Your opinion on Posture for Reception of Communion

[fix]

Marie:

It just means the pastor has to be patient with those who have no idea what Norms are, nor respect for authority. Unlike a recalient child, he can’t refuse their little temper tantrum, but can explain to them nicely (later) why they are NOT suppose to do it if the Diocese has said NOT to.

Personally, I would pop em up along side the head to get their attention.

It does not mean any such thing. Are you arguing with Rome?

 

[Marie]

fix:

It does not mean any such thing. Are you arguing with Rome?

No…are you arguing with smilies? Humor is a nice way to say…get a life! Enjoy the faith, and stop gripping.

The Holier than thou posture never got anyone to heaven as far as we know.

 

[fix]

Marie:

No…are you arguing with smilies? Humor is a nice way to say…get a life! Enjoy the faith, and stop gripping.

The Holier than thou posture never got anyone to heaven as far as we know.

Whose griping? I am arguing a point. Is making a point now considered holier than thou?

This entire thread can be considered griping.

 

[Marie]

fix:

Whose griping? I am arguing a point. Is making a point now considered holier than thou?

This entire thread can be considered griping.

Yes, I would say it could. The thread doe’s nothing to build up the faith, but spends a lot of time and energy building up one’s self…for those so inclined. And more time trying to tear down the Authority of the Bishop’s and priest’s they don’t agree with.

Discussing and arguing are two different things. One builds up, the other tears down.

Reminds me of the story the Cure of Ar’s was attributed with telling. There was an old man who came to church everyday. The man spent hours in front of the blessed sacrament. He made no moves to show any particular reverence the Cure was familiar with.

One day, the Cure of Ar’s could stand it no longer…but at least he was diplomatic. He asked the man…“What are you doing sitting here all day long in front of the Blessed sacrament?”

The man answered…“I’m just looking at God, and He is looking back at me.”

The Cure was very humbled by the man…and quite ashamed of himself.

 

[fix]

Marie:

Yes, I would say it could. The thread doe’s nothing to build up the faith, but spends a lot of time and energy building up one’s self…for those so inclined. And more time trying to tear down the Authority of the Bishop’s and priest’s they don’t agree with.

Discussing and arguing are two different things. One builds up, the other tears down.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Marie]

fix:

Thanks for your opinion.

You are most welcome…Thanks for your opinion also.

 

[FrDavidStraut]

As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I always stand when receiving Holy Communion. I have been doing so for decades now and am quite comfortable with its reverence in the Orthodox Church.

I believe that the traditional Western posture for receiving Holy Communion - kneeling - is very reverent and worked well under the older circumstances that prevailed in the Western Church.

Big problems exist in the Roman Catholic Church today:
a) Churches deliberately designed (or remodeled) to make kneeling to receive practically impossible, and
b) hundreds of communicants at Masses which are scheduled so closely as to not allow adequate time for reception under the former circumstances.

The real problem is the vast majority of communicants approaching without any kind of recent sacramental Confession! If the only people who received Holy Communion were those that had been to Confession say in the last month, there would be so few communicants that they could easily be communed kneeling without time constraints.

 

[Prester_John]

Mysty101:

The Spirit of the Law, according to whom? Don’t you realize that you are putting your own interprestation ahead of the interpretation of the entire Conference of Bishops? There are not enough Priests for the great number of people to show their reverence individually----they must show it as a procession. Could they allow everyone to kneel by the casket of a saint?

Again pious according to whom? Is it more reverent to struggle to ones knees-possibly tripping someone, receive and struggle back to ones feet, then to receive in an orderly procession? Wouldn’t there be a big distraction, and concentration on trying to get down & up—distracting one from His Lord?

I answer this, though I am not quite sure of the direction of your argument. The Gospels. You may find the references I make there, and No, I will not quote. I don’t know you, you don’t know me, so suffice to say, I am not getting into any more trouble with God than I already am, by paraphrasing or quoting. I ask you to forgive my timidity, and look it up yourself.
I think you may not have read my posting very carefully, and I ask, my friend in faith, to re-read it, before answering.

Forgive me, I do not recognize the word, interprestation . In my own country, Canada, the Canadian Council of Catholic Bishops, are a body of venerable, and learned persons that do their very best to guide the faithful through these very troubling times. I do not understand your question… is this accusatory, stupid, rhetorical, or a relevant challenge , ie: a question to begin a legitimate debate? If the latter, and I am hoping such to be true, please post further.

As to the strange addition at the end of enquiry… what do you mean? There are many places available, where anyone can view the remains of venerable saints, on every continent of the earth. I do not know what you are referring to, and I mean no offense, but without some specifics, I cannot attempt an honest and articulate answer.
Your sincerely and respectfully,
Prester John

 

[Prester_John]

…We must pray for the full restitution of the Traditional Latin Mass, I am, and many as well that I speak to after our masses, that it is the only thing that can save the church. Once you change the mass and how people worship, you have defeated them. No matter what has ever taken place in history, we always defended the mass, but we allowed it ourselves to be thrown away. Pope Paul himself knew he made a mistake, it was he who said that he let Satan into the sacresty. The only problem today, with the altar rails gone, and with no more distinction and barriers, per Vatican II between the laity and the Priest, I dont think Satan can find where the sacresty is!

Forgive me, I don’t know the acronym GIRM. I grew up with the Latin Mass, and being Old, Inflexible, (a bit Stupid), and very sentimental…I wish, very much for the days when I was young, smart, knew how to solve all the worlds’ perfidies and problems…

Dear friend, I don’t think the Devil and all his legions could give the proverbial tinker’s damn about the where-abouts of the nearest altar rail. He Just doesn’t like us, period. He hates the Stations of the Cross. He hates the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. He despises Fidelity. He really hates truth. As a person that loves the ancient ways of our brothers and sisters now gathered into the arms of God, perhaps you can see my difficulty, in understanding this argument on this string…
My question is perhaps borne of mis-understanding, and the failure to see the point of the central argument, so please forgive me, and pray for my soul.

I ask, why is this a concern, standing, kneeling, prostrate? Ancient tradition, versus modern necessity, …or is this a last gasp of by-gone, Cold-War days? As I mentioned before, on this string, I have had the grace to recieve Him while undertaking many postures(physical). There have been so few of you that even write the name JESUS! into the paragraphs of your legitimate and well-articulated arguments that I really wonder what I am doing bothering to contribute at all… ?

Why, brother and sisters in Christ, is this so? The minutiae of our lives can catch us up in a whirwind of its own perpetuation, do we let it…is this an instance?

I have had the Grace to receive Him, many times, sometimes while standing. Am I a sinner? I think not, because God considers the circumstances and stations of each sinner, everywhere, and everywhen. (I am not going to quote from any one, any where or any when, but it is there in the Gospels, should a person with a little patience wish to look…)

My present station is to protect my country. I have been doing this job for quite a while now, and God recently tested me severely, by taking Home my most beloved, my son. Was it because I was distracted at Mass that day I met her… his mother, a beloved soul with a face of an angel, the 21st of the month back in 1981? Or …that I stood in Fire trench #5 to recieve Holy Communion from the Chaplain, that day in th “Former Yugoslavia?”, back in 1996?
I don’t for a minute think so. Not for a nanosecond!
I look at the posts on this string, and ( O LORD, I KNOW I HAVE ACTED AS A JACKASS IN THIS VERY PUBLIC FORUM, PLEASE FORGIVE ME), I am appalled at the lack of even a semblance of charity. Why? Why? If the arguments presented here are to be regarded as having even a shred of merit, of legitamacy, they must be grounded with a solid base of christian morals …and it begins in charity!
Stop this. Right now! Stop talking to each other like a bunch of belligerants, pining for war! We are supposed to be a family, the adopted family, by our baptism, of God Himself.
So be loving. Be considerate. Please, be charitable. I have learned from my own stupidity; I am not a colledge professor, or a doctor of theology, but even I can learn to be a better man, a better human, and try, at least, to be a good brother in Christ – to you who read my words.
If what I say hardens the hearts of some you, I think I have failed, but in light of the heartfelt cry of the one whom I chose to respond to, I say that if this is going to be the case, and some of you won’t or cannot listen, then truly our faith, our ancient way of beliving, is in grave peril, when Hate so disorients us, that we shun even our own family…

 

[Mysty101]

Prester John:

Forgive me, I do not recognize the word, interprestation . In my own country, Canada, the Canadian Council of Catholic Bishops, are a body of venerable, and learned persons that do their very best to guide the faithful through these very troubling times. I do not understand your question… is this accusatory, stupid, rhetorical, or a relevant challenge , ie: a question to begin a legitimate debate? If the latter, and I am hoping such to be true, please post further.

Mysty:

Don’t you realize that you are putting your own interprestation ahead of the interpretation of the entire Conference of Bishops?

Now it is I who wonders if you are sincere. The first underlined word is just a typo (misspelling) of the second.

Also–I did not realize that you are not under the authority of the USCCB, (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops) so this whole discussion does not pertain to you, unless there is a standing norm in your diocese, and you choose to kneel when there are no provisions, and you were instructed to stand.
(GIRM-General Instructions of the Roman Missal) is the official document which governs the Mass.)
Scripture -

(except for Mt 16:18And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades** will not overcome it.[c] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” )**really does not have any authority in procedure, since it is the the Church which establishes the rubrics (A rule or direction for the conduct of divine service, added in red to the liturgy.) of the Mass

As to the strange addition at the end of enquiry… what do you mean? There are many places available, where anyone can view the remains of venerable saints, on every continent of the earth. I do not know what you are referring to, and I mean no offense, but without some specifics, I cannot attempt an honest and articulate answer.

I was just comparing the reverent procession for the reception of Holy Communion to any other reverent procession. You would not be allowed to stop and kneel, if you were filing past a relic or remains. You might even be physically removed, if you attempted this.

 

[Mysty101]

My present station is to protect my country. I have been doing this job for quite a while now, and God recently tested me severely, by taking Home my most beloved, my son.

I am so sorry, and will remember you and your family in prayer. If you wish to share more of this most devasting sorrow, please do, either in the forum, or in private mail.
Love & Prayers,

 

[otm]

BulldogCath:

I must disagree here with the GIRM,

That is the same thing as saying you dissagree with the laws of the Church - that is what the GIRM is.

BulldogCath:

and there is such a thing in the church as following your conscience, and doing what you feel is correct.

Now that makes for an interesting bit of moral theology. It is called Relativism; if I don’t like the law I can disobey it because I ***feel *** different. Conscience is not king; conscience is that prompting to seek trught, and Truth. In essence, you are saying that because you feel something, you can substitute you feelings for the judgement of the Church.

But the Church teaches that a conscience must always be a conscience seeking truth. Your claims are the same lame claims made by those who use birth control. You might want to contemplate that for a while.

BulldogCath:

If kneeling was good for the better part of 19 centuries to receive our Lord, who the heck is it who came up that it is better to stand?

Lets start with those who have a little bit better historical perspective. You are off by a number of centuries. But hey, what’s a couple of hundred years here and there?
A tradition is a repeated process over time. There’s a new tradition.

BulldogCath:

Maybe they are out to lunch, and maybe they are really some liberal theologian. We are not Lemmings, and it is not like we are Luther here, we only want tradition and worship restored back to our church.

Can we say judegementalism? How dare you say that people who are standing for Communion are not worshiping? You are confusing the feelingyou get from worship wtih the act.

BulldogCath:

This entire concept of Communion in the Hand and standing and throwing out the altar rails and kneelers is Protestant. If you read any book on Luther and the reformation, the rewording of the consecration that is used in Mass today is almost identical to what Luther wanted, as well as make it a communal meal, with each person on line waiting for their handout.

Your lack of knowledge of liturgical history is showing. So is your lack of knowledge of Sacramental Theology. You might try learning, instead of castigating everything you don’t like because it doesn’t feelright.

BulldogCath:

We must pray for the full restitution of the Traditional Latin Mass, I am, and many as well that I speak to after our masses, that it is the only thing that can save the church. Once you change the mass and how people worship, you have defeated them. No matter what has ever taken place in history, we always defended the mass, but we allowed it ourselves to be thrown away.

Do you really have that little understanding of the contents of the Mass? The similarities between the Tridentine rite and the rite of Paul VI are way greater than the differences. Further, you show no knowledge of all the changes to the Tridentine rite since it was first promulgated after Trent. There are numerous liturgical rites within the Catholic Church, some of them much older than the Tridentine rite, some going back almost to the Apostles. And there are several rites, albeit minor, within the Roman rite that are still extent, and predate Trent. Your fixation on the Tridentine rite shows little understanding of what the Mass is really about.

 

[Catholicguy]

The best kept SECRET in the Newchurch is:
:***the reasons ***for this norm…"

I tried on multiple threads to get someone, anyone, even a priest to give clearly those reasons…dead silence.
Only one gave a proposed answer, indirectly from the document of VATII:

In Short: Ecumenism

****Ecumenism: The tearing apart of the INSIDE to gain acceptance from the OUTSIDE. (TNT)

---

 

[Catholicguy]

The best kept SECRET in the Newchurch is:
:***the reasons ***for this norm…"

I tried on multiple threads to get someone, anyone, even a priest to give clearly those reasons…dead silence.
Only one gave a proposed answer, indirectly from the document of VATII:

In Short: Ecumenism

****Ecumenism: The tearing apart of the INSIDE to gain acceptance from the OUTSIDE. (TNT)

---

The Living Magisterium, righlty, decides when a reform of the Liturgy is called for. If one of the reasons was to attract those lost sheep outside the fold, then that is admirable.

The Mass is the Mass is the Mass. It is the action of Christ offering Himself through the Priesthood He established.

In the Revised/Restored Liturgy, He is offering Himself to the Father on our behalf just like He has always done since the First Mass.

We Christian Catholics have always had one Mass. Many Liturgies, many Rites; one Mass.

Don’t let the “accidents” of the Mass obscure the Substance of the Mass - Jesus

 

[Mysty101]

Catholicguy:
Not sure what you are saying here—many reasons were given–if you choose not to accept them, that’s fine.

#159
Mysty101
Senior Member

Join Date: October 20, 2004
Posts: 940 Re: Your opinion on Posture for Reception of Communion

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Originally Posted by JakeW
Mysty101, otm gave it a shot at answering WHY… so why don’t you??

Mysty:

I did many times, did you bother to read my posts

#139

Did you even read any of my posts? I’ve answered you a few times.

Practical, also reverent procession, as opposed to less agile people .(which do account for far more than 3%) struggling to kneel and get up.

#126

TNT—Your post #120 was by far the most nausiating of all. The slam against Italians was really a nice touch.

Quote:
It was the arthritis epidemic in 1971. Wherein 1.7% (the crisis point) could not kneel.
Did I get it right?

Considering the number of over 50 members of the congregation, I’m sure the percentage is much higher, especially for the daily Mass attendees. An orderly procession to receive, and then kneeling on return is far more reverent then someone disrupting the whole procession by kneeling when everyone else is standing.

#40

No, but for the unity of posture and the reverent procession, all must be standing, especially since the kneelers can stand, while all the standees cannot kneel. You keep denying this reason in order to hurl some accusations at the Shepherds of the US.

#36

Your response is quite prejudiced against those who are not able to kneel easily. They are definitely a notable minority, and cannot accommodate the kneelers wishes. I believe the number who choose to kneel in a standing Parish is even smaller, and they could easily stand.

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[Prester_John]

Dearest;

Your were right, as to the word, interprestation, I was making fun. Thankyou, as usual, I now feel slightly ashamed. You will make someone a great mom today, and three generations from now, I expect to read about you in her saintly biography as a venerable catholic mother… I think you will be worth reading.
…As to the grief over my son, I irrationally started my own string, that now has mercifully, closed. I have saved every response to my C drive, for purely sentimental reasons.

This string is become very unruly and I don’t want to post here anymore. I agree, this is a great opportunity to post privately, and I invite you to continue, on a buddy list, or e-mail in private

Bless you and keep you,

The wierd guy who monikers

Prester John

(Below it says:

'Twas Brillig, and the Slithy toves
Didst Gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogroves,
And the Mome Wraiths, Outgrabe…)

 

[Prester_John]

Mysty101:

I am so sorry, and will remember you and your family in prayer. If you wish to share more of this most devasting sorrow, please do, either in the forum, or in private mail.
Love & Prayers,

I wanted to answer this apart from our wonderful argument, to say thankyou, becuse my recent post sounded general, insensitive, and a bit stupid.

Ok, a great bit insensitive, and a whole bunch stupid.

…and oddly lame.

Your quote from the Gospel, though I love it very much, was not the one in my mind when first I answered you. I suggest Luke,* then* John(and only much later – after at least one glass of Gin).
I am pleased to see that you are still fighting on, one articulate argument after another, and though I do not always aggree, I cannot but be compelled to think of you, as the Penultimate Feline’s whisker in good dialogue, precision logic, and frightening diatribe.

Yours very respectfully and sincerely,

Prester John

 

[maryprayforme]

'Twas Brillig, and the Slithy toves
Didst Gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogroves,
And the Mome Wraiths, Outgrabe…)

+JMJ+

Prester John,

One of my all time favorite poems, Jabberwocky.

 

[Mysty101]

Prester John:

I wanted to answer this apart from our wonderful argument, to say thankyou,
Prester John

And thank you, John,

Yes, I do love to discuss things out—whether we agree or disagree, it is best to have all the imput possible to come to the best conclusion.

(Naturally, it is best to obey your Shepherd )

Love & Prayers,

 

[maryprayforme]

Mysty101:

And thank you, John,

Yes, I do love to discuss things out—whether we agree or disagree, it is best to have all the imput possible to come to the best conclusion.

(Naturally, it is best to obey your Shepherd )

Love & Prayers,

MYSTY,

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MY SHEPHERD IS POPE JOHN PAUL II, UNDER WHOM ALL THE BISHOPS FALL. GET IT?