your opinions on gays

[LCMS_No_More]

Talking about gays constantly doing offensive acts towards the Church, have any of you have idea why the Church didn’t do anything about the gay group that got inside the church in San Francisco a couple of weeks ago dressed as nuns and partaking of the Sacrament?

I’m sorry, but what in the world is the CITY supposed to do about this? Yes, they did commit sacrelige by receiving the Sacrament outside of the state of grace (and they ARE Catholics - just not obedient ones).

That is not a job for the government to enforce, it’s the Church’s job. If you want the State to enforce what happens in a church, then you have to go all the way and accept a state church you might not agree with. Chances are, an American state church would be violently anti-Catholic.

Better to not go down that road.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

The City has the duty to enforce the laws against demonstrating INSIDE of a church.

Outside, well, that is practically a given. Inside is disruptive.

But then, that’s San Francisco. One day that place will be changed.

 

[KarenNC]

Talking about gays constantly doing offensive acts towards the Church, have any of you have idea why the Church didn’t do anything about the gay group that got inside the church in San Francisco a couple of weeks ago dressed as nuns and partaking of the Sacrament?

They were hardly “dressed as nuns” (or at least not any order of nuns I have ever seen) and snuck inside and did anything at all surreptitious. It was hardly a stealth situation.

Based on the video, they sat in the congregation, in full face makeup and very wild flamboyant outfits, walked quietly up, took from the Archbishop (who says he is familiar with the group but “didn’t realize” that these two gentlemen were part of it–must need a visit to the optometrist) and then sat back down, as well as stayed around for the coffee hour afterwards.

From other threads on this subject, it seems that this particular parish had been allowing this group, which raises funds for charity, to use their parish hall for monthly meetings.

 

[Bennie_P]

Hinduism is older than both Judaism and Christianity. Can you tell us how Judaism influenced Hinduism? Also, Gnosticism was influenced by Hinduism and is evidence of the Hndu influence in the mideast. Can you tell us if Hinduism influenced Judaism and early Christianity?

Keep in mind thet Hinduism had a trinity long before Christians came up with the idea. Hindu influence?

I didn’t say Hinduism came out Judaism, but the Judea morality has had an influence on Hinduism and I gave my example. The problem is not enough influence. I don’t believe Hinduism had an influence on early Christinity, except perhaps in the heresy of Gnosticsm, which the Church has rejected as heresy. Hinduism is having a very corrupting affect on it Christianity today, but I explained my spin on that idea already.

 

[FishMonger]

The City has the duty to enforce the laws against demonstrating INSIDE of a church.

Outside, well, that is practically a given. Inside is disruptive.

But then, that’s San Francisco. One day that place will be changed.

Did the church call the cops?

 

[Bennie_P]

Did the church call the cops?

Yea, but the Village People showed up instead.

 

[FishMonger]

I didn’t say Hinduism came out Judaism, but the Judea morality has had an influence on Hinduism and I gave my example. The problem is not enough influence. I don’t believe Hinduism had an influence on early Christinity, except perhaps in the heresy of Gnosticsm, which the Church has rejected as heresy. Hinduism is having a very corrupting affect on it Christianity today, but I explained my spin on that idea already.

OK. But why say Judaism influenced Hinduism? If mere proximity of knowlegable people is sufficient, than can’t the same argumant be made that Hindism influenced Judaism?

It is curious that Hinduism had a trinity thousands of years before Christianity existed.

 

[po18guy]

You’re all for what?

Confusion?
I have come to view same sex attraction (SSA) as being the “Cross to bear” that is given to some. Some crosses are obvious, others not. But, as in the case of the alcoholic, the compulsive gambler, the adulterer, the violent, etc. all are called to repentance: a turning away from sin-the acting out of the impulses, and toward Christ, our sinless example and Savior.

You are free to persist in your sinful behavior, and indeed many do, but at what eventual cost? Christ called all to turn from sin, to deny themselves and their selfish and worldly desires and follow Him. These is no sin in a sober alcoholic, a clean drug addict or a celibate homosexual.

It is not a sin to have SSA. Once you act on it, and submit to the desires of the flesh, sin attaches.

Christ’s peace be always with you.

 

[Bennie_P]

OK. But why say Judaism influenced Hinduism? If mere proximity of knowlegable people is sufficient, than can’t the same argumant be made that Hindism influenced Judaism?

It is curious that Hinduism had a trinity thousands of years before Christianity existed.

Not in same concept as viewed in Christianity. You need to start a new thread to continue this discussion.

 

[FishMonger]

Not in same concept as viewed in Christianity. You need to start a new thread to continue this discussion.

OK. But I don’t need a new thread to ask why proximity of people in India knowledgable about Judaism means Judaism influenced Hndusim, yet similar proximity of people in the mideast knowledgable about Hinduism did not influence Judaism.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

The City has the duty to enforce the laws against demonstrating INSIDE of a church.

Outside, well, that is practically a given. Inside is disruptive.

But then, that’s San Francisco. One day that place will be changed.

Were they interrupting the Mass or just walking up dressed as nuns to receive communion? And if they were obvious men dressed as nuns, WHY WERE THEY GIVEN THE SACRAMENT?

I don’t see this as anything more than an excuse to attack San Francisco. Politically, it’s a non-issue. Theologically, it’s horrible.

Just an aside, the “gay community” lives in a pretty small section of San Francisco. If you went to the Mission District or the Richmond or Sunset Districts, you’ll find pretty normal families living there. The Mission is predominantly Latino and the Avenues (Richmond and Sunset areas) are predominantly Asian families.

 

[Bennie_P]

OK. But I don’t need a new thread to ask why proximity of people in India knowledgable about Judaism means Judaism influenced Hndusim, yet similar proximity of people in the mideast knowledgable about Hinduism did not influence Judaism.

It was a remnant of Jews that went to India, not the other way around, besides I was talkng about Judea-Christian morality and its influences around the world, not being a recent event. I was not indicating nor suggesting Hinduism was a offshoot of Judiasm. but pointing out that the sexual morality as espoused by Judea-Christianity as we understand it has touched the whole known world to some societies dating back more then 2000 years up the majority of the world societies in the last 500 hundred years. And it is only recently that an all out assualt against and rejection of that morality is what we are witnessing as part of the current onslaught of the “gay” rights movement and relavitivism of sexual morality in general.

 

[rlg94086]

And who said that attraction is lust? Please don’t attempt to cram words into my mouth just to confuse the issues… What I said is this: “Disordered sexual desire” is lust! And homosexuality is “disordered sexual desire” hence it is lust!
That is the teachings of the Church, not my own opinion. There is no use attempting to bend or twist that truth.

I understand you have a different definition for homosexuality. The Catechism refers to homosexuality as “attraction.” It is also described as an “inclination.” You are correct that lust is “disordered sexual desire,” but you are incorrect in your definition of homosexuality.

The Church chooses words carefully when preparing a Catechism.

 

[po18guy]

Were they interrupting the Mass or just walking up dressed as nuns to receive communion? And if they were obvious men dressed as nuns, WHY WERE THEY GIVEN THE SACRAMENT?

I don’t see this as anything more than an excuse to attack San Francisco. Politically, it’s a non-issue. Theologically, it’s horrible.

Just an aside, the “gay community” lives in a pretty small section of San Francisco. If you went to the Mission District or the Richmond or Sunset Districts, you’ll find pretty normal families living there. The Mission is predominantly Latino and the Avenues (Richmond and Sunset areas) are predominantly Asian families.

I’m certainly no Bishop, but I would have given them a blessing and whispered a promise to speak with them after mass. Then, I would have spoken with them.

Christ’s peace.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Were they interrupting the Mass or just walking up dressed as nuns to receive communion? And if they were obvious men dressed as nuns, WHY WERE THEY GIVEN THE SACRAMENT?

I don’t see this as anything more than an excuse to attack San Francisco. Politically, it’s a non-issue. Theologically, it’s horrible.

Just an aside, the “gay community” lives in a pretty small section of San Francisco. If you went to the Mission District or the Richmond or Sunset Districts, you’ll find pretty normal families living there. The Mission is predominantly Latino and the Avenues (Richmond and Sunset areas) are predominantly Asian families.

I think the priest regretted giving Communion to those “nuns.” He was bewildered.

 

[KarenNC]

Were they interrupting the Mass or just walking up dressed as nuns to receive communion? And if they were obvious men dressed as nuns, WHY WERE THEY GIVEN THE SACRAMENT?

I don’t see this as anything more than an excuse to attack San Francisco. Politically, it’s a non-issue. Theologically, it’s horrible.

Just an aside, the “gay community” lives in a pretty small section of San Francisco. If you went to the Mission District or the Richmond or Sunset Districts, you’ll find pretty normal families living there. The Mission is predominantly Latino and the Avenues (Richmond and Sunset areas) are predominantly Asian families.

Well, here is the video youtube.com/watch?v=MrDbgjLKoxU

Personally, I find the Archbishop’s excuses a bit hard to swallow.

As for San Francisco, my 7 year old daughter and I spent a week travelling all over the city a few weeks ago. We used all different forms of public transportation and hit most of the areas of city. We had a fabulous time and found the folks there to be overall more hospitable and helpful to strangers than we found Boston last year. I would highly recommend it to anyone.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

So, just how do we explain to children why so many couple have only two kids?

Probably in the same way we explain to them that U.S. porn revenue exceeds the combined revenues of ABC, CBS, and NBC (6.2 billion).

Probably in the same way we explain to them that porn revenue is larger than all combined revenues of all professional football, baseball and basketball franchises. The pornography industry, according to conservative estimates, brings in $57 billion per year, of which the United States is responsible for $12 billion. (See here.)

I guess I don’t understand the intention or meaning or point of this question. The Catholic with eyes wide open can look around and see plenty that is out of synch with his or her faith.

 

[FishMonger]

It was a remnant of Jews that went to India, not the other way around, besides I was talkng about Judea-Christian morality and its influences around the world, not being a recent event. I was not indicating nor suggesting Hinduism was a offshoot of Judiasm. but pointing out that the sexual morality as espoused by Judea-Christianity as we understand it has touched the whole known world to some societies dating back more then 2000 years up the majority of the world societies in the last 500 hundred years. And it is only recently that an all out assualt against and rejection of that morality is what we are witnessing as part of the current onslaught of the “gay” rights movement and relavitivism of sexual morality in general.

As long as we say Judeo-Christian ideas touched the known world, I agree. That is far from being the standard of the world. All kinds of ideas touched the known world.

I really don’t see an assault against Judeo-Christian standards. It’s more of an indifference to certain ideas. And, since most of the J-C standards have also been developed by other philosophies, cultures, and religions they are not in danger.

 

[FishMonger]

Probably in the same way we explain to them that U.S. porn revenue exceeds the combined revenues of ABC, CBS, and NBC (6.2 billion).

Probably in the same way we explain to them that porn revenue is larger than all combined revenues of all professional football, baseball and basketball franchises. The pornography industry, according to conservative estimates, brings in $57 billion per year, of which the United States is responsible for $12 billion. (See here.)

I guess I don’t understand the intention or meaning or point of this question. The Catholic with eyes wide open can look around and see plenty that is out of synch with his or her faith.

I suppose I’d just tell the kid they are using artificial birth control. Why confuse him?

The question is an example of how one deals with a kid who asks about what some call disordered behavior. Maybe it’s gays, or maybe it’s the rest of the families at Church. Just tell him the simplest truth.

 

[blessedtoo]

They were hardly “dressed as nuns” (or at least not any order of nuns I have ever seen) and snuck inside and did anything at all surreptitious. It was hardly a stealth situation.

Karen, these transvestites are notorious in the neighborhood of Most Holy Redeemer Parish, where they committed this sacrilige. In fact, they WERE dressed to MOCK religious sisters and they call themselves the “sisters of perepetual indulgence”. The Pastor and Archbishop certainly knew who they were and so did the parishioners. There was nothing surreptitious because the Parish has been known as a “supporter” of the homosexual lifestyle. There are countless threads on CAF about the scandals this Parish has caused.

Based on the video, they sat in the congregation, in full face makeup and very wild flamboyant outfits, walked quietly up, took from the Archbishop (who says he is familiar with the group but “didn’t realize” that these two gentlemen were part of it–must need a visit to the optometrist) and then sat back down, as well as stayed around for the coffee hour afterwards.

I understand that you, as a non-Catholic, don’t realize or understand the sanctity of the Holy Mass. It’s clear that you don’t understand how the congregation is expected to present themselves when they approach the Blessed Sacrament. So your indifferent attitude about the way these men comported themselves in the Church is understandable. If their presence did not visilbly disrupt the Holy Mass, it has nothing to do with them and everything to do with the mercy (or apathy) of the congregation. I can assure you that had they the audacity to show up at my Parish (one that is faithful to the Church), they would have never gotten past the ushers.

From other threads on this subject, it seems that this particular parish had been allowing this group, which raises funds for charity, to use their parish hall for monthly meetings.

Correct. And several weeks before they pulled this stunt, the Archbishop revoked their lease to host porno-bingo in the Parish Hall. Can you say retaliation?