12 Russian intel officers indicted for DNC hacking in Mueller investigation

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Deliberately misinterpreting the analogy that referenced the NRA earlier.

Jagged didn’t make an analogy. He made an accusation about the NRA which, as usual, is false.

The analogy that jagged made and that you deliberately misinterpreted was:

There are many ways to influence an election. After all, the NRA puts out grades to rank candidates. Why do they do that if not to affect election results?

 

[JonNC]

You are totally focused on what the NRA has admitted…you are ignoring what they have been accused of.

And Trump was accused of collusion, which wasn’t true.

The fact is that the NRA raises millions from small donations. Here, from CNN:

The NRA’s ability to raise so much money from small donations is highly unusual for a special interest group, demonstrating its wide reaching support, said Sarah Bryner, research director at the Center for Responsive Politics.

The money powering the NRA

From a small-town pharmacist to a commercial pilot, it's not just gunmakers that are funding the NRA’s political battles. Thousands of everyday people are donating too – and their donations are surging.

money.cnn.com

And the amount the NRA donates is minuscule compared to labor unions and other special interests.

 

[JonNC]

The analogy that jagged made and that you deliberately misinterpreted was:

There are many ways to influence an election. After all, the NRA puts out grades to rank candidates. Why do they do that if not to affect election results?

Now you are misrepresenting. My response to this was:

They are Americans, acting within their constitutionally protected rights. So do numerous other groups.
Good for them!

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

The analogy that jagged made and that you deliberately misinterpreted was:

There are many ways to influence an election. After all, the NRA puts out grades to rank candidates. Why do they do that if not to affect election results?

Now you are misrepresenting. My response to this was:

They are Americans, acting within their constitutionally protected rights. So do numerous other groups.
Good for them!

This response of yours was also a misinterpretation. You said

There is no allegation in this indictment that any American citizen committed a crime. There is no allegation that the conspiracy changed the vote count or affected any election result.

So the analogy about the NRA was not meant to show anything they did that was illegal. It was meant to show there are other ways of influencing votes besides tampering with voting machines. That shows your quote above was incorrectly implying that the vote count could not have been changed any other way.

 

[petra22]

Let’s see. A citizen wants to be informed about the candidate for which they will cast their vote. Right? So they may want to know if a candidate supports the 2nd Amendment. That’s why NRA gives out a report card. To help the citizens be more informed. If you don’t support the 2nd Amendment then you can also look at the report card and vote for the candidate of your choice. Hmmm. It could inform your vote as well. It gives the voter more information with which to make a decision… Is that really affecting the election in a bad way as you seem to indicate. Do you not want an informed electorate???

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Let’s see. A citizen wants to be informed about the candidate for which they will cast their vote. Right? So they may want to know if a candidate supports the 2nd Amendment. That’s why NRA gives out a report card. To help the citizens be more informed. If you don’t support the 2nd Amendment then you can also look at the report card and vote for the candidate of your choice. Hmmm. It could inform your vote as well. It gives the voter more information with which to make a decision… Is that really affecting the election in a bad way as you seem to indicate. Do you not want an informed electorate???

I didn’t say it was bad affect. The purpose of the analogy was to show there was an effect. That what he Russians did was bad is a separate argument.

 

[JonNC]

Well, collusion is TBD as the Mueller investigation hasn’t wrapped up yet That said, the NRA spent $100M more in 2016 than previous years. Where did the money come from? All small donors. I wonder. Some think it came from the Russians. I know that if I were a member I’d want to know if my organization were a puppet of a foreign government but I have yet to see that demand from the so-called patriots that are members of the NRA.

The money came from patriotic Americans who did not trust HRC to defend their rights, including the right to arms and the rights to due process which Democrats in Congress had attacked during that year.
Some might think their money came from Russians. These are the same people who claim their was collusion between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, of which there has been no evidence at all in a year and a half

 

[HarryStotle]

ahkf:

I like the progression of Mueller criticism from the Trump side:

“He hasn’t indicted anyone!”

Mueller indicts people

“He hasn’t indicted anyone for election meddling!”

Mueller indicts people for election meddling

“He hasn’t indicted any Americans for election meddling!”

…I think we all know what step comes next.

Post of the year.

I would add that when the indictments of people at the Russian troll farm came, the response from Trump supporters here was, of course dismissive: No one indicted was directly ties to the Russian government of Putin. Apparently that important distinction didn’t mean that much after all.

I suppose if Russian troll farms can be indicted for influencing elections based merely upon the fact that they are Russian and that they portrayed Hillary in a negative light, there is no fair principle that wouldn’t prevent Mueller from indicting the MSMedia for portraying any candidate (in particular, President Trump) in a negative light. Heck, Mueller should start indicting every political candidate who points out the failures and shortcomings of their opponents as trying to “influence the election.” Wouldn’t just running in an election and trying to convince voters to vote for you be trying to “influence the election?”

Hey, why not just indict the entire political class for trying to “influence elections?” Might save us a whole lot of problems.

I mean, if Mueller had any Republican leanings, there are some lefties on CAF forums, that have channeled negative ideas about Trump (and thereby tried to influence the election,) who should also be indicted. Why not just universalize this stupidity to demonstrate how absurd it is?

Funny how lefties can be so “open borders” when permitting anyone and everyone to enter the country and even vote (the city Boston, for example) because “humanity has no boundaries.” And yet, when it suits the left to accuse foreign nationals of meddling, all of a sudden the American nation needs protection. MS-13 raping, beheading, and sodomizing American children and adolescents isn’t at all problematic – we are all human, after all – but a Russian troll farm posting untoward ideas about Hillary – well, THAT is beyond heinous.

 

[HarryStotle]

JonNC:

The money came from patriotic Americans who did not trust HRC to defend their rights, including the right to arms and the rights to due process which Democrats in Congress had attacked during that year.
Some might think their money came from Russians. These are the same people who claim their was collusion between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, of which there has been no evidence at all in a year and a half

Maybe the money did come from Americans; maybe it came from the Russians. I guess if I were beholden to the organization, I wouldn’t want to think it was a puppet of the Russian government too. It doesn’t make you a patriot to not ask the hard questions though.

So McCarthyism in the Democratic Party isn’t dead, then?

Care to explain how we are to distinguish between extreme leftists in the Democratic Party and the –presumably – still communist Russians?

Russian Communists = Bad. American Communists = Good.

Is that the case you are making? THEY are bad because, well, THEY are Russian, but our Communists are good because they are American, but not really because we now espouse globalism so we don’t favour Americanism, but we just don’t trust Russians. We, do, however, trust every other race and nation and creed so we will open our borders to EVERYONE. We don’t even mind that illegals and foreigners and EVERYONE else votes in our elections. Well, EVERYONE except Russians because they are opposed to us. “Us” meaning EVERYONE who is not Russian.

#WalkAway looks more and more reasonable and responsible every day.

Keeping posting. Your words are quite enlightening.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

LeafByNiggle:

I did watch the Strzok appearance before Congress, and I apparently drew an entirely different conclusion from it than you did.

Ideological presuppositions can do funny things to perceptions.

I wonder what hindsight Strzok’s wife could report after the fact. I would think she supposed his fidelity and honesty just as you do.

Strzok’s marital fidelity has no bearing on his testimony or the work of the FBI in general. As for his honesty in what he said before Congress, it made me proud of our FBI.

And I suppose his political fanaticism and ideations have “no bearing on his testimony” or his work in the FBI in general?

You don’t suppose lust nor romantic attachments (whether to sexual partners or ideologies) can in any way compromise the ethical judgements of operatives in positions of authority?

You had better revise your views on Trump’s past affairs, then, since they have no bearing on his work, according to your view.

Strzok’s emails tell a different story, no matter how much you wish to mitigate his “emotivations.”

 

[F_Marturana]

You don’t suppose lust nor romantic attachments (whether to sexual partners or ideologies) can in any way compromise the ethical judgements of operatives in positions of authority?

I think his judgment was impaired namely in using the device for his affair. That was very stupid. Maybe he wanted to get caught.

We all have opinions, I think it’s hard either way to find someone with a neutral opinion of Trump.

He’s been removed from the investigation.

The inspector general didn’t find bias.

 

[JonNC]

Maybe the money did come from Americans; maybe it came from the Russians. I guess if I were beholden to the organization, I wouldn’t want to think it was a puppet of the Russian government too. It doesn’t make you a patriot to not ask the hard questions though.

Same with Everytown. Maybe they get money from the Russians or George Soros or the Iranians. Or probably Americans, just like the NRA.
Either way, organizations such as the NRA are beholden to its members, not the other way around.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

HarryStotle:

LeafByNiggle:

I did watch the Strzok appearance before Congress, and I apparently drew an entirely different conclusion from it than you did.

Ideological presuppositions can do funny things to perceptions.

I wonder what hindsight Strzok’s wife could report after the fact. I would think she supposed his fidelity and honesty just as you do.

Strzok’s marital fidelity has no bearing on his testimony or the work of the FBI in general. As for his honesty in what he said before Congress, it made me proud of our FBI.

And I suppose his political fanaticism and ideations have “no bearing on his testimony” or his work in the FBI in general?

Not fanatical.

You don’t suppose lust nor romantic attachments (whether to sexual partners or ideologies) can in any way compromise the ethical judgements of operatives in positions of authority?

A possibility does not imply a certainty

 

[JonNC]

Maybe the members should step up and ask the questions then.

Maybe they have.

I would hate to be part of a Russian puppet organization myself, but I worry that too many on the right just don’t care.

Why would those on the right want to ally with what you call a communist state, which is clearly leftist progressive?
On the other hand, the previous administration, itself leftist progressive, allowed the Uranium One scheme, the Russian takeover of Crimea, and struck a bargain with Russia’s close ally, Iran. That was tens of billions of dollars to a close Russia ally compared to $2500 in dues!
Are Democrats worried about being beholden to an evil enemy?

 

[dvdjs]

if Russian troll farms can be indicted for influencing elections based merely upon the fact that they are Russian and that they portrayed Hillary in a negative light

You might like to read the indictment, if you would like to know what the various people indicted in this probe have been indicted for. It would save you a bunch of Rosanne Rosannadanna goings on.

 

[ProVobis]

Having 30,000 some in its employ, I’ll bet there’s a better system of checks and balances in the FBI then there is in the Republican Congress and the WH.

 

[petra22]

Maybe, but it doesn’t seem so at the very top…! Anyone try to understand what a conundrum the FBI was in over the last election? Don’t talk about ongoing investigations, their rule. But the e-mail server of HRC was looming large. MOST MSM said she was going to win the primary. Have we ever had a person win the nomination of a major party who (I bet a LOT of FBI agents suspected) had done illegal things just by having a private server for government work…) They were not ignorant. But they had an impossible job before them. What if she did win? What would come out about that private server? Not all FBI agents could keep the information quiet if it all started to unravel and then how would it look for the US? I can’t imagine what pressure the good agents were under during this last election cycle… seriously. I’m glad I didn’t have to live through it as an agent. And look what a mess now. I’ve read that there are at least 12 agents who want to give their side of the story… I for one would love to hear them…

 

[ProVobis]

You can bet the Republican Congress would have been all over Clinton had she won. And Trump of course never quits doing anything, especially tweeting.

 

[ProVobis]

(Post removed)

 

[grotto]

Another pathetic remark of disrespect towards our President. Obviously you do not realize how tired everyone is of this type of commentory.