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myfavoritmartin
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Followers of Peter Waldo
The Waldensians.
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The Waldensians.
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mercygate
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The constant teaching of the Church has been that Christ is truly Present in the Eucharist. If “fathers” believed or taught otherwise they taught in contradiction to the faith of the Church. But this is off topic.
This thread is about the promulgation of the Dogma of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
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estesbob
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Who are those? And even if they didnt undertstnad the true nature of the Eucharist doesnt mean they had anything in common with Protestants.
I run into this a lot-people who claim that some Church fathers supposedly disagreed with something the Church teaches and therefore that means they were akin to modenr day protestants. Of course no one can offer proof that anyone prior to the 16th century embraced any of the doctrines that are so central to Protestantism.
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myfavoritmartin
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My point is the the HS guides us all to understanding in truth and spirit, once we are born again, and the HS indwells within us. If someone is blindly believing what they are being taught by other humans, they should be questioned, we are called to rightly divide the word of God!
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Tom317
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I often wonder if any of this bantering back-and-forth does any real good. Myfavoritemartin has no interest in the faith, other then to bash it…so what good does this thread do?
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myfavoritmartin
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Many church fathers disagreed with many things the “Church” now teaches!
Look into previos threads I’ve started there is one all about this exact issue!
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mercygate
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The belief that the Holy Spirit will guide every individual into “all the truth” independently of the pillar and ground of truth – namely, the Church – is naively unscriptural and absolutely indefensible.
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myfavoritmartin
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My guess is this thread should make one read more about what they believe and get them to seek the truth, if your church teaches the truth then “NO HARM” right?
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Tom317
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People here are very well studied and know their faith incredibly well. These threads are silly because you are not here to learn, you are here to tear down.
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myfavoritmartin
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I didn’t say “ALL” truth (we are filthy rags), I said truth and spirit and it is scriptural.
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estesbob
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Peter Waldo was a Church Father? Although he did beleieve in lay preacihng and the importnce of scripture there are few other similarities between what Waldo taght and what protestants beleive.
But even giveing you the beneift of the doubt the question would be why did God wait untl 1140 to clarify protetstant dogma?
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myfavoritmartin
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We are told in scriptue that we do not need men to teach us.
1Jn 2:27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him
Spoken from an Apostle …
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estesbob
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The question is not can we find somene in the past who disagreed with church teaching-the quewtion is can we find anyone before 1140 who even remotely supports Protestant Dogma. it is a quantum leap to say that since so and so disagreed on the nature of the Eucharist he was a Protestant. If you can find a Church father who beleives in Sola Scripturs. Sola Fidelis or OSAS please point him out.
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deb1
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i did a search on new advent for peter waldo. he was certainly not protestant. he was a rich man who decided to live in poverty. he gave his wealth to his wife and then deposited his two young daughters in a nunnery.
newadvent.org/cathen/15527b.htm
apparently the waldensians did no work but took exteme vows of poverty and wondered around preaching, supported by others. members were allowed to leave their wives and family. **Married persons who desired to join them were permitted to dissolve their union without the consent of their consort. **
peter waldo, himself, thought that he had apostolic descent and that his followers could forgive sins. they also believed in the sacraments.
this just sounds like a catholic with some mental disorder, not a protestant.
hundreds of years later these waldinsian communities were either absorbed into protestantism in some cases, were persecuted by the protestants!
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VociMike
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There is no father who denied the Real Presence. Look as long and as hard as you like, you will not find one.
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myfavoritmartin
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Bob,
Just because the political RCC squelched people in her opposition doesn’t mean they weren’t around. To think likewise is naive.
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estesbob
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Per your personal interpertation. What qualifies you to interpert Scripture for the rest if us?
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VociMike
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Every encounter I’ve ever had with Protestants who want me to investigate my faith further has led me to a stronger Catholic faith. It’s happening here too. I see the responses of the other Catholics here and my faith in the Church to preserve and to teach the full and true gospel is strengthened, not undermined.
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myfavoritmartin
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Try going to a web page without a biased bend!
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mercygate
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But in Jn 16:13, Jesus did say he would send the Spirit to guide us “into all the truth.” If you are content with less than what our Lord has promised, well, I guess that’s your lookout. But it’s bad sportsmanship to claim that the Catholic faith is wrong because you choose not to embrace the fullness of Our Lord’s promise.
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