1P5 Article "More and More, It Looks Like Tradition is the Future of the Church"

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I agree with the article. It’s not merely an issue of liturgical rites, but returning to a proper understanding of doctrine and Traditional practices.

Just putting aside the debate between the NO and the TLM, there’s no reason that proper reverence and authentic Catholic teachings can’t be taught at a NO parish.

The problem isn’t just a difference between the rites, but a difference in what the Catholic Church represents and how they view the necessity of Jesus and His Church with regards to Salvation.

The content coming from the pulpits of the SSPX chapel and the FSSP parish I’ve attended, has been vastly different from the NO parishes I used to frequent.
 
OraLabora said:
A priest trained to offer the EF is nothing different, just a priest with extra training in a specific discipline. One who does not have that training is just a priest… who may have some other specific expertise.

I greatly am irritated by anything that divides us into an EF or OF Church.
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Perhaps some priests who have extra training in offering the Extraordinary Form grew up in a school where Latin was offered from Kindergarten through high school. It may or may not have been a Catholic school–my children attended a secular prep school that offered Latin for all grade levels, and many of the students took Latin for 12 full years; in fact, the school had many Gold Medalists in the National Latin Exam. The school still does this, by the way; last year, I accompanied the school choirs, and at one of the programs, I listened to an speech, all in Latin, by one of the teachers. Several of the students also did shorter presentations in Latin.

So someone who grew up learning and speaking Latin would presumably be quite comfortable learning the rubrics of the EF of the Mass!
 
OraLabora said:
…
A priest trained to offer the EF is nothing different, just a priest with extra training in a specific discipline. One who does not have that training is just a priest… who may have some other specific expertise.
…

We are the Church, period. And her priests are priests, period.
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Well, your answer seems incomplete at best. There is an FSSP seminary, you know. Maybe an SSPX one as well. I don’t know. But here’s a lovely news story about the FSSP seminary in the US.

 
27lw said:
Well, your answer seems incomplete at best. There is an FSSP seminary, you know. Maybe an SSPX one as well. I don’t know. But here’s a lovely news story about the FSSP seminary in the US.
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That’s no different than religious order priests. They follow the charism of their order or congregation. For the FSSP, part of their charism is that they uniquely offer the EF Mass. For Benedictines, the priests are monks first, then priests. Liturgy is regulated by each individual abbey, some offer the EF, some offer the OF. They aren’t monk-OF-priests or monk-EF-priests, they are monk-priests. The abbot (in consultation with the community) can change from one form to the other if he desires.

The important thing is that they are, in their priestly duties, first and foremost Catholic priests of the Roman Rite, which offers two forms of the same rite. Some say Mass in one form, some in the other, some in both forms.

And don’t get me going on the SSPX. I’m talking about priests in full communion with Rome.
 
Okay, would you fill me in, please? Because I am ignorant of religious seminaries. Are you saying that there are religious seminaries that only prepare that order for the priesthood, the way that the FSSP seminary does?
Thanks!
 
27lw said:
Are you saying that there are religious seminaries that only prepare that order for the priesthood, the way that the FSSP seminary does?
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Oh my…YES

In fact, I’d say most religious orders with priests train their own exclusively.
 
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Sorry - I’m apparently “in too deep” when I start making these assumptions that if I know something, everyone else surely knows, too! 😂 Unusual thing for me!

In this area, I know the Dominicans, Franciscans (both conventual and friars immaculate), Jesuits, and Carmelites all go off to their own places, unless it’s an exception case. The Benedictines here do, too, but they’re also our primary diocesan seminary, so they do mix in that regard. Diocesan seminarians have 3-4 “regular” options on where to go with the bishop’s approval.
 
Cor_ad_Cor said:
Sorry - I’m apparently “in too deep” when I start making these assumptions that if I know something, everyone else surely knows, too! 😂 Unusual thing for me!

In this area, I know the Dominicans, Franciscans (both conventual and friars immaculate), Jesuits, and Carmelites all go off to their own places, unless it’s an exception case. The Benedictines here do, too, but they’re also our primary diocesan seminary, so they do mix in that regard. Diocesan seminarians have 3-4 “regular” options on where to go with the bishop’s approval.
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So, these seminaries also serve people who are not of that order? I’m confused now. Or are they secret? The “only for Jesuits” seminary, or “only for Benedictines” seminary? The way that the FSSP seminary doesn’t serve laypeople.
 
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27lw said:
Okay, I told you I’m ignorant! 😂 Can you give me some examples?
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The Benedictines in our congregation form their own deacons and priests, and of course almost all (I know an exception to the rule) deacons are transitional. They typically don’t sent their priests to seminaries, but they often send them out for specific training and for advanced degrees. Each priest tends to have his own specialty. For example, our second most recently ordained priest is a specialist in bible exegesis. He was sent to the Institut Catholique in Paris for his degree in that subject. Some priests were sent to Sant’ Anselmo in Rome to learn liturgy or Benedictine spirituality. Our most recently-ordained priest, learned philosophy (and cheese-making but that’s another story!), and a retired philosophy prof was brought in to train him.

If you ask to see a priest when you visit a monastery, depending on the reason a priest will be dispatched who specialized in that area: pastoral care, psychology, confessor, for instance.

Bottom line they don’t send them to seminary, they train their own, or rather coordinate the training of their own, and at the abbot’s request taking into consideration special talents and interests, the candidate will specialize in this or that subject. The diocese is not directly involved in coordinating their training. Benedictine priests are highly learned, and usually have advanced degrees, in addition to the degrees they may have earned before entering the monastery.

Of course a priest (and deacon) can only be ordained by a bishop, and on ordination day the local bishop comes to the abbey even though the abbey is not under his jurisdiction. In fact while not under the bishop’s jurisdiction, relations are almost always cordial.
27lw said:
So, these seminaries also serve people who are not of that order? I’m confused now. Or are they secret? The “only Jesuits” seminary, or “only for Benedictines” seminary?
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They may. The abbey near Vancouver BC (a different congregation from ours) runs a seminary for the archdiocese:

https://vocationsvancouver.ca/seminary/seminary-of-christ-the-king/
 
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As a rule, no. There may be exceptions, and I probably confused matters mentioning our Benedictine monastery here; they run a “separate/not really separate” seminary as one of their ministries, and the historical deal with our archdiocese is that they are “our” seminary. They’re somewhat unique in that respect, and that they’re a rather large monastery - and it’s an Archabbey - only 2 exist in the US, less than a dozen worldwide.
 
27lw said:
Okay, thank you very much for the detailed explanation. Not to quibble, but it does seem like the Christ the King seminary does serve others, not just the one particular order?
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Yes it is the de facto diocesan seminary in that archdiocese, in addition to training the abbey’s priests, but they do also send their candidates (and recently ordained priests) out for specialized training. I ran into one of their priests at Sant’ Anselmo in Rome, he was there for a couple of years.
 
@Cor_ad_Cor
@OraLabora
Well that was my question - if the seminaries serve only their own religious order, the way that the FSSP serves only its own seminarians.
So the answer is “no”, not “yes”.
Thanks for clarifying.
 
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27lw said:
@Cor_ad_Cor
@OraLabora
Well that was my question - if the seminaries serve only their own religious order, the way that the FSSP serves only its own seminarians.
So the answer is “no”, not “yes”.
Thanks for clarifying.
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I don’t really get what you mean by serving ‘only their own religious order’ but the reason there are different orders is to accommodate different charisms. I’m in a Franciscan parish which includes Franciscan schools. The friars were trained in Franciscan seminaries formed by the spirituality of St Francis and his followers, St Clare and St Anthony of Padua. The Dominicans on the other hand attract men interested in education and philosophy and the charisms surrounding those fields. There there are secular priests who are formed in diocesan seminaries and not under specific Saints charisms and they serve in diocesan Churchs.

Young men who are preparing for the priesthood are encouraged to recognize their spiritual gifts and are then guided towards a specific order or the general diocesan seminary.
 
Peeps said:
We are bleeding members, people. And it has nothing to do with incense and chant vs. tank tops and guitars.
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I think Tradition and especially its outward manifestation in the traditional rites and customs that were our common heritage makes it easier for people’s faith to weather the sins or scandals of a particular generation of leaders. Even subconsciously, such traditions make it more clear that the Church and faith are something greater than those leaders, something that is not just theirs, but belongs to us and all those who came before us for generations and generations. One would be more motivated to defend such a common treasure against such scandalous individuals, than to abandon it as part and parcel with those individuals. A church that seems firmly rooted in this time is more associated with a bad generation of the same time–the leaders seem more its masters than its servants.
 
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Peeps said:
I don’t think so.

We’ve had the TLM in our city for well over 20 years now. It has not grown much.
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Just out of curiosity, is it diocesan? Also, is it prayed by a priest who prefers the Latin mass over the Mass of St. Paul VI?

The reason I ask is because there SEEMS to be a tendency for Latin Masses offered by the FSSP, Institute of Christ the King, and other Religious Orders/Institutes in full communion to be growing.

For example: while there are PLENTY of good Diocesan Latin Mass Churches, I know of one in a neighboring dioceses where people will drive PAST it into another state and diocese in order to attend the FSSP parish.

This particular Latin Mass is prayed by a pastor who normally prays the Ordinary Form and took over the parish after the previous pastor died. Ironically, there is a priest in that dioceses who loves the Latin mass and who is pastor a few miles away, but isn’t given the opportunity to pray the Latin Mass publicly. If that priest was given the Latin mass community, it might start to grow more (or maybe not).

My point: sometimes it’s more than just offering the Mass. A lot of people prefer a Latin Mass Personal Parish (when possible) and are often willing to drive a little farther if it means receiving all seven sacraments in the Extraordinary Form.

God bless
 
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As FYI - I know the FSSP parish in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia is adding a 3rd Sunday Mass this coming Sunday because August 2020 mass attendance is now higher than pre COVID-19
 
I originally thought 10 - 20 years and that still might be the case but reading social media outside of CAF, one can see evidence of a a speedier transformation.
 
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