‘It Is Not a Closet. It Is a Cage.’ Gay Catholic Priests Speak Out

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OraLabora said:
The homily is meant to be a teaching on the daily readings, and if the readings don’t address the topic of homosexuality, it is inappropriate to bring it up. Just as inappropriate as making the whole homily an appeal for funds to fix the leaky roof.

How else are we to deepen our comprehension of scripture if homilies don’t address scripture?

It’s in the rubrics.
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Is that a rule of thumb basically, just the way it is suppose to be because to me, it does seem like sermons can wonder some and I probably rarely here the old testament readings referred to in a sermon.

I know some protestant churches make the sermons available online to read, generally, I haven’t seen this in the Catholic church though, I’m sure it does occur.
 
ralfyman said:
According to this source, the number of priests declined slightly but the Catholic population doubled.
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Meanwhile the number of Russian Orthodox priests and Churches is increasing dramatically. About 6000 Churches in 1991, 30,000 churches in 2011, 36000 churches in recent days. BTW, Russian Orthodox priests are allowed to be married before the ordination.
 
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We also see a large number of vocations in Traditional Orders. As part of a solution to the current crisis, all aspects of the Church need to be looked into. It is long past time to attempt to continue to ignore the truth. The past 50 years have been a train wreck. Lets have an honest discussion about why, where we went wrong, and fix this while we still can.
 
DMorgan56 said:
We also see a large number of vocations in Traditional Orders. As part of a solution to the current crisis, all aspects of the Church need to be looked into. It is long past time to attempt to continue to ignore the truth. The past 50 years have been a train wreck. Lets have an honest discussion about why, where we went wrong, and fix this while we still can.
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I agree with you mostly. But remember the priests, bishops, theologians who did damage in the 1970s were formed back in the good old days of 40s and 50s, so be careful about when the “wreck” was caused.

I think the Traditional orders give due attention to powerful insights of St JPII.
 
I agree with the formation dates. Falls in line with the testimony from Bella Dodd and others. My “50 years” comment was pointing to the destruction wrought from the late 60’s onward when these “Priests and Bishops” seemingly became emboldened. The Priest that assaulted my friend in 1973 on a local mission trip was ordained in 1963. So yes, the rot began earlier.
 
ralfy . . .
Does this mean that if the Church strongly opposed homosexuality and vetted seminarians rigidly in light of that, then the numbers of applicants and those who eventually become priests will rise considerably?
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I don’t know what you mean here.

If you mean “strongly opposed homosexuality” in the sense of inclinations this is not a sin.

If you mean “strongly opposed homosexuality” in the sense of men committing acts against nature upon other men, She already does (although many of the people who should be teaching this are not).

If you mean “strongly opposed homosexuality” in the sense of not ordaining homosexual men to the priesthood, this is already taught. It just is often ignored.

Again. I’m not sure what you mean so I will refrain from a direct answer here.
 
Victoria33 said:
Is that a rule of thumb basically,
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From the General Instruction of the Roman Missal:
  1. The homily is part of the Liturgy and is strongly recommended, for it is necessary for the nurturing of the Christian life. It should be an exposition of some aspect of the readings from Sacred Scripture or of another text from the Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day and should take into account both the mystery being celebrated and the particular needs of the listeners.
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I’d like to find out if the increase has to do with the fact that priests are allowed to marry or another factor. Also, I’d like to see what effects married priests will have on financing and other matters for the Catholic Church. For now, there are anecdotes from former Episcopal priests, and they talk about difficulties in making ends meet and being reassigned. I think these problems also be amplified in poor Catholic communities, especially in developing countries.
 
I mean not ignoring what is taught and acting on it. That is, expulsion, defrocking, etc., and not reassigning or something similar.
 
Probably the same way they someone manage to spend that time talking about the Archbishop’s Annual Appeal or the upcoming trip to Haiti?

Besides, it isnt that hard to spin scripture onto any topic on morality.
 
AlNg said:
You may have put your finger on why the church is reluctant to do away with the celibacy requirement.
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I think you’re oversimplifying the issues involved with a married clergy. The logistics involved with supporting families instead of individual priests would be a large burden on our current infrastructure, but the larger issue (in my opinion) is the divided responsibilities of a married priest. An unmarried priest is 100% dedicated to his parish, a married priest will have conflicting demands from his parish and his family. It’s tough enough to be a lay parent, balancing the demands of faith, work and family, I can’t imagine being a pastor and a father!
 
MikeInVA said:
. An unmarried priest is 100% dedicated to his parish, a married priest will have conflicting demands from his parish and his family. It’s tough enough to be a lay parent, balancing the demands of faith, work and family, I can’t imagine being a pastor and a father!
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This.
I have seen this first hand among my Protestant brothers and sisters.
The strain on the children is enormous.
The entire family suffers under the strain of being divided between their own needs and the needs of the church.
The children suffer most.
 
MikeInVA said:
It’s tough enough to be a lay parent, balancing the demands of faith, work and family, I can’t imagine being a pastor and a father!
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Have you ever heard about the Eastern Orthodox Church and the fact that they have a married clergy? Married clergy do just fine in the Russian Federation where their numbers have been increasing dramatically in recent years.
 
vz71 said:
This.
I have seen this first hand among my Protestant brothers and sisters.
The strain on the children is enormous.
The entire family suffers under the strain of being divided between their own needs and the needs of the church.
The children suffer most.
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Nonsense. I am married to a doctor, and for many years I travelled the world as an applied scientist in the paper industry at the same time. My wife had a heavy obstetrics case load, worked ER shifts and did hospital pick-up (picking up hospitalized patients without a primary care doctor). She would be called out in the middle of the night to deliver a baby. Sometimes it would be a complicated delivery keeping her up all night while I rushed to get the kids ready for school before heading out to work. Sometimes she’d come home heartbroken from a stillbirth.

We raised three kids through all that, all productive adults now, all loving and caring people. Was it easy? No. Was it impossible? No.

My wife has many patients struggling to raise kids, often holding down two menial jobs to make ends meet, or single mothers working their butts off to raise their children.

Perhaps if clergy shared in our realities they would be in a better position to understand us. There may be good reasons for mollycoddling clergy from the realities of married life, but the strain of raising a family and maintaining a vocation isn’t one of them. I too know some Protestant pastors, that do just fine doing just that in spite of the difficulties. All their kids turned out terrific.

Almost everyone in the current dog-eat-dog capitalist world is faced with equally bad split loyalties between employer and family.

At least with the clergy it’s split between God and family, not Mammon and family.

Besides we already have married clergy who manage to split their loyalties three ways between God, family and employers: permanent deacons, who can be every bit as busy as priests. I doubt adding the ability to administer two more sacraments pushes priests over the edge.

I am convinced the reason is economic: stipends, inheritance rights, providing family health care benefits, etc. Any notion about vocational dilution is just, IMHO, spin.
 
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vz71 said:
Look, I only know what I have witnessed first hand. Divided vocations are not a good idea.
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Not just me, but at least three Protestant pastors I am familiar with. Two Anglicans (wife’s church) and one Baptist. Not to mention several Catholic permanent deacons. And just about every doctor in my wife’s professional circles.

All have raised great kids, and have tended well to the pastoral needs of their (ageing) flocks as well as the material and emotional needs of their families.

Again it isn’t easy. It isn’t easy for anyone, honestly. We don’t live in utopia. We need more priests, desperately. In the province Quebec, there are exactly 11 priests in seminary between Montreal and Quebec City. There is no way this can meet the future needs of the (practicing) Catholic population.
 
I can provide a horror story for each exception you provide.

I trust the wisdom of the church.
Divided vocations are not a good idea.
 
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