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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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I’m done responding. He has only picked the parts of Casti that suit him and he’s ignoring all other church documents. Not worth it anymore.
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alice24
Guest
Maybe I am too worldly to talk with, but he also never answered my question if he was married or has worklife experience. But hey, who needs this worldly stuff?
I will tell my husband, who has weekend work until late in the night only to pay us two that we simply need to pray more to feed a soccer team of children.
I will tell my husband, who has weekend work until late in the night only to pay us two that we simply need to pray more to feed a soccer team of children.
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BoomBoomMancini
Guest
I get that this is the internet but you’re coming off a little salty.
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alice24
Guest
Do we know each other or why you describe me as conservative?!
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alice24
Guest
If I would have to live with this worldview he posted I would also sound salty, nervouse and unlucky
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Xantippe
Guest
I was speaking of delaying marriage until one is economically prepared for children, which is common CAF advice, and pretty defensible as a position.
My personal position (which is distinct from that position) is that it’s fine to do NFP in early marriage if circumstances are unfavorable, but that one has to be ready to deal with unexpected pregnancy–which I don’t think first and second year undergraduate college students typically are. So here’s my view of dating at different ages:
–high school–I’d more or less agree with a lot of standard advice about sticking with groups, going to dances or other events together, not having a lot of unstructured free time or car access.
–college/early young adult–Groups and events are still good. It’s not uncommon (especially at certain colleges) to meet one’s future spouse in college. Freshmen and sophomores are rarely in a position to get married, although college seniors might be. With marriage being more and more a real possibility and growing maturity, solo dating is more reasonable. (I’m personally a bit leery of people marrying when they don’t know if the other person is capable of getting up by 10 AM, working full time, or performing basic household tasks.)
–college graduates/graduate students/young working adults–This group is in the best position for marriage. They also probably won’t have a lot of access to groups and structured activities. They also (surprise!) have statistically a much lower divorce risk than the younger groups.
Indeed. It probably wouldn’t be every 9 months (especially if one observed the 6 week medically ordered abstinence), but a sustained 13 or 14 month spacing is not at all unrealistic (that’s my dad and his two siblings’ spacing).
And yes, it’s not hard at all to procreate one’s way straight into food stamps, WIC and Medicaid. If a family winds up needing that stuff, that’s fine by me, BUT it’s not unreasonable or unspiritual to want to do one’s best to avoid that lifestyle. See, for example, Simcha Fisher on how their family of 7 wound up on food stamps:
Any seriously struggling family in the US is eventually either going to be neglecting their children or going on welfare, and people who are pushing providentialism need to come to grips with where they are sending families in terms of loss of dignity, deprivation, and educational outcomes.
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pensmama87
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Xan, I’m pretty much with you about a dating “trajectory.” I remember teaching high school and just from overhearing student talk it became clear that there were a sizable number of 14-15 year olds who were in intense, exclusive relationships…and they almost always involved sexual activity. Several girls wore “promise rings” and were convinced they were going to marry their boyfriends. They felt very grown up, and I remember how grown up I felt at that age. But they’re still kids, and playing at these serious relationships was not good.
I think there’s room for friendships with the opposite sex, and practicing the etiquette of dating and mixed sex social events, but I think the intensity of exclusive relationships is in most cases better left until after high school.
I think there’s room for friendships with the opposite sex, and practicing the etiquette of dating and mixed sex social events, but I think the intensity of exclusive relationships is in most cases better left until after high school.
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Xantippe
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Yeah, from what Big Girl has heard at youth group, there are a lot of drama-filled relationships of a sort that are less and less common as you get older.
14-year-olds are just very dramatic, so of course their dating relationships are dramatic, too.
Edited to add: But at the same time, the danger of completely avoiding dances and other teen rituals is that kids wind up ignorant of basic dating etiquette or how to interact socially with the opposite sex–we see a lot of 20-somethings on CAF like that, and that’s not ideal, either–you can’t just avoid the opposite sex throughout teens and early young adulthood, start dating when you are finally ready to get married, and expect that to go well.
I just saw an ad for teen/family dance lessons, and I’m seriously thinking of putting the big kids in it. I don’t foresee a need for them to learn meringue at the moment, but country dances are a survival skill in our area (socially speaking).
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Xantippe
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But we can easily bite off more than we can chew. Let’s not blame God for our own lack of willingness to foresee the natural consequences of our own actions.
One can be pretty confident that if one doesn’t have sex, one won’t get pregnant.
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Xantippe
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There’s no guarantee, but it’s a completely foreseeable and expected result in a sexually active woman of childbearing age.
God isn’t sending babies via stork.
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alice24
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alice24
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Again, are you married?
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pensmama87
Guest
One thing kids at my high school (especially the boys) really hated was the ballroom dance unit every year in gym class, which was taught by a guy who ran a studio. Looking back, though, it was probably one of the most useful things we did, just for the social lessons involved.
We have cotillion here, which I know in some places can be really fancy pants but here has a reputation for being practical and for “normal people,” to teach social graces. Since my boys don’t have a lot of opportunity to be around girls outside of school, I’m considering it when they get a bit older.
We have cotillion here, which I know in some places can be really fancy pants but here has a reputation for being practical and for “normal people,” to teach social graces. Since my boys don’t have a lot of opportunity to be around girls outside of school, I’m considering it when they get a bit older.
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Xantippe
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We have cotillion here, too, but it’s more fancy pants.
If we were richer, I’d do it, but we do have these teen/family dance classes that are a nice budget option.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
I am betting that is a “no”.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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If he is married he’s never had to feed a family of 4 in a HCOL area with $60 a week, that’s for sure!alice24:
I am betting that is a “no”.
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Xantippe
Guest
God is merciful, but most of us in this thread are going to hell, even if we’re practicing Catholics?
And this is supposed to be “the Good News”?
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Cruciferi
Guest
That is absolute absurdity.
Revelation 12:4
“Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth”
1/3 of the Angels rebelled. Yet, you assume that the majority of humanity is damned! If so few are saved, then you’re saying that God has lost to Satan and that he’s not omnipotent. You’re giving the Devil too much credit. He’s a lowly worm when compared with God. God’s ability to educate and enlighten us is limitless! More will be saved for My God is an Awesome God!
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katiecall87
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I love listening to Patrick Madrid. He reminds me of my father in law for some reason- and I just enjoy listening on top of hearing all the awesome advice he offers folks.
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BoyGenius
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Actually, if it was rambling, then I would not had received likes on a few of them. In addition, most often the people who call it “rambling” or other negative comments, generally don’t like the argument (not because it has to do with rambling.) Because it questions their judgment.
If I say based on the OP’s own presentation (i…e my son makes out with this girl.) And I have to reason the rules of biology/hormones/child bearing which are quite obvious from the OP’s own premise/facts, then I’d have to conclude it’s error in judgement for them to go along to “get along” (Jesse Jackson once stated.)
From that, I deduced how that swings so close of a risk where they can with strong potentiality get pregnant. And, that they are teens (I was one. As well as other people on this board were.) And with that, merely separating teenagers on two floors (as if they will not break that) won’t stop them. But just as one person commented, they will do it anyways regardless of the parental supervision. So, from there, I concluded you are simply going along with it, regardless if they get away with it or not.
And that appears to me as imprudent and risky.
There was no rambling, but dragging the OP’s own question (hence why they publish this on a Catholic Answer’s forum for whatever reason I do not know.) And that brought about a thought experiment pointing out a contradiction. Parent’s want their own judgement to satisfy. And yet, through the absurd “thought experiment” I ran because it was outrageous for anyone to consider the prospects of some adult dating a minor for the reason’s that any kind of engagement of a person that age is incredulous. Because, any minor to engage in that way is wrong. That’s a fact. They are not equipped or even mature. They haven’t even finished their education, or even able to get a job as any reasonable person would.
So again, the knowing your son “makes out” with a girl falls upon the OP’s premise. And that is dangerous ground. I know that, because my family has done stupid things like that. And so from there, I gave actual experiences to show how imprudent it is.
Pretty glaringly obvious. it’s not rambling. Rather, it’s having to look more thoroughly at a situation, and not be so naive.
If I say based on the OP’s own presentation (i…e my son makes out with this girl.) And I have to reason the rules of biology/hormones/child bearing which are quite obvious from the OP’s own premise/facts, then I’d have to conclude it’s error in judgement for them to go along to “get along” (Jesse Jackson once stated.)
From that, I deduced how that swings so close of a risk where they can with strong potentiality get pregnant. And, that they are teens (I was one. As well as other people on this board were.) And with that, merely separating teenagers on two floors (as if they will not break that) won’t stop them. But just as one person commented, they will do it anyways regardless of the parental supervision. So, from there, I concluded you are simply going along with it, regardless if they get away with it or not.
And that appears to me as imprudent and risky.
There was no rambling, but dragging the OP’s own question (hence why they publish this on a Catholic Answer’s forum for whatever reason I do not know.) And that brought about a thought experiment pointing out a contradiction. Parent’s want their own judgement to satisfy. And yet, through the absurd “thought experiment” I ran because it was outrageous for anyone to consider the prospects of some adult dating a minor for the reason’s that any kind of engagement of a person that age is incredulous. Because, any minor to engage in that way is wrong. That’s a fact. They are not equipped or even mature. They haven’t even finished their education, or even able to get a job as any reasonable person would.
So again, the knowing your son “makes out” with a girl falls upon the OP’s premise. And that is dangerous ground. I know that, because my family has done stupid things like that. And so from there, I gave actual experiences to show how imprudent it is.
Pretty glaringly obvious. it’s not rambling. Rather, it’s having to look more thoroughly at a situation, and not be so naive.
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