You're the Church. Young people are leaving in droves. What do you do?

[GordonP]

The reason they do that is probably because they can then claim that these non-Catholic teachers are exempt from non-discrimination laws which otherwise might apply to them if they were officially considered to be staff instead of Catholic ministers.

That is indeed the reason. It’s working it’s way up the court system now, and will probably end up before the supreme court at some point. My guess is that even the conservatives on the court will not be willing to favor such an overreaching concept of ministerial exemption.

 

[Thorolfr]

From some of the articles I was reading on the Brebeuf Jesuit Preperatory case, administrators are considered to be “ministers” as well which seems like an even bigger stretch. A few years ago, I helped put together an employee handbook for a Lutheran church, and only ordained clergy where considered to be ministers of any sort. All the usual civil laws on employment discrimination, sexual harassment, etc. were seen as applying to all other employees.

 

[Vico]

Vico:

PatK63:

The church needs to clearly define its teaching on homosexuality. Define how we love the sinner while hating the sin. Youth go to college and meet peers who have same sex attraction and accept them. They believe the church is being unfair.

We need to be able to explain that we don’t make the rules, God does, while accepting the sinner.
It would help if we could explain where SSA comes from. It is not an easy fix!

I think that was done in the Catechism:

But the Catechism doesn’t do the last one, it doesn’t “explain where SSA comes from.”

True, 2357 states only that “Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.” The Catechism focuses instead on behavior and willful thoughts that are sinful.

 

[glencor63]

I can’t understand who would be offended by this post. It was flagged out of pettiness and hatred. I used Gospel music as an example of how the Catholic Church can evangelize. The Festival of Mary of Guadeloupe incorporated indigenous symbols, dress, and music. I know it was not you. I seriously question this forum. Debate is important for spiritual growth. Peace!

"The rock band is a great evangelism tool. We have to meet people where they are spiritually. Gregorian chant is a western musical art form. Gospel music is unique to the African-American experience. You cannot evangelize African Americans without an understanding of how they worship historically in America. If you were to ban all forms of music, save Gregorian chant you would lose millions of potential converts. Christian rock, scripture, the cathechism, and a dynamic priest could make the difference between a child remaining Catholic, becoming Protestant, or rejecting Jesus altogether.

 

[Sean]

It wasn’t me I am not one to flag post I don’t flag post unless it is a truly offensive topic I don’t know why but lately there has been quite s bit of unnecessary flagging.

 

[glencor63]

These are other posts that were flagged. They aren’t offensive. I let the Holy Spirit speak through me. Again, I know it was not you. Peace!

“Many people did remain Catholic because of fear in the past. There was a real fear that the Catholic hierarchy could keep you out of heaven if you said or did anything displeasing. Clericalism was and is still a real problem. To challenge a priest was viewed as challenging God. Fear of family and community ostracism kept people in the Church. It’s no different than why many Jews never consider Christ’s messianic claims.”

“What is the point of obedience if you don’t know the word of God? You can be obedient to the Catholic hierarchy and still not know God. You can keep all the rules, laws, and ordinances and still not know Jesus Christ. Studying scripture is not optional. The word of God is essential to understanding your purpose in the world. Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of God. People perish from a lack of knowledge.”

 

[OnAJourney]

Personally, if I had this cross, I would not use the term ‘gay’, because it defines one by their sexual appetite.

I disagree. It’s possible to separate attraction from action. There are other Catholics in my position that agree with me. And that’s something I think millennials that were raised Catholic and left would like to see from the Church. The way the topic is framed is important.

I am a teenager in a world that is so hard to be chaste in. Do you ever ‘fall down and get back up again’ with chastity, so to speak or do you by the grace of God manage to never give in?
Regardless, you must be so very holy.

Being honest? Yes, I do fall down. It’s a day to day struggle I have to work with. I’m 23, at the start of my adult life and all around me I see my friends and family getting married or engaged. I desire a companion to live celibately with and to help support me when I’m feeling very low because of my depression and anxiety. A lot of Catholics on one hand will tell me I can’t have that because it’s a relationship, and then a bunch of Catholics on the other side of me will tell me I’d be creating scandal. I don’t think of myself as being very holy. I think of myself as being very flawed and sometimes I’m not the best of Catholics out there. I’m navigating through a very complex and confusing world

 

[Sean]

Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ

 

[Vico]

What, if anything, might the Church do to slow or reverse this trend?

They must believe, so we must provide witness, fasting, prayer, alms, and charitable works.

Luke 16

25 And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted and thou art tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you cannot, nor from thence come hither. 27 And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee that thou wouldst send him to my father’s house, for I have five brethren, 28 That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. 29 And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets. Let them hear them. 30 But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance. 31 And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

The divorce was in the past. The gay marriage is current and ongoing, requiring the couple to split.

But the remarriage is ongoing. If they had evidence that they were going to validate or get an annulment then fine, but otherwise it’s basically the same.

 

[Convert3]

As I stated earlier, she needs to get an annulment and from a report I heard, she has started the process.

 

[Alightforalltosee]

I assure you no teenager thru their 20s is flocking to the catholic church bc theres a christian rock band, we are looking for ways to appeal to my generation not repel them! The point here is that isnt what people my age are looking for esp in Catholicism

 

[Alightforalltosee]

You got this! You’re not alone! Also rely on God when the devil persuades you to anxiety and depression. You are not those thoughts nor those feelings. Learning the discernment of spirits will help

 

[Alightforalltosee]

I feel you on this 10/10. 100%. I went to an adoration last week held in the chapel and there was piano, guitar, and a man singing the whole time and I was like… God bless this church. It was disruptful to the peace and beauty that adoration could create. I still felt like gregorian chant would’ve been permissible

 

[Sean]

I agree o salutaris and the tantuum ergo are fine even certain English hymns are ok like holy God we praise Thu name

 

[OnAJourney]

I know God views me as and everyone else as someone with value as products of his creation; but it’s hard at times to carry on. And I think that’s something the Church really needs to get on top of. Millennials like me are lost and unsure of where we belong. Sometimes I even wonder if I can call myself a Catholic as a convert that didn’t even grow up going to church of any denomination despite my parents being brought up as church goers.

 

[JanetF]

I’m navigating through a very complex and confusing world

Aren’t we all? Not to minimize your situation, but that last line really says it all.

 

[edwest211]

Can you be more specific about whatever issues you think need to be addressed?

 

[OnAJourney]

For people like me it’s a sense of identity and belonging. We don’t know where we belong and the Church while a positive influence doesn’t really seem to have an answer that can really grip more millennials like me. I’m Catholic, but most of millennial peers are not. They think the church is a closed off body that is unwelcoming to outsiders and newcomers.

For millennials that are gay they see the Church as being hostile to their mere existence because poorly catchacized Catholic laity don’t know what the catechism says or haven’t read what Humanae Vitae says. I think that’s an issue of evangelization, which means the Church needs to change tact in how it interacts with the laity on the issue.

So to sum it up; millennials are craving identity and the Church isn’t offering a compelling case for it. And laity are turning people away with poor catechesis.

 

[steve-b]

Reference: Ireland, Quebec, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Austria, Brazil, Mexico, etc. People don’t stay Catholic out of Tradition anymore. They don’t stay Catholic out of “obedience”. **People stay Catholic because they believe what the Church claims is true.

True

glencor63:

Millions don’t believe the claims and have left.

True again

glencor63:

The question is why don’t they believe and what can the Catholic Church do to prove its claims.

The best example I can give is from an episode Jesus had with His disciples (including the 12). HERE

Jesus, God in the flesh, was doing the teaching. And most left Him because they didn’t buy what He was saying. Imagine, telling God to His face, I don’t believe THAT nor CAN I believe THAT. So Long Jesus.

Jesus knew in advance, before He said a word to them, they didn’t believe. And because of free will, which He gave every human, He let them go. He didn’t go after them.

As Aquinas said, a person with faith no explanation is necessary, however one who has no faith, no explanation is sufficient.

So to your questions,

Q:​

1. Why don’t they believe?
2. What can the Church do to prove its claims

Using Jesus case, in His bread of Life Discourse

A:​

1. faith is the issue.Since faith doesn’t come from us, it is a gift from God, so one has to ask for faith if they don’t have it. And as Peter taught, once a person has faith, don’t sit on it. Instead Peter taught we need to add 7 attributes to out faith in ever increasing amounts, as in don’t stop, or one will fall. HERE
2. It’s already done. AND, taking Peter’s 2nd point, “knowledge” (and read Catholic Church history and scripture, that goes back 2000 yrs.

From the Greek study bible

Acts 9:31 the church throughout all , universal ἐκκλησία καθ’ ὅλης τῆς
ἐκκλησία,= ekklésia = church ,
καθ’, = kata = according to ,
ὅλης, = holos = whole / all / universal ,
τῆς, = ho = the ,
= the Kataholos Church = the Catholic Church.

Acts was written ~ 70 a.d.

The name Catholic Church is also used by

Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch. Bishop from ~69 a.d. to ~107 a.d. ordained by the apostles, and direct disciple of St John. It was in Antioch where the disciples were first called Christian Acts 11:26 Acts 11:26 RSVCE - and when he had found him, he brought - Bible Gateway Ignatius in his writings uses both “Christian” and “Catholic Church”, (Christian) in (ch 2) and Catholic Church in (ch 8). From his Epistle to the Smyrnæans, Christians ch 2, Catholic Church ch 8. He also writes schismatics won’t be going to heaven, from his Epistle to the Philadelphians (ch 3).

etc…etc