“Plenty of queens in this deck!”

[Dale_M]

If this was a bridge club that happened to consist of mainly homosexual members, I think it would be discrimination. But as the group has labeled themselves as a group for HOMOSEXUAL bridge-players

Have they? Their website doesn’t indicate that.

pumpkinbeast:

This is just mild speculation, but I would guess that the bridge-playing would be a way for homosexuals to meet one another, and set up later dates for… other… activities.

Perhaps, but the same could be said for any bridge club for mixed singles, too.

mdgspencer:

But since gay sex is sinful, it is not different than having a bridge club of child abusers or burglars meeting in the parish hall of a church.

Actually, it is quite a bit different than a bridge club for criminals. .

As for sexual activity, I can’t imagine this would take place at the club meets. The club is an occasion to socialize. Doesn’t anyone here play cards?

fix:

Gay Pride Center? Does that mean these individuals are in concert with Catholic teaching or against it?

How about none of the above?

Neil_Anthony:

But why would a Catholic group call itself “QuickTricks”? It sounds like a euphamism to me. The parish could at least ask them to rethink the name, for crying out loud.

Its not a Catholic group, but a social club which has been in existence for more than 25 years. I guess the church could have asked them to change their name…
I dunno. But googling the words:
“quick tricks” bridge
turns up quite a few mainstream bridge sites.

 

[john1863]

Have they? Their website doesn’t indicate that.

Exactly Dale,

Here’s how I view this, for what little it is worth…if these people are not committing some sort of sin on church grounds, what is the problem?

Their presence in a Catholic social hall sounds like an excellent opportunity for conversation.

Conversation could lead to something very positive. I seem to remember that someone we hold in high esteem used conversation.

John

 

[fix]

How about none of the above?

How can it be that? Gay pride has a specific political meaning. It is not consistent with Catholic morality. The entire affair seems very disingenuous at best.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Its not a Catholic group, but a social club which has been in existence for more than 25 years. I guess the church could have asked them to change their name…
I dunno. But googling the words:
“quick tricks” bridge
turns up quite a few mainstream bridge sites.

Oh… I see, quick trick is a bridge term… hmm. And “plenty of queens in this deck” is something that was written by a gay newspaper not affiliated with the group. Ok then I see no reason not to let them play cards at church. After all most of the people in the parish are gay, so a card night at church is most likely going to have gays.

 

[KathleenElsie]

The KKK is a hate group. They beat up and murder people. I suspect the bridge club isn’t involved in such activities.

What do you mean by a “pro-sodomite” group?

If you have seen the pictures of this group and how they mock Holy Mother Church with their dress and actions you might feel that the group is a “hate” group. Their actions feel like hate to many of us more conservative types. Being beat up and physically murdered can sometimes be equated with emotional abuse in the form of the “in your face” actions and dress in a place og God.

 

[Dale_M]

If you have seen the pictures of this group and how they mock Holy Mother Church with their dress and actions you might feel that the group is a “hate” group. .

KathleenElsie, are you talking about the Quick Tricks Bridge Club or something different?

 

[KathleenElsie]

KathleenElsie, are you talking about the Quick Tricks Bridge Club or something different?

Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence as part of the same parish community.

 

[Dale_M]

Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence as part of the same parish community.

Oh, okay. Yes, they are beyond the pale.

 

[Elzee]

Look at the USCCB statement on how to treat those with same-gender sexual preferences. It says to treat them with loving compassion. I mean it when they are just playing cards.

How is a game of bridge going to confuse people? Should they be playing Texas Hold’em Poker? Gin? 500? Hearts instead?

All of us have conversations from time to time which would be “outside Church teaching”. That means none of us are worthy enough to rent out the basement of any parish in the country.

This is not “secular reasoning”, it is compassion towards others. Otherwise you seem to be inferring it is in Catholic Teachings to look down on them as a lesser people not worthy for anything.

The original post cited that this was a homosexual bridge club. As others have stated, I doubt any parish would let a swingers club use their parish for a social gathering. Why? Because swinging goes against Church teaching and it implies the Church approves. This is no different.

Not allowing a group that blatantly identifies itself as being against Church teaching to hold a gathering in a parish is not looking down on them as a lesser people not worthy of anything. It’s rightly sending the message that we do not condone this lifestyle. There is nothing wrong, non-compassionate, or discriminatory about that - as long as it is done in the right way and reasons are given.

 

[Dale_M]

The original post cited that this was a homosexual bridge club.

Yes, but it is not a label that the club endorses. Did you visit their website? The club is based in the Castro neighborhood, the heart of gay San Francisco. It wouldn’t be surprising at all if most of the members were homosexual.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

There’s not mention of ‘gay’ on the bridge club’s website. If most of the members of this parish have SSA, then you could call anything the parish does ‘gay’ if you really want to. But I don’t see why you would do that.

 

[Lynn-D]

It is not scandalous. It is not even against the latest USCCB statement on treating people with same-gender preferences. They have same-gender preferences, it is who they are. They are playing cards, no more. Anything else is discrimination against people based on their differences (same-gender preference in this case).

No wonder I am confused. I assumed gender was brain and sex was genitalia.

Personally I love same gender interaction since my girlfriends can relate to our brains being in tune most times. But, sex is something quite different is it not?

The use of gender has become a social construct application and is rather bizarre and misleading to my way of thinking.

I wonder if my husband would have been wide-eyed and flabbergasted should I have suggested we not play cards but retire and have gender?

Lynn-D

 

[twf]

The website explicitly states that the club was established for gays to play bridge…how is it not a homosexual club?

I agree that it is just like a parish renting out its hall to a group of swingers. It doesn’t matter if they aren’t technically engaging in immoral behaviour at the hall (which they may or may not be doing), but the message it sends is one of support which causes scandal for the faithful and confuses outsiders as to the Church’s position on the matter. If I wanted to start a bridge club for “Women Haters Anonymous”, would you advocate my right to rent out a parish hall? We wouldn’t actually be harming women during these meetings…but the church would be giving the impression that it condones hatred of women.

 

[Angels_Watchin]

It is not scandalous. It is not even against the latest USCCB statement on treating people with same-gender preferences. They have same-gender preferences, it is who they are. They are playing cards, no more. Anything else is discrimination against people based on their differences (same-gender preference in this case).

You’re leaveing out one very important word in the vatican document - UNJUST - it says “unjust discrimination” - when a group of people openly support (by their belonging to a group who does) sexual relations among unmarried people of the same sex - they need NOT be included in the open door - rent the hall - policy.

This is JUST (rightful) discrimination. - to discriminate -* to note or observe a difference; distinguish accurately* - we must do this actively if we are to avoid sin - we must “discriminate” between good and evil. Sodomy is evil, those who openly support sodomy are evil.

If they are struggling with this problem - they need to address it as a PROBLEM!!! a SIN!!! - not hang out and advertise those groups who support it!

 

[KathleenElsie]

You’re leaveing out one very important word in the vatican document - UNJUST - it says “unjust discrimination” - when a group of people openly support (by their belonging to a group who does) sexual relations among unmarried people of the same sex - they need NOT be included in the open door - rent the hall - policy.

This is JUST (rightful) discrimination. - to discriminate -* to note or observe a difference; distinguish accurately* - we must do this actively if we are to avoid sin - we must “discriminate” between good and evil. Sodomy is evil, those who openly support sodomy are evil.

If they are struggling with this problem - they need to address it as a PROBLEM!!! a SIN!!! - not hang out and advertise those groups who support it!

Well said. We sometimesw forget that that little four letter word mean alot to people of faith.

 

[Dale_M]

The website explicitly states that the club was established for gays to play bridge…how is it not a homosexual club?

What website are you referring to? Surely not the club’s website.

I agree that it is just like a parish renting out its hall to a group of swingers.

I don’t see the connection. The club isn’t for homosexuals, it is a club for bridge whose membership is predominantly (but not exclusively) homosexual. Again, it is only reasonable to expect the club to have a predominantly homosexual membership, because it is located in a neighborhood which is predominantly homosexual.

If I wanted to start a bridge club for “Women Haters Anonymous”, would you advocate my right to rent out a parish hall? We wouldn’t actually be harming women during these meetings…but the church would be giving the impression that it condones hatred of women.

No, I would not support that club because it is a hate organization which is contrary to Church teaching. If the bridge club was strictly for homosexuals, I would not support it either.
Angels Watchin:

when a group of people openly support (by their belonging to a group who does) sexual relations among unmarried people of the same sex - they need NOT be included in the open door - rent the hall - policy.

Okay, but the club is not just for homosexuals. It is for anyone who wants to play bridge. So barring them to rent the hall would be unjust discrimination.

 

[LRThunder]

What website are you referring to? Surely not the club’s website.

I don’t see the connection. The club isn’t for homosexuals, it is a club for bridge whose membership is predominantly (but not exclusively) homosexual. Again, it is only reasonable to expect the club to have a predominantly homosexual membership, because it is located in a neighborhood which is predominantly homosexual.

No, I would not support that club because it is a hate organization which is contrary to Church teaching. If the bridge club was strictly for homosexuals, I would not support it either.

Okay, but the club is not just for homosexuals. It is for anyone who wants to play bridge. So barring them to rent the hall would be unjust discrimination.

Even if the group isn’t a homosexuals only type club, given the history of this parish, it would be a scandal for this parish to promote this activity for any group even remotely approaching favoring homosexuals. If this was another parish and the same group, you might be correct (key word might), but this parish’s history doesn’t help the situation.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

You’re leaveing out one very important word in the vatican document - UNJUST - it says “unjust discrimination” - when a group of people openly support (by their belonging to a group who does) sexual relations among unmarried people of the same sex - they need NOT be included in the open door - rent the hall - policy.

This is JUST (rightful) discrimination. - to discriminate -* to note or observe a difference; distinguish accurately* - we must do this actively if we are to avoid sin - we must “discriminate” between good and evil. Sodomy is evil, those who openly support sodomy are evil.

If they are struggling with this problem - they need to address it as a PROBLEM!!! a SIN!!! - not hang out and advertise those groups who support it!

It sure does not look that way to me. So, by your “just” way to discriminate, any evil needs to be banned from the Church. So, why is this sin singled out? We are all sinners, using your definition of just than nobody can use the church basement for a threat of a “scandal”.

Life is not black and white, good and evil, it is full of infinite shades of grey. People are more than one part of their being.

 

[Angels_Watchin]

It sure does not look that way to me. So, by your “just” way to discriminate, any evil needs to be banned from the Church. So, why is this sin singled out? We are all sinners, using your definition of just than nobody can use the church basement for a threat of a “scandal”.

Life is not black and white, good and evil, it is full of infinite shades of grey. People are more than one part of their being.

These people are OPENLY PUBLICLY SUPPORTING AND PROMOTING SIN!
Yes, we are all sinners, but ANY GROUP who promotes sin cannot use the facilities -
here’s a th quote
Official teaching Document from the Magisterium

Letter to Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html
(section 17)

“All support should be withdrawn from any organizations which seek to undermine the teaching of the Church, which are ambiguous about it, or which neglect it entirely. …
(end)

They don’t even have to be promoting sin - all they have to be is ambiguous or neglectful of it.

According to this document, the bridgeclub - even if it were a specifically heterosexual group - can’t use the facility. THE CHURCH IS NOT A SOCIAL CLUB!

 

[Elzee]

You’re leaveing out one very important word in the vatican document - UNJUST - it says “unjust discrimination” - when a group of people openly support (by their belonging to a group who does) sexual relations among unmarried people of the same sex - they need NOT be included in the open door - rent the hall - policy.

This is JUST (rightful) discrimination. - to discriminate -* to note or observe a difference; distinguish accurately* - we must do this actively if we are to avoid sin - we must “discriminate” between good and evil. Sodomy is evil, those who openly support sodomy are evil.

If they are struggling with this problem - they need to address it as a PROBLEM!!! a SIN!!! - not hang out and advertise those groups who support it!

Well said!!! I have to say I am amazed at the people posting on this thread who think this is okay. I heard a speaker at a conference once say that if you polled people at random and asked them to describe a Catholic, the last two words they would probably use are “spiritual and prayerful”. In other words, we are not seen as a Godly faith by many people - like it or not. We are are own worse enemy. We don’t preach our faith, teach our faith, defend our faith, and many cases we don’t live our faith. Relativism has crept in and the devil is securely in our sanctuaries. We can rationalize anything under the guise of ‘love’ and ‘non-discrimination’. Seems like I recall someone in the bible telling it like it is on occasion…“brood of vipers” comes to mind.

Especially when compared to other Christians who boldly and unashamedly defend what they believe - many times in love, sometimes, mistakenly, not in love - we look like what many of us are - nominal Catholics who are so afraid of offending anybody that we let it cloud our judgment when it comes to making moral and faith-based decisions. As a good priest I know once said once during a homily… we all need to grow a Catholic, spiritual backbone.