M
Mrs_Sally
Guest
Trouble is, the examples I’ve seen have all been *group *efforts. I guess they’d have to draw straws.
- Status
E
ElToro
Guest
I was thinking another very important reason (at least in my parish) are the terribly entrenched liturgical insiders who quite frankly do horrible jobs. What’s the first thing some say when you make mention of that?
Stop whining and get involved! I am sure they would welcome the help!
No way! Just try to offer your help – as my friends and I have and see what sort of response you get – if you get one at all. The bunker mentality and the “preserve one’s turf at all costs” is stunningly sicko. Yes, I know it’s ultimately a pastoral issue but the latest crew has been entrenched for 3-4 pastors and the current pastor seems almost afraid of making changes. The end result is they doo their ministries poorly and in many areas things simply don’t get done at all.
I sit there with a bulletin in my lap. We have paid and voluteers for: RCIA and Altar Servers, Youth Ministry, Faith Formation Coordinator, Pastoral Care Ministry, Bereavement Ministry, Gift Shop Manager, Music Ministry, Liturgy Coordinator, Environment coordinator, Lector/Eucharistic Ministries, Landings Program, Social Justice Ministry and others.
With the exception of the Music Director, I really don’t want to come in contact with any of them. Their collective ignorance and arrogance and particularly their turf fighting is odious. They are also terribly over-matched by the local Protestant counterparts yet they continue to pull my parish down.
The big bruhahha right now is that the “Bereavement Ministry” was just created (not sure how it differs from the Pastoral Care ministry – they used to be one in the same) and a coordinator was chosen without advertising the position within the parish. It went to an insider as did the replacement Faith Formation Coordinator position which also was not advertised.
These people do a great deal to pull my parish down…
Stop whining and get involved! I am sure they would welcome the help!
No way! Just try to offer your help – as my friends and I have and see what sort of response you get – if you get one at all. The bunker mentality and the “preserve one’s turf at all costs” is stunningly sicko. Yes, I know it’s ultimately a pastoral issue but the latest crew has been entrenched for 3-4 pastors and the current pastor seems almost afraid of making changes. The end result is they doo their ministries poorly and in many areas things simply don’t get done at all.
I sit there with a bulletin in my lap. We have paid and voluteers for: RCIA and Altar Servers, Youth Ministry, Faith Formation Coordinator, Pastoral Care Ministry, Bereavement Ministry, Gift Shop Manager, Music Ministry, Liturgy Coordinator, Environment coordinator, Lector/Eucharistic Ministries, Landings Program, Social Justice Ministry and others.
With the exception of the Music Director, I really don’t want to come in contact with any of them. Their collective ignorance and arrogance and particularly their turf fighting is odious. They are also terribly over-matched by the local Protestant counterparts yet they continue to pull my parish down.
The big bruhahha right now is that the “Bereavement Ministry” was just created (not sure how it differs from the Pastoral Care ministry – they used to be one in the same) and a coordinator was chosen without advertising the position within the parish. It went to an insider as did the replacement Faith Formation Coordinator position which also was not advertised.
These people do a great deal to pull my parish down…
E
ElToro
Guest
ex.I agree. I am all for the First Communicants making some concrete sign of the sacrament they are preparing for. I just don’t think they need to hang in the church forever after. Best place for them would be the parish hall during the donuts after Mass and then the DRE’s office.
I have never noticed banners as such in Eastern/Orthodox churches. What are they really called do you know? I’d like to see some examples.
churchitems.gr/products1.php?id=40
M
Mrs_Sally
Guest
Very beautiful! Thanks for the link.
A
At_Trent
Guest
Right. Answer ?
The EF with the Chant and Sacred Polyphony (return to the Sacred)
Sermons on Hell, the Sacraments, the Virtues, sins against the Holy Spirit, etc
and… see my signature
(build faith in the Real Presence)
E
ElToro
Guest
My apologies but the EF is no silver bullet – far from it. That much I know. I suspect it would drive many, many more people away then it would attract if heck froze over and it once again became the normative form of the Mass in the Latin Rite.Right. Answer ?
The EF with the Chant and Sacred Polyphony (return to the Sacred)
Sermons on Hell, the Sacraments, the Virtues, sins against the Holy Spirit, etc
and… see my signature
A
At_Trent
Guest
Sure about that ?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=454571
From day one, over 70 % said yes ! Doesn’t prove anything, but it certainly doesn’t appear anyone already has their mind made up they would reject the EF
S
Swiss_Guy
Guest
Not all (practicing) Catholics post on CAF.
E
ElToro
Guest
Yep. Your data is hardly representative of the USA let alone the world. It’s representative of people who visit CAF – a highly skewed sample.
S
Swiss_Guy
Guest
Skewed to the TFL side. Too conservative here. Personally, it wouldn’t really make that much of a difference to me, but I’d like to be able to understand the Mass. So I’d prefer it in English.
A
At_Trent
Guest
I’d say very few do, so I agree.
E
ElToro
Guest
Indeed. Not only are the numbers too small to derive any useful statistics that can be applied on a national or international level, they are also highly skewed. Those that visit and post on CAF are FAR MORE LIKELY to appreciate the EF Mass. I’m actually a little shocked that it’s only 70% I would have expected 90%+ for this small population.
E
ElToro
Guest
I wouldn’t use the word “conservative” but yes, it is a highly skewed population.Skewed to the TFL side. Too conservative here. Personally, it wouldn’t really make that much of a difference to me, but I’d like to be able to understand the Mass. So I’d prefer it in English.
T
TimothyH
Guest
Maybe God sent a few million Mexican’s devoted to Our Lady of Guadalupe the US to save the Church in the US from itself.
-Tim-
A
At_Trent
Guest
Then you would be one who would not agree that the EF and OF are two forms of the same liturgy ? Would you say that the theology of the EF is not the same as the theology of the OF ?Skewed to the TFL side. Too conservative here. Personally, it wouldn’t really make that much of a difference to me, but I’d like to be able to understand the Mass. So I’d prefer it in English.
If the answer is no to both questions, then how do you propose to convince us you understand the OF, but wouldn’t understand the EF ?
I have a couple other questions, but for now, please share your thoughts.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Well, you have all of it in English, and how did this make better the understanding of the Mass? How is transubstantiation recognized? And how is this different from the Mass as it’s said by Protestants?Skewed to the TFL side. Too conservative here. Personally, it wouldn’t really make that much of a difference to me, but I’d like to be able to understand the Mass. So I’d prefer it in English.
S
Swiss_Guy
Guest
It generally is though if you go over to the politic area/world news.
A
At_Trent
Guest
It’s not my data, it’s the opinions/answers of the CA membership, and I posted it here instead of TC.
And, I’m not sure you saw my disclaimer I added. I suppose you might have jerked a knee before I could edit my post lol.
Also, if the poll was heavily on the “no” side, you’d be going " SEE ? SEE ? :extrahappy:"
Now wouldn’t you ?
S
Swiss_Guy
Guest
What I mean is that I don’t understand Latin (until this year I didn’t know what in excelsis Deo meant - and we sing those words at Christmas each year). BUT, please keep in mind that I’ve never been to a non-English Mass, so I don’t know what that’s like. And I’ve only been to one Mass in my life that I can remember.
A
At_Trent
Guest
here is the continuation of my post 135Skewed to the TFL side. Too conservative here. Personally, it wouldn’t really make that much of a difference to me, but I’d like to be able to understand the Mass. So I’d prefer it in English.
Does “understand the mass” mean understanding the words in your opinion ? Or does it mean understanding what the priest is doing on the altar ?
You see, I don’t buy this reasoning of not speaking Latin being an impediment to understanding the Mass. Understanding it means understanding what is happening on the Altar.
When the new Roman Missal is put into use, will there not be people in the pews reading from missalettes ? How is that any different than reading the English translation in a EF missal ?
The only honest excuse for not being able to follow along and pray the EF with the priest is an unwillingness to exert the effort to handle and read a missal. And that’s fine, if people would just be honest and say it. "It seems like too much trouble, therefore, I’d rather attend a vernacular OF " Again, that’s fine. The Church says it’s ok.
But please, stop with the myths and falsehoods of the EF being too difficult to understand because of the Latin.
- Status