1P5 Article "More and More, It Looks Like Tradition is the Future of the Church"

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In France, traditionalist priests are set to outnumber novus ordo priests by around 2050, according to the demographics
 
I know there are grains of truth in this article, but it certainly sounds like it was written by Chicken Little for the National Enquirer.
 
Maximian said:
In France, traditionalist priests are set to outnumber novus ordo priests by around 2050, according to the demographics
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There are no “Novus Ordo priests”. This is not respectful to the sacrament.

Mr. Skojec refers to SSPX as if it were traditional. Part of being traditional for a priest is being in union with the local ordinary. They’re not. So not traditional.

Part of being a traditional Catholic media (confer Pascendi, among other sources) is to be in union with its local ordinary. OnePeterFive is not. So not Traditional.
 
In France, the Communauté St. Martin forms priests that are deeply respectful of tradition and orthodoxy, but in the Ordinary Form of the Mass. They in fact put out a beautiful antiphonary that I use, with all the day hours of the post-Conciliar Liturgy of the Hours noted for Gregorian chant, with the Latin on one side, and the liturgical French translation on the other. Psalm tones are given in all the modes for both Latin and French chanting.

This is my idea of tradition: adapting to the will of the Church as expressed by the Council Fathers, while deeply respectful of the Church’s patrimony and adapting it to apply to the modern liturgy.

They also send new priest in pairs to staff parishes, to avoid the loneliness and solitude that has tempted many priests into the scandalous behaviour that has caused so much damage to the Church.
 
Whether anyone likes !P5 or not, there are some important takeaways from this article. Some that I am seeing happening right now in my own parish. The doors have been opened back up from the virus and like the old children’s game we used to play with our fingers, the question is, “where are all the people?”.

Very few have returned. Maybe they are still scared of the virus but our parish does a lot to keep people safe. I have texted parishioners myself reminding them the doors are open and we are practicing covid safety, some I thought for sure would be back when the doors opened, but they just are not returning, not right now at least.

Some did find other churches, either making the long drive to a TLM, watching TLM’s online or going to protestant churches that opened long before our Catholic parish did.

Time for some prayers.
 
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commenter said:
Mr. Skojec refers to SSPX as if it were traditional. Part of being traditional for a priest is being in union with the local ordinary. They’re not. So not traditional.
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Also, one thing that is often overlooked is that SSPX is presented by its supporters as this monolithic group that is growing, when in fact several groups have split from the SSPX either to return to Rome or to be a separate entity.
 
Dan_Defender said:
when in fact several groups have split from the SSPX either to return to Rome or to be a separate entity.
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It is true that there are some groups that split from the SSPX, such as what is now the
SSPV and some returned to Rome, such as what is now the FSSP, but the SSPX itself is growing also.
 
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Diocesan TLM, FSSP, ICKSP, SSPX…regardless… I think in 5 - 10 years the EF will be the OF.
 
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The SSPX, as a monolithic group, does continue to grow. As does the FSSP which split off from them.
 
The SSPX is a monolithic group. Those who have split are not part of it. But despite those splits, itsnumbers are still growing.

It’s like saying “The Catholic Church is presented as this monolithic group, whereas in fact several groups have split off from it such as the Orthodox and Protestants”
 
MagdalenaRita said:
Some did find other churches, either making the long drive to a TLM, watching TLM’s online or going to protestant churches that opened long before our Catholic parish did.
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If someone is willing to switch to a Protestant church, even for a time — and let’s hope and pray that it is just “for a time” — then their Catholicity was a mile wide and an inch deep to begin with. Not good.

I have exceedingly grave reasons for doing everything humanly possible not to get the virus — and just tonight I became very ill for a time, became powerfully sleepy, stomach hurting, was hurting all over, and could barely move (that’s why I’m up in the middle of the night, it overpowered me and then I woke back up), gave me a scare, wondered if I could have caught the virus — and I will not be assisting at Holy Mass for quite some time, dispensation or no dispensation, until all of this passes (and probably not until they develop a vaccine, which I shall take). I go out, and do all the necessities to keep my family going, but that is it.

So I don’t know how crowded the Masses are, who’s staying home and who’s not. I am mildly concerned, from what I’m reading, that this could signal a long-term drop in Mass attendance — people just get out of the habit, and this is terrible to say, but start enjoying having an extra hour or two on Sunday to relax and not have to worry about being any particular place. That wouldn’t speak well of their Catholicity either, and I hope and pray that doesn’t become a widespread phenomenon as well.
 
Maximian said:
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commenter:
Part of being traditional for a priest is being in union with the local ordinary.
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Unless the ordinary is wilfully repudiating traditional church teaching, which is often the case.
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The far Right, including SSPX and 1p5, begin by opposing abuse of authority by extreme liberals. The chapel is a temporary means to an end.

But eventually they try to pull people away from every diocese, even where the ordinary is conservative. The chapel pulls people from every parish, even those that offer the EF. The SSPX website attacks FSSP more than any other order, more than they attack Planned Parenthood.

Feeding the chapel, and the website, becomes an end in itself. The bishop, every bishop, is deemed a problem not because he is liberal but because he is a bishop.

Genuine Traditional Catholics evangelize, seek to bring individuals into the Catholic Faith, then let them choose which form of Mass they prefer. The far Right isn’t doing that, they are trying to move Catholics around.
 
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yankeesouth said:
Diocesan TLM, FSSP, ICKSP, SSPX…regardless… I think in 5 - 10 years the EF will be the OF.
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I don’t think so.

We’ve had the TLM in our city for well over 20 years now. It has not grown much.

ALL Christian churches, including the big Protestant megachurches, are losing people. It is not surprising that Catholic churches especially lose people–many of my co-workers are absolutely turned off by the sex scandals in the Catholic Church–and in many Protestant churches.

Perhaps some of you have followed the scandal surrounding Pastor John Ortberg, who recently left his very prestigious pulpit at the Menlo Presbyterian Church in California. I know John well–went to school with him. LOVE his books! LOVE his preaching!

But he got caught up in a scandal–if you’re curious you can look it up. It wasn’t because of any sin that he committed, but nevertheless, it was enough to cause him to fall from favor.

I am grieving for John, but I know his faith will anchor him and God will be with him through everything.

The point is, this is one of the most respected and beloved Protestant pastors, but now he’s out–and that keeps happening in Protestant churches (although the media seems to ignore these stories and keeps going after Catholic scandals)–and all of this gives people an excuse to avoid any involvement with ANY church.

We are bleeding members, people. And it has nothing to do with incense and chant vs. tank tops and guitars.
 
Maximian said:
Can you define far right, as opposed to right?
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By “right”, I mean conservative, respectful of just authority, Traditional. Far right would mean inherently suspicious of most authority, Traditionalist.

We live in an anti authority era, opposing authority itself (not just abuse of authority) of parents, Police, teachers, especially religious authority. The media isn’t so much anti Catholic as it is anti hierarchy.

I’m not naive about authority abuses, I’m retired from CPS! But I saw how justifiable anger towards a few parents could be manipulated into undermining authority of all parents.

1p5 didn’t create the anti religious authority climate, but they benefit from it, expand it a little. Genuine Traditional Catholics are trying not to follow the climate, the “World”.

In the long run those who follow the “hermeneutics of suspicion” towards current religious authorities will, or their children will, ignore past religious authority too; so much for Tradition.
 
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Maximian said:
Ok, well what term do you want me to use to describe a priest who is only trained in the Novus Ordo?
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Putting labels on people is not a good idea.

Come to think of it, one poster on this thread labelled people as “far Right”.
Not a good idea.
 
Maximian said:
Ok, well what term do you want me to use to describe a priest who is only trained in the Novus Ordo?
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How about just… priest? Some priests have specialist training in various disciplines such as liturgy. One monk priest at our abbey has specific training as a confessor, is the abbey’s main confessor, and is regularly asked to go to Rome to Saint Paul’s Outside the Walls to hear large numbers of confessions from pilgrims and tourists.

A priest trained to offer the EF is nothing different, just a priest with extra training in a specific discipline. One who does not have that training is just a priest… who may have some other specific expertise.

I greatly am irritated by anything that divides us into an EF or OF Church.

We are the Church, period. And her priests are priests, period.
 
My parish acts like they are following the covid guidelines, but I think it is more like “lip service”. My parish is in a smaller city where in general people are not taking the virus very seriously.
I have tried other parishes who take it more seriously, so I prefer to go to those other parishes.
 
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