your opinions on gays

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Originally Posted by defenderoftruth
signed,
a mom whose very disturbed by homosexuals not being labeled RIGHTFULLY mentally ill and or demon possessed.
Not a very Catholic view of the issue. Have you read what the Catechism has to say on the subject?
Your waaaaaay back in the posts. I’m referring to homosexuals that love their sin not those that hate the inclination and struggle against it.
 
Yes Robert and my problem is not those that hate the inclination and want to be straight but those that have the inclination and say “well attraction isn’t a problem but acts are”. (like being attracted to sodomy/lesbianism is ok.) So is an adult ok that is “attracted” to children but doesn’t act on it? If they hate it and fight it, don’t dwell on it and want to be free of it I would say they aren’t sinning. But dwelling on their “attraction” to children thinking it’s ok as long as “they don’t act on it” isn’t.
I’m fine with that, as long as you understand that “inclination” and “lust” aren’t the same thing. The danger is that someone with an inclination will hate themself (something the devil intends). To struggle with an inclination toward sin is something almost all of us deal with. As you say, if we are fighting the sin that can proceed from the inclination (lust or acts) through prayer, confession, etc., then we are fighting the good fight.
 
No. As I said, the one described by defenderoftruth. Here:

Originally Posted by defenderoftruth View Post
I’m sick and tired of hearing “how dare you tell me I need to be delivered I’m just fine as long as I don’t act, you’re not being ‘compassionate’” (while they attend homosexual events that mock God, with naked/half naked people that relish homosexuality
).

And This:
Therefore, that particular pride event , as specifically described by defenderoftruth, is the one I am referring to. I don’t speak of other pride events. To say “a pride event” is not determinative of which pride event is referred to.
She was actually refering to those type of events in general, rather than a single event.

Back to your question, do I expect people to respect the indecency described?

Aside from the claim of naked/half naked people (which is a bit much for me and why you wont see me at a nudist beach), Im not really seeing the indecency.

If you find such events indecent, why go to them?
 
Where did I ever say this at all? Seesh, we are arguing the nuances of the english language, not church doctrine.
Here below is your post.

Originally Posted by pathia View Post
Look at any of the sticky topics, there are several of them covering the Catholic stance on homosexuality. Look at any of the answers the apologists here themselves have given.
The orientation is not a sin, having homosexual sex is. Maybe you are misunderstanding.


In substance, subject post in effect says that homosexual orientation or tendency is supported by the Church. Anyway, if this is not what you were trying to say, am sorry. And I would be the first to be thankful if it is true that you do not believe that the Church supports homosexual tendencies/orientation.
 
She was actually refering to those type of events in general, rather than a single event.

Back to your question, do I expect people to respect the indecency described?

Aside from the claim of naked/half naked people (which is a bit much for me and why you wont see me at a nudist beach), Im not really seeing the indecency.

If you find such events indecent, why go to them?
Maybe it was simply an accident that one happened to be there at the wrong place and wrong time. Just a guess. Nothing of that sort is done here in the Philippines, at least I have not witnessed one.
 
Maybe it was simply an accident that one happened to be there at the wrong place and wrong time. Just a guess. Nothing of that sort is done here in the Philippines, at least I have not witnessed one.
You might want to re-read her post, she goes to them intentionally.

They have some “gay events” around here (and a huge parade in Sydney), but they are mainly intergrated with community events such as a street party that is held every year (it is a fantastic multi-cultural experience with lots of bands/music, dancing, stalls and some fantastic food) because they are part of our community. So there really isnt a need for them to hold seperate events.

From my experience, gay people are pretty much like everyone else. There are some really nice homosexuals who are considerate, there are some homosexuals that are nasty and rude and there are your extremist homosexuals.

I have experienced the worst (accusations of discrimination over nothing) I have experienced some uncomfortable moments (some have tried to pick me up/proposition me in pubs, one sexually harrassed me at work to the point of where I had to physically confront him and tell him to stop because management did nothing to stop him even after I complained several times) and I have experienced some great moments (where some have been very helpful by listening to me whinge and offering some great advice, going out of their way to help me for no gain).

I never have problems with them at events (either gay or community based) and I dont go out of my way to see them.
 
Hi folks,

Well, my self-imposed ban from CAF has failed. I find that I need to post on a couple of issues…this being one of them.

Once again, we are having some difficulty distinguishing between inclination and sin. Please read this document from the US Bishops -

usccb.org/dpp/Ministry.pdf

Here is one excerpt I have in mind…
The excerpt maintains the following points:

Homosexual Inclination Is Not Itself a Sin

To the extent that a homosexual tendency or inclination is not subject to one’s free will, one is not morally culpable for that tendency.

"The homosexual inclination is objectively disordered, i.e., it is an inclination that predisposes one toward what is truly not good for the human person.

Now, we know that subject excerpt is simply an opinion of said US Bishops. With due respect to them, let us analyze the excerpt.

The excerpt begins with the declaration: Homosexual inclination is not itself a sin. Then they proceeded to back-up the declaration with a very “playing safe concept”, saying, “To the extent that a homosexual tendency or inclination is not subject to one’s free will,”. Clearly, the declaration rests on the assumption that homosexual inclination is beyond man’s free will to control. If so, then it could be said that the homosexual is a slave of homosexual inclination, he has no power over it, hence he is excused of his inclination. This opinion, in my opinion too, is false.
Inclination itself is defined as,
"*inclination
n 1: an attitude of mind especially one that favors one
alternative over others; “he had an inclination to give
up too easily”; “a tendency to be too strict” [syn: disposition,
tendency[/COLOR]] dict.die.net/inclination/

It is clear from the above definition that it is an attitude of mind, and that there are alternatives. Man can choose which among the alternatives he should set his mind to.

After they said that homosexual inclination is not a sin, the said bishops put forward the Church teaching that “homosexual inclination is objectively disordered”, but in respecting that teaching, they however softened down its being disordered with their personal theory of why it is considered disordered saying, “it is an inclination that predisposes one toward what is truly not good for the human person.” True indeed, it predisposes one toward what is truly not good. But is that really the reason of the Church for considering homosexual inclination as objectively disordered? No. For all we know, opinion could also be put forward that the reason why it is considered disordered is not only its predisposing effect but its being a state of mind which desires for sexual pleasure with the same sex. That act of desiring (for such) is morally disordered, hence that internal act is a sin.

The human person, of course, is always valuable and to be treated always with dignity. The sinner is distinct and different from the sin. Man must hate sin, but not the sinner.*
 
Ok well you all can argue about what’s “compassionate” or whether it’s a “disorder” or a disease and I’ll just say that Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that homosexuals aren’t going to be in the kingdom of God, furthermore he stated in the very next verse that some of them “were” but they’ve been washed sanctified. (no longer such)

Now when someone wants to commit sodomy, they aren’t playing with a full deck I don’t care if they are “attracted/tempted” or not. It’s sodomy for crying out loud! :eek: Their “attraction” is to what men, and…sodomy ie not normal, healthy or a sane thing. Not to mention women who dress, talk, walk, and act like men or men that do vice versa. That’s psychological and it’s frankly demonic (many start to look like men and some men like women because they have given demons a spot in their body to reek havoc)

I really don’t care what the APA says about homosexuality not being a “disorder/illness” it is. (GO TO A PRIDE PARADE SOMETIME) I have, to talk to them about their need for Jesus Christ and forgiveness and that they can change if they actually give up their desires to God. I’ve met former homosexuals who have no “attraction” to men/women and actually speak out against this mentality of “be temted just don’t act”. Someone that is tempted to molest children but doesn’t is still sick and in need to be delivered. (no I’m not pentacostal or protestant even) But I do believe in catholic exorcism!

I’m sick and tired of hearing “how dare you tell me I need to be delivered I’m just fine as long as I don’t act, you’re not being ‘compassionate’” (while they attend homosexual events that mock God, with naked/half naked people that relish homosexuality). It’s not compassionate to let someone live STUBBORNLY in sin or in temptation of sin without telling them they need to be delivered.

Sorry if this sounds rough but really c’mon stop the bleeding heart liberalism and deal with the truth! It is disordered. It isn’t normal. It isn’t Christian. It ISN’T compassionate to tell them well you can keep being tempted (thinking about sodomy/lesbianism) while you claim to be a Catholic while attending homosexual gatherings.

Not to slam on you goofyjim but really your attitude is “well there is nothing wrong with having a same sex attraction” dispite the church calling it disordered. So is the church wrong? I don’t think so. I don’t necessary think they choose to have those attractions ((I believe it is a psychological thing growing up possibly-but it must be overcome to have inner peace with God) except when pressed many stick up for temptations and defend them like it’s a normal thing and not a burden of great gravity. They however DO choose to act on them (homosexual acts) and many go to “pride” events that like the name implies it’s a good thing to be homosexual.
I have a peace you will never believe. And I still have SSA. It is my thorn in the flesh that God permits me to have to humble me.
 
The only thing we are required to overcome is sin. Since SSA alone is not a sin it need not be overcome.
 
The title, “your opinions on gays” opens up an enormous amount of activities

Gay adoption ; spread of AIDS; gays being Scout masters; gays upsetting parades as in NYC St. Patrick Parades; gays making a circus out of the Mass (recently San Francisco); some dioceses encourage gays to be admitted into seminaries (mine does); laws prohibiting free speech against the gay movement (hate speech).

Homosexuality is the most offensive form of behavior to God…He destroyed TWO cities because of it (the behavior).

In all, it is more the AGENDA that disturbs the society. Pedophiles such as NAMBLA (North Ameican Man Boy Love Assn.). If an entire society were forced to stand back and be prohibited from resisting the above it would be complete desolation
for the world.
 
You might want to re-read her post, she goes to them intentionally.

They have some “gay events” around here (and a huge parade in Sydney), but they are mainly intergrated with community events such as a street party that is held every year (it is a fantastic multi-cultural experience with lots of bands/music, dancing, stalls and some fantastic food) because they are part of our community. So there really isnt a need for them to hold seperate events.
When so-called “gay events” are allowed to be integrated with community events then most probably such"gay events" were envisioned to be wholesome and done with decency. In that case there would be nothing revolting in them. It would be different story when the original wholesome vision of the organizers of the community events is unexpectedly intentionally corrupted by some gays.
I have experienced the worst (accusations of discrimination over nothing) I have experienced some uncomfortable moments (some have tried to pick me up/proposition me in pubs, one sexually harrassed me at work to the point of where I had to physically confront him and tell him to stop because management did nothing to stop him even after I complained several times)
Human rights are natural rights of every man. Recognizing this natural law, the civil law categorically says, “Every person must, in the exercise of this rights and in the performance of his duties, act with justice, give everyone his due, and observe honesty and good faith.” Therefore, in every instance where one’s right is violated, he has always a right to seek redress. That is equal to all. No need of a special law for non-special people.
 
The title, “your opinions on gays” opens up an enormous amount of activities

Gay adoption ; spread of AIDS; gays being Scout masters; gays upsetting parades as in NYC St. Patrick Parades; gays making a circus out of the Mass (recently San Francisco); some dioceses encourage gays to be admitted into seminaries (mine does); laws prohibiting free speech against the gay movement (hate speech).

Homosexuality is the most offensive form of behavior to God…He destroyed TWO cities because of it (the behavior).

In all, it is more the AGENDA that disturbs the society. Pedophiles such as NAMBLA (North Ameican Man Boy Love Assn.). If an entire society were forced to stand back and be prohibited from resisting the above it would be complete desolation
for the world.
It is no more appropriate to label all homosexuals as pedophiles on the basis of the existence of NAMBLA than it is to so label all Catholics because of the known actions of some clergy.

Which laws prohibit free speech (such as exhibited daily on this forum) against homosexuals? How do you explain that that police are not at your door at this moment because of this “crime”?

What is your basis for homosexuality being the “most offensive form of behavior to God”? The Bible is full of stories of God destroying many cities and ordering genocide for many reasons, most predominantly it seems in order to give the land to the Israelites. God sent a bear to maul a bunch of children for calling his prophet “Baldy”. I don’t see that homosexuality has any particular claim to fame above other behaviors that are classified as sins.
 
When so-called “gay events” are allowed to be integrated with community events then most probably such"gay events" were envisioned to be wholesome and done with decency. In that case there would be nothing revolting in them. It would be different story when the original wholesome vision of the organizers of the community events is unexpectedly intentionally corrupted by some gays.
It would be a different story if any community group did that, not just gays.
Human rights are natural rights of every man. Recognizing this natural law, the civil law categorically says, “Every person must, in the exercise of this rights and in the performance of his duties, act with justice, give everyone his due, and observe honesty and good faith.” Therefore, in every instance where one’s right is violated, he has always a right to seek redress. That is equal to all. No need of a special law for non-special people.
I dont get what you are talking about. Are you refering to the sexual harassment bit?
 
It would be a different story if any community group did that, not just gays.
Yes, it is applicable to all human beings. It is not necessary that one be so-called “gay”. In fact, it is better that we totally erase the word “gay” from the dictionary so that there would be only MALE and FEMALE human beings.( As used in this thread, “gays” are males who do not accept that they are males, right?)
I dont get what you are talking about. Are you refering to the sexual harassment bit?
As I previously quoted, I was referring to the so-called “worst experience” that you had among your equal human beings.
 
The excerpt maintains the following points:

Homosexual Inclination Is Not Itself a Sin

To the extent that a homosexual tendency or inclination is not subject to one’s free will, one is not morally culpable for that tendency.”

"The homosexual inclination is objectively disordered, i.e., it is an inclination that predisposes one toward what is truly not good for the human person.

Now, we know that subject excerpt is simply an opinion of said US Bishops. With due respect to them, let us analyze the excerpt.

The excerpt begins with the declaration: Homosexual inclination is not itself a sin. Then they proceeded to back-up the declaration with a very “playing safe concept”, saying, “To the extent that a homosexual tendency or inclination is not subject to one’s free will,”. Clearly, the declaration rests on the assumption that homosexual inclination is beyond man’s free will to control. If so, then it could be said that the homosexual is a slave of homosexual inclination, he has no power over it, hence he is excused of his inclination. This opinion, in my opinion too, is false.
Inclination itself is defined as,
"inclination
n 1: an attitude of mind especially one that favors one
alternative over others; "he had an inclination to give
up too easily"; “a tendency to be too strict” [syn: disposition,[/COLOR]
tendency
] dict.die.net/inclination/

It is clear from the above definition that it is an attitude of mind, and that there are alternatives. Man can choose which among the alternatives he should set his mind to.

After they said that homosexual inclination is not a sin, the said bishops put forward the Church teaching that “homosexual inclination is objectively disordered”, but in respecting that teaching, they however softened down its being disordered with their personal theory of why it is considered disordered saying, “it is an inclination that predisposes one toward what is truly not good for the human person.” True indeed, it predisposes one toward what is truly not good. But is that really the reason of the Church for considering homosexual inclination as objectively disordered? No. For all we know, opinion could also be put forward that the reason why it is considered disordered is not only its predisposing effect but its being a state of mind which desires for sexual pleasure with the same sex. That act of desiring (for such) is morally disordered, hence that internal act is a sin.

The human person, of course, is always valuable and to be treated always with dignity. The sinner is distinct and different from the sin. Man must hate sin, but not the sinner.

The Bishops are correct in their statements IMHO. “Objectively disordered” does not mean “sin.” And, “inclinations” does not equal an active “desire” from free will. We don’t have control over our inclinations. What we do have control over is our reaction to those inclinations (entertaining thoughts, physical actions). With prayer, therapy, etc., the inclinations may eventually go away or subside, but they themselves are not sin. Through self-mastery, however, we can control our reaction to inclinations. That is what the Church calls us to do.

You are, of course, allowed to reject the analysis of the Bishops. However, I have asked you several times for analysis from anyone with authority in the Church that matches your opinions, and you have supplied none.
 
LOL!!! This just cracks me up!! Eleven pages of everyone carrying on when the OP has hardly said more than 12 words in this whole thread!

Just an observation - I think it’s interesting how folks will get going on something and totally forget how they got to the party. :rolleyes:

~Liza
 
LOL!!! This just cracks me up!! Eleven pages of everyone carrying on when the OP has hardly said more than 12 words in this whole thread!

Just an observation - I think it’s interesting how folks will get going on something and totally forget how they got to the party. :rolleyes:

~Liza
Well the OP’s words were " i just wanna see some opinions." Why do you feel that “eleven pages” of opinion are wrong? 🤷

Never mind, don’t answer that, because it is off-topic. If you have an opinion to offer, please join us. Your “observation” really doesn’t add anything to the OP’s request.
 
The Bishops are correct in their statements IMHO. “Objectively disordered” does not mean “sin.” And, “inclinations” does not equal an active “desire” from free will. We don’t have control over our inclinations. What we do have control over is our reaction to those inclinations (entertaining thoughts, physical actions). With prayer, therapy, etc., the inclinations may eventually go away or subside, but they themselves are not sin. Through self-mastery, however, we can control our reaction to inclinations. That is what the Church calls us to do.

You are, of course, allowed to reject the analysis of the Bishops. However, I have asked you several times for analysis from anyone with authority in the Church that matches your opinions, and you have supplied none.
Certainly you know that truth is not a matter of which has the majority of similar opinions. You have read what is meant by inclination:
"inclination
n 1: an attitude of mind especially one that favors one
alternative over others; “he had an inclination to give
up too easily”; “a tendency to be too strict” [syn: disposition,
tendency]
dict.die.net/inclination/

It is not true that man has no control of his inclination. He has the alternative or choice whether to be inclined this way or that way. To be inclined to evil or to be inclined to God. Mastery of himself in the spirit of God will do the wonders.
 
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