your opinions on gays

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goofyjim said:
The best way to help them is to encourage abstinence, not requiring them to change.
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Right. I guess I may have mis-stated something, so to clarify, I agree that if they are predisposed genetically, then they should do their best to avoid the sin (i.e., abstinence). If they fail, then they should go to Confession prior to receiving Communion.
 
rlg94086 said:
That is the most non-sensical thing you have written. “Heterosexual oriented person” and “heterosexual person” are exactly the same thing. If not, please tell me what a “heterosexual oriented person” is.

The reason the Archbishop used the term “oriented” in both cases is as I already explained. Both people are equally persons in the eyes of God and man (at least most of us).
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Is it necessary to insert the word “oriented” in order to convey the meaning that each of us are persons in the eyes of God? Why? Suppose we do not insert the word “oriented” would it make one not a person in the eyes of God? One would still be a person even without the word “oriented” inserted therein.

You asked what is a “Heterosexually oriented person”. The question should properly be addressed to the person who used that phrase. For to me, that phrase is the most non-sensical, to use your own word, thing that I have ever met.
rlg94086 said:
One has a heterosexual orientation (i.e. is attracted to the opposite sex). The other has a homosexual orientation (i.e. is attracted to the same sex), which is objectively disordered. However, that orientation is not a sin in and of itself. Lust and homosexual acts are sins.
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Attraction, in this discussion, is desire. A disordered sexual desire, as in the case of the homosexual, is lust. Why could you not accept that fact?
rlg94086 said:
If someone with a homosexual orientation remains chaste (i.e. does not lust or commit homosexual acts), then they are in a state of grace even though they find the same sex attractive and have no attraction to the opposite sex.
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One who maintains “disordered sexual desire” is lusting. I am not trying to insult anyone here. I am simply talking based on truths.
rlg94086 said:
The problem is with your definition of “turn away from homosexuality.” All of us would agree with you if you meant “live a chaste life regardless of your orientation,” but you seem to believe that a homosexually oriented person must rid themselves of desire for the same sex. This would be nice, but it may not be possible. .
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That desire, as I said, is “disordered sexual desire”. That makes it lust. Yes, I would say and agree with what you want: “live a chaste life regardless of your orientation.” As I said, when one says, “homosexually oriented”, the phrase simply has no sense. It means the person is simply not a homosexual.
 
agangbern said:
Is it necessary to insert the word “oriented” in order to convey the meaning that each of us are persons in the eyes of God? Why? Suppose we do not insert the word “oriented” would it make one not a person in the eyes of God? One would still be a person even without the word “oriented” inserted therein.

You asked what is a “Heterosexually oriented person”. The question should properly be addressed to the person who used that phrase. For to me, that phrase is the most non-sensical, to use your own word, thing that I have ever met.

Attraction, in this discussion, is desire. A disordered sexual desire, as in the case of the homosexual, is lust. Why could you not accept that fact?

One who maintains “disordered sexual desire” is lusting. I am not trying to insult anyone here. I am simply talking based on truths.

That desire, as I said, is “disordered sexual desire”. That makes it lust. Yes, I would say and agree with what you want: “live a chaste life regardless of your orientation.” As I said, when one says, “homosexually oriented”, the phrase simply has no sense. It means the person is simply not a homosexual.
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Okay have it your way. I’m not a homosexual. But I’m not a heterosexual either.
 
goofyjim said:
Okay have it your way. I’m not a homosexual. But I’m not a heterosexual either.
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Nonetheless, I am very sure you are a man. For the Lord God created only two kinds of human beings: MAN and WOMAN. You could be like Jesus Christ. He was not a homosexual and not a heterosexual either.
 
agangbern said:
Nonetheless, I am very sure you are a man. For the Lord God created only two kinds of human beings: MAN and WOMAN. You could be like Jesus Christ. He was not a homosexual and not a heterosexual either.
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How do you define man and woman? I violate most of those definitions.

Chromosomes, my genotype? I have a mixture of male and female chromosomes. Phenotype? I have a mixed phenotype, I am androgynous in appearance unless I work hard one way or another when I get dressed for the day. Hormonally? Again, I am mixed. I am between male and female if I don’t use modern medications, and God chose for me to be born this way.
 
pathia said:
How do you define man and woman? I violate most of those definitions.

Chromosomes, my genotype? I have a mixture of male and female chromosomes. Phenotype? I have a mixed phenotype, I am androgynous in appearance unless I work hard one way or another when I get dressed for the day. Hormonally? Again, I am mixed. I am between male and female if I don’t use modern medications, and God chose for me to be born this way.
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So, you mean to say you have two sexual organs: a vagina and a penis? (Please, no malice here.) Which organ is more dominant in you?
 
agangbern said:
So, you mean to say you have two sexual organs: a vagina and a penis? (Please, no malice here.) Which organ is more dominant in you?
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No, having both is exceedingly rare. What I have is still rare, but not nearly that rare.

I am physically mixed there as well, without going into too much detail, what I have functions as neither a penis nor a vagina. In the development of a male fetus, things start female and develop into a male with the additional of testosterone which is sparked by the Y chromosome. My development there is somewhere between point X and point Y.
 
pathia said:
No, having both is exceedingly rare. What I have is still rare, but not nearly that rare.

I am physically mixed there as well, without going into too much detail, what I have functions as neither a penis nor a vagina. In the development of a male fetus, things start female and develop into a male with the additional of testosterone which is sparked by the Y chromosome. My development there is somewhere between point X and point Y.
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Honestly, this is the first time I ever heard of this kind. Thank you for sharing this anew at this stage of my presence in CAF. Please bear with me for another question, ignorant I am indeed. When you urinate, which organ functions?
 
agangbern said:
Honestly, this is the first time I ever heard of this kind. Thank you for sharing this anew at this stage of my presence in CAF. Please bear with me for another question, ignorant I am indeed. When you urinate, which organ functions?
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I already explained how my organs function as much as I am willing to in such a public space, if you do some simple google searching for ‘intersex’ you will find out plenty about people like me. We are much more common than people believe.
 
pathia said:
I already explained how my organs function as much as I am willing to in such a public space, if you do some simple google searching for ‘intersex’ you will find out plenty about people like me. We are much more common than people believe.
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Can you give the link, please? I am very much interested about this phenomenon. And maybe my curiosity would be quenched quicker if you help me with links.
 
agangbern said:
Is it necessary to insert the word “oriented” in order to convey the meaning that each of us are persons in the eyes of God? Why? Suppose we do not insert the word “oriented” would it make one not a person in the eyes of God? One would still be a person even without the word “oriented” inserted therein.
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The word “oriented” is not used to convey that each of us are persons in the eyes of God. “Homosexually oriented” and “heterosexually oriented” are adjectives. Our personhood is not dependent on them.
You asked what is a “Heterosexually oriented person”. The question should properly be addressed to the person who used that phrase. For to me, that phrase is the most non-sensical, to use your own word, thing that I have ever met.
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It is only non-sensical to someone who refuses to accept Church teaching that the orientation itself is not a sin.
Attraction, in this discussion, is desire. A disordered sexual desire, as in the case of the homosexual, is lust. Why could you not accept that fact?
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Because it is 100% wrong. Attraction is not lust. If I find a woman attractive, I am not lusting after her. If a homosexually oriented man finds another man attractive, he is not lusting after him. Lust is a disordered desire for sex with another person.
One who maintains “disordered sexual desire” is lusting. I am not trying to insult anyone here. I am simply talking based on truths.

That desire, as I said, is “disordered sexual desire”. That makes it lust. Yes, I would say and agree with what you want: “live a chaste life regardless of your orientation.”
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Great. Now try to understand the difference between lust and attraction.
As I said, when one says, “homosexually oriented”, the phrase simply has no sense. It means the person is simply not a homosexual.
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Wrong. A homosexually oriented person does not lose their attractions by living a chaste life. They have achieved self-mastery over their passions. Don’t believe me? Ask a heterosexually oriented priest who is living a celibate life, if he no longer finds the opposite sex attractive.
 
There seems to be a prevailing opinion that homosexuals think about sex 24/7 and are in a near constant state of lust. (not just here at CAF, I’ve heard it all over) In my own experience, that just isn’t the case. Sure, I have my moments, but I’m more likely to sin in other ways besides lust-I’m more likely to gossip, more likely to be negligent in my spiritual life, more likely to be lazy and a host of other things more often than sinning in terms of sex.

Do heterosexuals think about sex a LOT more than I do and therefore assume that I think about it as often as they do? 🤷
 
agangbern said:
Nonetheless, I am very sure you are a man. For the Lord God created only two kinds of human beings: MAN and WOMAN. You could be like Jesus Christ. He was not a homosexual and not a heterosexual either.
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But then I just told a lie in that previous post so I guess I am not like Jesus Christ at all. I’d rather be honest about my temptations, which are not sins, than go through life lying to people.
 
Fitswimmer said:
There seems to be a prevailing opinion that homosexuals think about sex 24/7 and are in a near constant state of lust. (not just here at CAF, I’ve heard it all over) In my own experience, that just isn’t the case. Sure, I have my moments, but I’m more likely to sin in other ways besides lust-I’m more likely to gossip, more likely to be negligent in my spiritual life, more likely to be lazy and a host of other things more often than sinning in terms of sex.

Do heterosexuals think about sex a LOT more than I do and therefore assume that I think about it as often as they do? 🤷
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This is really what I keep wondering.👍
 
Fitswimmer said:
There seems to be a prevailing opinion that homosexuals think about sex 24/7 and are in a near constant state of lust. (not just here at CAF, I’ve heard it all over) In my own experience, that just isn’t the case. Sure, I have my moments, but I’m more likely to sin in other ways besides lust-I’m more likely to gossip, more likely to be negligent in my spiritual life, more likely to be lazy and a host of other things more often than sinning in terms of sex.
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Are you daring to say that people who have a homosexual orientation are otherwise the exact same as people who have a heterosexual orientation? That the only difference is the orientation of our attraction? That’s just crazy talk! :rolleyes: 😛

Btw…I think (I hope) that “prevailing opinion” may be an overstatement.
Do heterosexuals think about sex a LOT more than I do and therefore assume that I think about it as often as they do? 🤷
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Of course it varies by person (no matter what your orientation), so I can’t answer as a comparison to you particularly. But, in general? The same amount of time.
 
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