1 Timothy 3:15

[Seeking12]

First, you have no authority! If you say the bible is your authority, then the bible ought to have your name written in it that says Seeking 12 has the authority to bind and loose. I hate to burst your bubble, but you won’t find it there. Shouldn’t the Catholic Church be named? I am named; it is “saint”.

Second, contraception is always wrong. This isn’t the thread for this but just so you know, the Catholic Church has always taught that it is intrinsicly evil. I told you would not like that one.

Third, if Jesus clarified himself in v. 63 of John, if it was so clear he was speaking symbolically, then why did His disciples leave after he supposedly clarified Himself in v.63? **The better question would be; why are you part of the crowd that thought He was speaking literally and walked away in disbelief?**You continue to amaze me. Again, with all due respect, your position is not well thought out. And there is more that I would like to address with you but do not have the time right now.

By the way, are you formerly known on this forum as “NonCatholic”? What???

 

[SteveGC]

Just so I’m clear, Seeking12…

Just YOU can bind and loose? Just YOU can teach authentically?

Or all “saints” can? All “believers” can?

If it’s all believers, what is it that identifies them as such? I mean, are there believers out there who believe in “just about” everything you do, who aren’t allowed to bind and loose?

If I walk away from my false Catholic religion, I’m going to have to find one of these “authorities” like you. Could you please tell me precisely where to find one…one that teaches it JUST LIKE YOU, so that I will KNOW I am hearing the truth, and not some concocted version?

Or are you alone the earthly shepherd?

I’m asking without seriousness for myself, of course…but I really want to know, my friend…because open-minded people ARE out there learning from you…and I really want to know if you see yourself as the modern prophet you make yourself out to be.

 

[broski234]

Seeking12:
You can’t and won’t answer my questions. How can anyone read John 6(which has nothing to do with the OP) and say it is symbolic language? Please clarify what you mean or start your own thread on the issue and be sure to invite me.

 

[wisdomseeker]

hey Catholics do you think that seeking12 fits in the category of invincible ignorance? yes or no?

Lactantius

**“It is, therefore, the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth; this, the domicile of faith; this, the temple of God. Whoever does not enter there or whoever does not go out from there, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. . . . Because, however, all the various groups of heretics are confident that they are the Christians and think that theirs is the Catholic Church, let it be known that this is the true Church, in which there is confession and penance and which takes a health-promoting care of the sins and wounds to which the weak flesh is subject” (Divine Institutes 4:30:11–13 [A.D. 307]). **

 

[Seeking12]

Just so I’m clear, Seeking12…

Just YOU can bind and loose? Just YOU can teach authentically? Anyone who can present the gospel of Christ; would have that authority.

Or all “saints” can? All “believers” can?

If it’s all believers, what is it that identifies them as such? I mean, are there believers out there who believe in “just about” everything you do, who aren’t allowed to bind and loose?

If I walk away from my false Catholic religion, I’m going to have to find one of these “authorities” like you. Could you please tell me precisely where to find one…one that teaches it JUST LIKE YOU, so that I will KNOW I am hearing the truth, and not some concocted version?

Or are you alone the earthly shepherd?

I’m asking without seriousness for myself, of course…but I really want to know, my friend…because open-minded people ARE out there learning from you…and I really want to know if you see yourself as the modern prophet you make yourself out to be.

I see myself as a undeserving servant of the Lord and I am thankful for His kindness and mercy on my soul, my wife’s and I pray my children.

 

[DavWan]

Those are all easy to answer because God has said in His word.
Yes, I have the authority to loose and/or bind.

Where does it say that? Many liberal Protestants deny this after all.

Abortion is never allowed; it is murder regardless of the circumstance.

Where does it say abortion is murder? Catholics believe this, but if you insist on the Bible alone, you have no basis to claim this.

Contraception may or may not be depending if you are destroying a fetus or preventing one in the first place. God has remained silent on this, which I know you do not agree because of what your denomination teaches.

How can you justify this from scripture?

66 books; which is further evidence that the Bible I have did not come from the Catholic Church, but rather the Holy Spirit guiding men.

And where can you show this is true, other than your own say so? I don’t recall the Bible saying what books were in the Bible

It is just a symbol of His death burial resurrection, see John 6:63 for reference for the explanation of the figurative language Jesus used in which your denomination likes to site for the literal eating; He clarified beyond any doubt except in some minds of those who realize by denying this it would not be any benefit to their religious faith.

Yet, if this were so, why did not Jesus explain he was not speaking literally? His own disciples left him on account of this.

We haven’t walked away from Christ. We say with Peter “Lord, to whom should we go?” We believe he spoke literally and we stayed with him.

To answer you last question; we have two completely different gospels. If you remain in your unbelief; you will die in your sin

That is rather illogical. Your interpretation of the Bible is what we need to follow? Are you claiming you are infallible in your interpretation of the Bible? If not, how do you know you are not misinterpreting it?

 

[broski234]

I see myself as a undeserving servant of the Lord and I am thankful for His kindness and mercy on my soul, my wife’s and I pray my children.

Huh? I’m not following you here. Please finish your sentence brother.

 

[Seeking12]

Huh? I’m not following you here. Please finish your sentence brother.

I was replying to SteveGC’s last post.

 

[JRKH]

Those are all easy to answer because God has said in His word.
Yes, I have the authority to loose and/or bind.

Abortion is never allowed; it is murder regardless of the circumstance.

Contraception may or may not be depending if you are destroying a fetus or preventing one in the first place. God has remained silent on this, which I know you do not agree because of what your denomination teaches.

66 books; which is further evidence that the Bible I have did not come from the Catholic Church, but rather the Holy Spirit guiding men.

It is just a symbol of His death burial resurrection, see John 6:63 for reference for the explanation of the figurative language Jesus used in which your denomination likes to site for the literal eating; He clarified beyond any doubt except in some minds of those who realize by denying this it would not be any benefit to their religious faith.
So, Obviously since my reading of the SAME GOSPEL TEXT AS YOU leads me to some different conclusions that you, I must accept YOUR interpretation or remain in sin.

To answer you last question; we have two completely different gospels. If you remain in your unbelief; you will die in your sin.

We read our Gospels from the same Texts. I have proclaimed the Gospel to you and you have rejected it. Therefore, by your own standard, unless you accept MY interpretion, you will Die in YOUR sin.

Can you see the dilemma here?
By the way I am not condemning you here, we are talking about the ramifications of your interpretation that each individual can hold another individual in their “sin” based upon a personal interpretation of scripture.

Peace
James

 

[Seeking12]

hey Catholics do you think that seeking12 fits in the category of invincible ignorance? yes or no?

It is not me you make fun of; do not add insult to injury upon your soul.

Lactantius

**“It is, therefore, the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth; this, the domicile of faith; this, the temple of God. Whoever does not enter there or whoever does not go out from there, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. . . . Because, however, all the various groups of heretics are confident that they are the Christians and think that theirs is the Catholic Church, let it be known that this is the true Church, in which there is confession and penance and which takes a health-promoting care of the sins and wounds to which the weak flesh is subject” (Divine Institutes 4:30:11–13 [A.D. 307]). **

 

[JRKH]

Seeking12,
I would like to ask you an honest question that relates to your earlier response to me clarifying your “ministry”.
If I remember correctly you said that you distribute many tracts and CD’s of various men presumably speaking on religious matters.
Since you obviously believe that the Bible is the One and sole rule of faith why are you bothering with all of these other opinions? Why aren’t you just passing out Bibles and that’s that?
After all, everything we need to know is in there right?
We don’t need any outside teaching authority to find our salvation in the Bible right?

Peace
James

 

[wisdomseeker]

Seeking12:
It is not me you make fun of; do not add insult to injury upon your soul.

you seem very emotional. i am not adding injury to my soul, you are adding injury to your soul by persisiting on your ignorance. you claim something we also claim. but you continue to try to convince us that your opinion is better than ours. not that we have opinions when it comes to the Word of God. but it seems that this is what is in your mind.

the CC has been here for 2000 years. throughout history many have tried to destroy her. they couldnt and neither can you… many have come and gone but the CC will be here untill the end according to the Lord’s promise. the CC came from the mouth of our Master and not from somebody reading the Bible and claiming it.

if you read history of Christianity you might learn something.
faith alone does not work here. we know better.

** St. Augustin
“The Church is hidden from no one for it is the Catholic Church itself which is therefore called universal in Greek because it is spread throughout the entire world. It is not allowed to anyone not to know this Church for which reason, according to the word of Jesus Christ, it is not possible that it be hidden. There are many other things which keep me in the bosom of the Catholic Church – the unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here, her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests from the very seat of the Apostle Peter up to the present episcopate keeps me here and last, the very name of Catholic, which not without reason belongs to this Church alone in the face of so many heretics, so much so that although all heretics want to be called Catholic, when a stranger inquires where a Catholic Church meets, not one of the heretics would dare point out his own basilica or meeting place. The name of the Catholic Church is peculiar to the true Church.” **

 

[Seeking12]

Where does it say that? Many liberal Protestants deny this after all.

Where does it say abortion is murder? Catholics believe this, but if you insist on the Bible alone, you have no basis to claim this.

How can you justify this from scripture?

And where can you show this is true, other than your own say so? I don’t recall the Bible saying what books were in the Bible
Irrelevant… I say you say

Yet, if this were so, why did not Jesus explain he was not speaking literally? His own disciples left him on account of this.

We haven’t walked away from Christ. We say with Peter “Lord, to whom should we go?” We believe he spoke literally and we stayed with him.

That is rather illogical. Your interpretation of the Bible is what we need to follow? Are you claiming you are infallible in your interpretation of the Bible? If not, how do you know you are not misinterpreting it?

**Matthew 18:18

Job 31:15

John 6:63; Jesus did explain exactly how he was speaking or have you not read what the Scripture says? As far as the disciples that left; then I refer you to 1 John 2:19.

Scripture will always verify it self; it is the gift of the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible in the first place , but you must first have the indwelling, then you must be diligent in reading, hearing and studying and God has commanded. No one is perfect in its interpretation; there are things we cannot fully understand in our finite fallen selves.**

 

[broski234]

**Matthew 18:18

Job 31:15

John 6:63; Jesus did explain exactly how he was speaking or have you not read what the Scripture says? As far as the disciples that left; then I refer you to 1 John 2:19.

Scripture will always verify it self; it is the gift of the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible in the first place , but you must first have the indwelling, then you must be diligent in reading, hearing and studying and God has commanded. No one is perfect in its interpretation; there are things we cannot fully understand in our finite fallen selves.**

So we should believe you, Seeking, whose name gives no assurance that you are even sure what you believe? We should believe your fallible, man-made interpretation over the Church that has lasted over 2000 years? I don’t think so. You still never addressed my questions pertaining to John 6.

 

[Seeking12]

It is not me you make fun of; do not add insult to injury upon your soul.

you seem very emotional. i am not adding injury to my soul, you are adding injury to your soul by persisiting on your ignorance. you claim something we also claim. but you continue to try to convince us that your opinion is better than ours. not that we have opinions when it comes to the Word of God. but it seems that this is what is in your mind.

the CC has been here for 2000 years. throughout history many have tried to destroy her. they couldnt and neither can you… many have come and gone but the CC will be here untill the end according to the Lord’s promise. the CC came from the mouth of our Master and not from somebody reading the Bible and claiming it.

if you read history of Christianity you might learn something.
faith alone does not work here. we know better.

**I have no interest in destroying your faith, nor could I, nor could I convert one soul.

By the way in relation to you “handle”; the fear of the Lord is the BEGINNING of wisdom; I hope you understand the full meaning of this; it is obvious to me that you have no fear of the Lord.**

 

[Seeking12]

So we should believe you, Seeking, whose name gives no assurance that you are even sure what you believe? We should believe your fallible, man-made interpretation over the Church that has lasted over 2000 years? I don’t think so. You still never addressed my questions pertaining to John 6.

You should believe the word of God. What was your question to John 6?

 

[wisdomseeker]

**Matthew 18:18

Job 31:15

John 6:63; Jesus did explain exactly how he was speaking or have you not read what the Scripture says? As far as the disciples that left; then I refer you to 1 John 2:19.

Scripture will always verify it self; it is the gift of the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible in the first place , but you must first have the indwelling, then you must be diligent in reading, hearing and studying and God has commanded. No one is perfect in its interpretation; there are things we cannot fully understand in our finite fallen selves.**

i think you need to quit your pride and conceede the fact that somebody must have had all the writings from the Apostles and others which was kept safe from the heretics and those who want to destroy it. so the letters were in the right hands. because years later the True Christians the CC put them together. how did they know which writings were to become the Book you have today so you can use against the very own who gave you the Book? the letters were passed on to them. by the way the CC did not give it to anyone, it was taking by disobedient men with itchy ears who made up a whole new gospel. but we were warned of that from the beginning.

if you are honest and use reason you would investigate Christianity all the way to the Apostles. stop your fantasy and desire to be the authority in God’s Word. we Catholics already have an authority, Jesus the head of the Church our King, the Pope as the Prime Minister, the Bishops, the priests. that is what Jesus is talking about when He talks about the Kingdom.

let me remind you that the reason you put so much emphasy in the Bible it is because it is all you have. as for the CC she was taught by the Master our Lord and the Apostles and it continued to this day. so, dont worry about preaching to us.

 

[WMM]

Because I want to be here; it strengthen my faith, increases my prayer, helps my study and helps my ministry.

What ministry?

 

[WMM]

hey Catholics do you think that seeking12 fits in the category of invincible ignorance? yes or no?

Lactantius

**“It is, therefore, the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth; this, the domicile of faith; this, the temple of God. Whoever does not enter there or whoever does not go out from there, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. . . . Because, however, all the various groups of heretics are confident that they are the Christians and think that theirs is the Catholic Church, let it be known that this is the true Church, in which there is confession and penance and which takes a health-promoting care of the sins and wounds to which the weak flesh is subject” (Divine Institutes 4:30:11–13 [A.D. 307]). **

*This is an interesting question. I do not know.

Ignorance is said to be invincible when a person is unable to rid himself of it notwithstanding the employment of moral diligence, that is, such as under the circumstances is, morally speaking, possible and obligatory.

The obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same is somthing else again entirely.*

 

[JRKH]

I just thought I would interject that, while I know this thread is moving pretty quickly and some things can be overlooked, I find most interesting the questions and points that seeking12 chooses NOT to address. In many ways it is far more revealing of his position than the points he does.

Let us keep evangelizing in Christian Charity folks.

Peace
James