines me except my actions, they are who I am. How can I be a good person on one hand and do evil with the other. By judging my actions you judge my being. You say I am good yet call my actions disordered. You forbid me to act upon the love I feel.

Catholic… errrrr. Hate the sin live the sinner…mercy…
Francis, don’t discriminate… errr. Does. Not. Compute.
Shutting down…

When we fail to preach the gospel and the truth for fear of offense we lose.

Which is why we have lost this argument in society.
The saints of old preached hard truths lovingly mercifully and firmly and were killed for it. We don’t have that faith as a whole right now.
I think you’d get a lot of helpful insight from checking out spiritualfriendship.org for insight of openly LGB people who live within a traditional sexual ethic (like Ron Belgau, Wesley Hill, and Eve Tushnet). They have articles about why they are open yet still hold strong to traditional teaching (Wesley Hill is only slightly different as he is Anglican and not Catholic).

A major issue is this conflating of LGBT = sexual active and against church teaching. For me, calling myself gay/ssa isn’t identifying in my sin. It is a reflection of the cross I carry and colors the lens through which I see the world. I am still Catholic (my primary identity) and I (like everyone should) go to confession when needed and receive the Eucharist (when able). When I put a name to my cross and after reading things like Washed and Waiting by Wesley Hill and reading Joey Prever’s blog made this easier to deal with.

What hasn’t helped is other Catholics (well meaning) basically telling me how to talk about my cross, how to refer to myself which only implies they’d rather me shut up and not talk about my cross (some people do seem to have that view). They are tired hearing about LGBT related issues, but unlike me, they don’t have to actually deal with that issue on a day to day basis. I have to deflect and watch my conversations so certain family members and friends (who are also Christian and some practicing Catholics) won’t find out because even though I’m celibate, I expect and they have indicated some hostility towards gay people. Not to mention, the helpful questions about when I am getting married as it seems everyone (including Catholics I know) seem to treat marriage as a check box in life for happiness while seemingly treating single people as ‘not real adults who have spiritual matured yet.’ Some even go as far to basically attack celibate and chaste LGB Catholics for not being not being Catholic enough for them. This is the perspective that many LGB/ssa Catholics feel (myself included): patheos.com/blogs/catholicauthenticity/2015/08/a-crisis-in-a-teapot-why-gay-catholics-can-never-be-good-enough/

So while some don’t preach for fear of offending, I think there are some on the more conservative side who add weights to my cross that don’t need to be there. LGBT who are trying to be faithful to traditional teaching are basically attacked from both sides with very little support. For example, it often feels like the only thing some want to tell a LGB person is what they can’t do. Eve Tushnet in her book stated, you can’t have a vocation of No (while still holding to church teaching). It feels too often that many in the church has no interest in actually walking with LGBT/ssa in this journey within the Church.
 
You must have completely misunderstood.

Is there something that upset you?

It’s a fictional example of how Catholics lose the debate.
Don’t you dare gaslight me. It is me who, despite my singlehood and obedience to the Church, has been being called a disordered sinner throughout this topic and compared to adulterers, excessive drinkers and bullies. It is me you attacked, not “fictional person”. I am the only user here who has so far spoken of LGBTQIA issues in first person. I am the “LGBT person” in your witty dialogue. Another user has stated outright that even in my single celibate state I sin.

And I disagree with fellow sufferer at9009 that any of you is well-meaning. Such sadistic eagerness to claim my inferiority to you - that by no means overlaps with meaning well within my worldview. You are bullies. The likes of you threw slurs at me and harassed me in middle school. The likes of you send me messages from fake social media accounts about how they would enjoy murdering me. But I’ll hand it to them - at least, they don’t do it in Jesus’s name.
 
Don’t you dare gaslight me. It is me who, despite my singlehood and obedience to the Church, has been being called a disordered sinner throughout this topic and compared to adulterers, excessive drinkers and bullies. It is me you attacked, not “fictional person”. I am the only user here who has so far spoken of LGBTQIA issues in first person. I am the “LGBT person” in your witty dialogue. Another user has stated outright that even in my single celibate state I sin.

And I disagree with fellow sufferer at9009 that any of you is well-meaning. Such sadistic eagerness to claim my inferiority to you - that by no means overlaps with meaning well within my worldview. You are bullies. The likes of you threw slurs at me and harassed me in middle school. The likes of you send me messages from fake social media accounts about how they would enjoy murdering me. But I’ll hand it to them - at least, they don’t do it in Jesus’s name.
I have no idea what you are talking about. You obviously misunderstood. In my dialogue the LGBT is the protagonist who’s position makes sense.
If you feel there is a lack of charity on the thread you can certainly report it. I’ve said nothing wrong, nor did I gaslight.

Slow down. Revisit the issue.
 
Don’t you dare gaslight me. It is me who, despite my singlehood and obedience to the Church, has been being called a disordered sinner throughout this topic and compared to adulterers, excessive drinkers and bullies. It is me you attacked, not “fictional person”. I am the only user here who has so far spoken of LGBTQIA issues in first person. I am the “LGBT person” in your witty dialogue. Another user has stated outright that even in my single celibate state I sin.

And I disagree with fellow sufferer at9009 that any of you is well-meaning. Such sadistic eagerness to claim my inferiority to you - that by no means overlaps with meaning well within my worldview. You are bullies. The likes of you threw slurs at me and harassed me in middle school. The likes of you send me messages from fake social media accounts about how they would enjoy murdering me. But I’ll hand it to them - at least, they don’t do it in Jesus’s name.
I don’t believe he was trying to gaslight you.

I believe Hoosier Daddy is right, when he calls it a disorder, he is not calling you a disorder, lying is called a disorder in the Catechism, I have lied before in my lifetime, but I do not consider myself disordered, it’s the ‘lying’ that is disordered.

I use LGBTQIA and ‘they’ often when talking about the issue, but when I do use those terms, I am referring to the activists by what I say next, I am not referring to people like yourself. There is just… not much other words we can use because ‘they’ have framed the issue in such a way to deceive people into error. If they can entangle a truth and a falsehood, then they get their falsehood on the back of the truth, which is a deception. Kind of like in Australia the ‘Safe Schools’ program, which pretends to be about safety of LGBT persons at school, but is actually a radical gender theory program targeted on kids (Teaching things like “Nobody can tell you if your a boy or a girl” etc), and when one speaks out against it, well how horrible must they be for opposing a safe school? do they want LGBT to be bullied or something?

I also try to always say ‘Sexual acts of homosexuality’ rather than just ‘homosexuality’ to try and make my point more clear and exclude people like yourself from what I say next.

When Hoosier Daddy said ‘LGBT Person’ He wasn’t referring to yourself or people like yourself because of the dialogue that followed.

It’s hard because I am not exactly sure how to entirely frame the issue to ensure people like yourself wont take it the wrong way, what do we call ‘they’ and ‘them’ other than ‘LGBT Activist?’ and that too can be taken the wrong way and twisted by ‘them’, what word would you prefer we use regarding those who are activists regarding the sexual acts of homosexuality, same sex marriage etc and not just same sex attracted people?

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
If you feel there is a lack of charity on the thread you can certainly report it.
So far I am the one being reported on. A couple of months ago I received penalty for stating that I live far from the U.S., so the journey to my location would cost a lot of money, and if the person, who confronted me, wanted to interview certain people from and near there, they would face the language barrier.

I know very well what is unconsidered “uncharitable posts” on CAF. My words. Not the words of the user, who verbally attacked me, accused me of lying about my experience in a homophobic area, and referred to me as “cute kitten”. No matter how you insult me, me reporting on any of you will result in me, not you, being penalized.
From a post of yours on a different subforum I know that you don’t wish me well. Not because of orientation, but because of our polar-opposite views on a certain politician, who wants me dead and whom you admitted to liking. For both our sakes we should never directly communicate again, because I’ve exhausted my ability to speak to you politely with this message.
 
From a post of yours on a different subforum I know that you don’t wish me well. Not because of orientation, but because of our polar-opposite views on a certain politician, who wants me dead and whom you admitted to liking. For both our sakes we should never directly communicate again, because I’ve exhausted my ability to speaking to you politely with this message.
lol Trump does not want you dead and neither do I.

It’s okay, because in time I’m sure all the false reports regarding Trump will become more evident.

Ironically, Islam (Not everyone, but some) actually wants you dead (Me too if I say that if Muhammad married Aisha at age 6 and consummated at age 9 than I think that’s pedophilia), and which politician has turned their gaze on Islam?

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
I don’t believe he was trying to gaslight you.
I use LGBTQIA and ‘they’ often when talking about the issue, but when I do use those terms, I am referring to the activists by what I say next, I am not referring to people like yourself. There is just… not much other words we can use because ‘they’ have framed the issue in such a way to deceive people into error. If they can entangle a truth and a falsehood, then they get their falsehood on the back of the truth, which is a deception. Kind of like in Australia the ‘Safe Schools’ program, which pretends to be about safety of LGBT persons at school, but is actually a radical gender theory program targeted on kids (Teaching things like “Nobody can tell you if your a boy or a girl” etc), and when one speaks out against it, well how horrible must they be for opposing a safe school? do they want LGBT to be bullied or something?

I also try to always say ‘Sexual acts of homosexuality’ rather than just ‘homosexuality’ to try and make my point more clear and exclude people like yourself from what I say next.

When Hoosier Daddy said ‘LGBT Person’ He wasn’t referring to yourself or people like yourself because of the dialogue that followed.

It’s hard because I am not exactly sure how to entirely frame the issue to ensure people like yourself wont take it the wrong way, what do we call ‘they’ and ‘them’ other than ‘LGBT Activist?’ and that too can be taken the wrong way and twisted by ‘them’, what word would you prefer we use regarding those who are activists regarding the sexual acts of homosexuality, same sex marriage etc and not just same sex attracted people?
Josh
Warning Long ramble
I’d honestly recommend reading some of the stuff at spirtualfriendship.org (a blog by LGBT/ssa Christians who adhere to a traditional sexual ethic-some celibate and some within a marriage to an opposite sex spouse). A good book to read would be ‘Washed and Waiting’ by Wesley Hill.

A good way for you to distinguish people might be SSM affirming LGBT/ssa vs chaste/celibate LGBT/ssa. Language is important and people have done a terrible job at expressing that there is place for LGBT/ssa within the Church and that they are actually wanted. Most of the discussion revolves around why marriage is the way it is or a rather worthless semantical debate over a three letter word (gay) vs a three letter acronym (SSA). For me, I tend to use both interchangably as they mean the same to me and by using gay I’m not implying it is central to my identify. Rather it is just simply a description of the cross I carry. It does get rather frustrating where it feels like I have to justify talkign about my cross or struggles where there is this often not so subtle feeling that many within the Church would want nothing more for me to go into the back of the church, shut up, and never talk about my struggles so they could basically go back to pretending that I don’t really exist other than a theological discussion about a ‘theoretical gay/ssa Catholic.’

I am also rather frustrated lack of discussion is out there. I sadly still often here that I’m a worse Christian because I have this cross, that if I had actual faith I wouldn’t have these particular temptations,that I must have been abused or had a bad father experience, apparently experimented as a child or was bad a sports, that gay people are threats to children, to hear society ills blamed on ‘the gays’ (like how an Italy priest blamed for an earthquake), to feel like I’m pushed to the THEM in the US vs THEM, that somehow talking about anything even remotely related to my sexuality is shoving it in people’s faces, and finally that if there is any discrimination, then it’s basically my fault for not staying closeted enough. I get frustrated that some have this culture war mentality so that it’s basically by any means necessary. So if that means sacrificing any compassion in order to appear completely orthodox then I guess it doesn’t matter a few LGBT/ssa people lose hope and ultimately leave the faith. Because without support and hope, the victories one has with their cross begin to feel hollow and the failures feel inevitable leading to more disheartening feelings and often sadly a complete loss of faith. Sadly, the attitude seems to be rather than pull people like that up, it’s ‘don’t let the door hit you on the way out.’

I understand that many are fatigued when dealing with this issue, but I don’t have the luxury of just not dealing with it. I have to monitor my speech, language, work on my poker face so my family doesn’t know less I want to risk disownment, I have to deflect dating questions effectively so a few members of my parish don’t suspect my sexuality and show hostility (since they have said negative things), and I wonder what my school fellowship group would say if they found out. I hate feeling like I’m treated like this wedge issue where I have to walk on eggshells while basically dealing with my problems on my own. I hate that I basically have to whitewash and omit things from my own testimonial less I offend someone for saying I am gay/ssa celibate (striving for chastity) Catholic.

I get frustrated that culture and even Christian culture treats marriage as a check box in life and that I’m viewed by some as ‘spiritually immature’ because I’m unmarried without children. I am frustrated at the lack of compassion by many (and seemingly some here) about the pain and grief that people like me have gone through over the realization that marriage isn’t in m vocation. I’m equally frustrated with the lack of support as I go through the struggles of lacking connection and non-sexual physical intimacy because society at large (and to some extent Christian culture) has equated love with romantic love and sex so much that I can’t even have a close hug with a friend without worrying it will scandalize someone.
 
You just told a chaste gay person that god is unhappy with them in the same way that god is unhappy with someone who chooses to cheat on their spouse, chooses to drink, or chooses to behave selfishly. The only choice the poster you’re addressing has made is to follow church teaching. If that’s to be compared to active mortal sin, then what hope is there?

If gay people should be kept out of the military, discriminated against in employment, barred from certain professions, and on and on with every other anti gay effort, then they just aren’t going to listen because the message is clear: “you are nothing more than your attractions and there is no room for you here”.
This ^^
is a nonsequitur.

Doesn’t address at all the comment that no Catholic should be calling gay people “evil”.
 
You just told a chaste gay person that god is unhappy with them in the same way that god is unhappy with someone who chooses to cheat on their spouse, chooses to drink, or chooses to behave selfishly.
Let me clarify: any disordered desire is…disordered and ought not be indulged.

When one indulges in it, then God is, indeed, unhappy with that choice…whether it’s to destroy one’s wedding vows, or to mouth off obscenities at one’s boss, or whether it’s to drink to oblivion…or…
 
I have no idea what you are talking about. You obviously misunderstood. In my dialogue the LGBT is the protagonist who’s position makes sense.
If you feel there is a lack of charity on the thread you can certainly report it. I’ve said nothing wrong, nor did I gaslight.

Slow down. Revisit the issue.
Yeah. I think he’s mistaken you for me. 😛
 
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