Lots of interesting stuff, huh? Can’t see wearing a crucfix, or calling the pope holy father, though!And interestingly enough,neither is the word Trinity & canon of scripture,but you believe them both. And no where in the NT, does it address wearing wedding rings or getting married at a church,but many do.
If you had to guess, what percentage of catholics would you say fall away after being confirmed, and baptized! You know into a lifestyle of drinking heavily, adultery, and crime? I know of many caholic friends, who are borderline alcoholics, but attend mass every week. There are countless catholcs in prison, many doing life terms!close but not. the sinners prayer was developed no sooner than 500 years ago. it has gone thru many evolutions since its founding. the history of this prayer is interesting to study. one of dwight l. moodys assosiates stated it needed to be changed, because of the high percentage of people falling away after having whole heartedly said it. its present form came about through the Rev Billy Graham. i for one am not going to trust my salvation to so flimsy a foundation as a prayer, whose biblical, and traditonal origins do not hold water. Peace
And what is Paul’s view of works? And, besides going to mass, confession and partaking of communion, what works do you personally perform?thank you Father. yes, its common sense. i believe the chair that was given to me as a gift from someone will hold me, so i sit in it. belief follow by action is all throughout the bible. in that case it is i believe in the Gift God gave me, and now i act on that belief with Charity, and obedience to the Royal law. to love God above all else, and to love my neighbor as myself. and we are still able to submit ourselves to the apostles doctrine, and meet daily, just as they did. amazing isnt it? peace
Incredible! The Ethiopian eunuch met Jesus in the wilderness!all these Godly people are a good cases in point. not one of them got down on their knees and prayed a sinners prayer. Abraham Believed God, and set out for the land God had showed him. Rahab Believed God, and hid the spys. Paul got knocked to his knees (not off his horse, thats not in there) recieved the message and obeyed. the eunich is a very good case in point. as learned as he was, he understood, that he could not undertand scripture in and of himself. it took an apostle to show him the light. then what happened? did they kneel down, and say a sinners prayer? no. the eunich believed and then out of obedience said look, here is water, why should i not be baptized. interestingly enough. baptism was being taught orally by the apostle. we didnt have a new testament yet. so we have a case also of a person recieving the truth, and submitting themselves to the apostles doctrine. in each case, the person believed and that my friend was followed by action. this is in perfect harmony with what James said. Faith without Works is dead. Peace
countless protestants as well in prison. Joyce meyer has a huge ministry. God bless her. so whats your point? i also know of many protestants that are borderline and full blown alcoholics. im a former baptist, so i could tell you many stories about premarital pregnancy, marital infedelity amoung the layity. etc etc. so whats your point? and these people also attend church 2wice on sunday and 1nce on wedsday nights. and dont worry, i will answer each of your questions one at a time
If you had to guess, what percentage of catholics would you say fall away after being confirmed, and baptized! You know into a lifestyle of drinking heavily, adultery, and crime? I know of many caholic friends, who are borderline alcoholics, but attend mass every week. There are countless catholcs in prison, many doing life terms!
peace Pauls view of works was the same as James. look at 1rst corinthians 13. the love or “charity” chapter. look at james, very short letter so you can find this. pure religion is this, that one visit the widows and fatherless in their distress. which means you also provide relief to such. we follow the Royal law of liberty. which is to love God above all, and our neighbor as ourselves. if you want a good view of what the eucharist is, i suggest you go to the mormon/catholic eucharist contrast thread, and see how we answered our good friend z. its much deeper than you surmise. as far as my personal works? why would i blow my own horn. im just a servant. i would not ask you for a catalog of the works that you personally perform. again, what would be the point? peace
It just sounded like you were implying that only noncatholics fell away after being saved! Makes me wonder exactly when the disciples got "saved?"Did they fall away or sin after being saved? I know there are heavy drinkers and cheaters in every religion, and no one should act like their religion is better than anyone else’s!countless protestants as well in prison. Joyce meyer has a huge ministry. God bless her. so whats your point? i also know of many protestants that are borderline and full blown alcoholics. im a former baptist, so i could tell you many stories about premarital pregnancy, marital infedelity amoung the layity. etc etc. so whats your point? and these people also attend church 2wice on sunday and 1nce on wedsday nights. and dont worry, i will answer each of your questions one at a time
As a fellow servant, I am always curious what other Christians do outside of the church!Pauls view of works was the same as James. look at 1rst corinthians 13. the love or “charity” chapter. look at james, very short letter so you can find this. pure religion is this, that one visit the widows and fatherless in their distress. which means you also provide relief to such. we follow the Royal law of liberty. which is to love God above all, and our neighbor as ourselves. if you want a good view of what the eucharist is, i suggest you go to the mormon/catholic eucharist contrast thread, and see how we answered our good friend z. its much deeper than you surmise. as far as my personal works? why would i blow my own horn. im just a servant. i would not ask you for a catalog of the works that you personally perform. again, what would be the point? peace
I think Paul was saying that we are not saved by works, and that we cannot work our way into Heaven!Pauls view of works was the same as James. look at 1rst corinthians 13. the love or “charity” chapter. look at james, very short letter so you can find this. pure religion is this, that one visit the widows and fatherless in their distress. which means you also provide relief to such. we follow the Royal law of liberty. which is to love God above all, and our neighbor as ourselves. if you want a good view of what the eucharist is, i suggest you go to the mormon/catholic eucharist contrast thread, and see how we answered our good friend z. its much deeper than you surmise. as far as my personal works? why would i blow my own horn. im just a servant. i would not ask you for a catalog of the works that you personally perform. again, what would be the point? peace
What’s most amazing about Joyce Meyer(an awesome woman of God), is that she led her father to Christ; a man who had sexually molested her when she was a child!countless protestants as well in prison. Joyce meyer has a huge ministry. God bless her. so whats your point? i also know of many protestants that are borderline and full blown alcoholics. im a former baptist, so i could tell you many stories about premarital pregnancy, marital infedelity amoung the layity. etc etc. so whats your point? and these people also attend church 2wice on sunday and 1nce on wedsday nights. and dont worry, i will answer each of your questions one at a time
paul says the same thing as james. faith without works is dead. he just puts it into other words. Peace
Romans 10:8-11 Doesn’t tell you to kneel down. It is about people realizing they are sinners in need of a Savior. Their eyes have been opened to their wretched state. Prayer is simply talking to God pouring your heart out to Him. People cry out to God and ask Him to save them. Rom 10:13 Those who call upon the name of the LORD will be saved.all these Godly people are a good cases in point. not one of them got down on their knees and prayed a sinners prayer. Abraham Believed God, and set out for the land God had showed him. Rahab Believed God, and hid the spys. Paul got knocked to his knees (not off his horse, thats not in there) recieved the message and obeyed. the eunich is a very good case in point. as learned as he was, he understood, that he could not undertand scripture in and of himself. it took an apostle to show him the light. then what happened? did they kneel down, and say a sinners prayer? no. the eunich believed and then out of obedience said look, here is water, why should i not be baptized. interestingly enough. baptism was being taught orally by the apostle. we didnt have a new testament yet. so we have a case also of a person recieving the truth, and submitting themselves to the apostles doctrine. in each case, the person believed and that my friend was followed by action. this is in perfect harmony with what James said. Faith without Works is dead. Peace
i went to the post you were replying to. that was not me implying that, that was a friend of dwight l. moody. a fellow protestant of his implying that. i think if a Catholic is poorly catechized, and poorly trained, the likelyhood of him/her falling away is high, because they have no clue what/who they are. Peace
And yet there are people who believe that the more work they do, the more God will love them, and they will get a better place in Heaven!paul says the same thing as james. faith without works is dead. he just puts it into other words. Peace
even the people who heading to hell are loved by God. he takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked. and neither should we. after receiving his gift, we are to practice the law of liberty as found in James, which is the same law of Charity found in the writings of Paul. otherwise our simple believism, will in the end turn out to be a false faith. even the devil and his angels believe, and they tremble. but it avails them nothing. so to. many will say to him on that day, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name? and he will turn to them and say, away from me you accursed. for i was hungry and you did not give me food. naked and you did not clothe me. sick and imprisoned and you did not visit me. Faith not accompanied by works is a dead faith. show me your works without faith, and i will show you my faith by my works. there is a balance, and it is supported by biblical and traditional evidence. Peace
yes what a wonderful example of faith leading to forgiveness and charity. even for ones enemies. peace
believe it or not my friend, i was right where you are at 25 years ago. i said the same “sinners prayer” you did. i had the same “life changing” phenomenon happen. as stated many times, im a former baptist, who had strong calvinistic leanings. i also would have defended osas to the max. too long a story to relate here. but some things doctrinally never made any sense. and i always had this inexplicable pull to the Catholic Church. wish i would have acted on it sooner, it could have saved me years of searching and heartache. i agree with you. we become a new creation. but it is not just a one time prayer and thats it. it is not just a onetime turning away from sin getting baptized and thats it. it is a lifetime process. it states many times in scripture those that are BEING saved. etc. it is a lifetime process. for the thief on the Cross, it was a “deathbed” conversion. if however the thief had survived the cross, i believe he would have submitted to the apostles teaching, and he would have lived a life of charity and good works. you are right we become a new creation. but we are warned to put the old man to death. that is a process. not a one time thing. we are also given many warning about such throughout the new testament. shall i just then go by easy believism? or follow what the scriptures, tradition, and the Church say. because my friend, if i do not listen to the ones God has set above me “the magestirium” then i do not listen to Christ. Peace
Jesus said you will know them by their fruits and also people will know that you are His disciples IF you love one another. The fruits (works) and love are natural results of the inward Christ you have living in you. Just saying you have faith is not enough; see the first epistle of John. He says “if we say” many times when it comes to the actions of a person. So a sinner’s prayer is no more going to save you if there is no inward change because it would only be lip service; something God is firmly against.paul says the same thing as james. faith without works is dead. he just puts it into other words. Peace
well said Father!
one thing i always admired about my arminian bretheren, was their call to holiness. although at the time, i mistakenly believed they taught salvation by works. peace What are your thoughts?