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frommi
Guest
Do you want to answer any of the questions I’ve asked?
Or are you just interested in passing judgment on my level of Catholicism? More of which I’ve forgotten than you’ve generally bothered to learn apparently.
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Or are you just interested in passing judgment on my level of Catholicism? More of which I’ve forgotten than you’ve generally bothered to learn apparently.
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Walking_Home
Guest
Do you want to answer any of the questions I’ve asked?
Or are you just interested in passing judgment on my level of Catholicism? More of which I’ve forgotten than you’ve generally bothered to learn apparently.
I agree—you have forgotten much—including the papacy. Maybe–instead of forgotten–converted into other.
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frommi
Guest
I have not forgotten the papacy…
I agree—you have forgotten much—including the papacy. Maybe–instead of forgotten–converted into other.
I’m not sure what the papacy has to do with this thread.
I’ll ask the question again…
Which speakers at the RE Congress threaten to break the unity of the church that the Vicar of Peter is responsible for maintaining? Did one of them ordain a woman recently and I missed it? Is one of them planning on handing out the birth control patch at the congress?
Help me see what the hubbub is all about…I’m still waiting…and wondering when the topic will turn from me to the topic of the thread.
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bones_IV
Guest
Frommi, you can’t call yourself catholic and say that papacy has nothing to do with this thread. That’s intellectual dishonesty.
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frommi
Guest
The papacy does not have a lot to do with the RE congress…which is the thread you started.Frommi, you can’t call yourself catholic and say that papacy has nothing to do with this thread. That’s intellectual dishonesty.
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bones_IV
Guest
The point of this thread is that they are being defiant towards the holy father.The papacy does not have a lot to do with the RE congress…which is the thread you started.
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frommi
Guest
Again…how so? Where is the ‘defiance’?The point of this thread is that they are being defiant towards the holy father.
The Holy Father has as his one most important visual role maintaining the unity of the church…so the question becomes…again…how are these speakers defying the unity of our church?
There’s no proof here…only half truths.
It’s easy to slam something that you don’t attend…mock things you don’t understand. I see that in a lot of these threads…
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bones_IV
Guest
If the Vatican says in the GIRM that u can’t do something during mass, then you obey it. Or it’s disobedience to the Holy Spirit.Again…how so? Where is the ‘defiance’?
The Holy Father has as his one most important visual role maintaining the unity of the church…so the question becomes…again…how are these speakers defying the unity of our church?
There’s no proof here…only half truths.
It’s easy to slam something that you don’t attend…mock things you don’t understand. I see that in a lot of these threads…
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frommi
Guest
Pretty sad…you bring up the list of speakers…can’t find a scandal to point out…so you start going on about glass chalices…If the Vatican says in the GIRM that u can’t do something during mass, then you obey it. Or it’s disobedience to the Holy Spirit.
Weak argument.
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scylla
Guest
Ok lets look at the list of speakers. Lets look to see if we can find one who is rejecting Catholic teaching and promoting heresy…
Hmm, Edwina Gately the first one. Didn’t take long…
She promotes women ordination which is contrary to Catholic belief and directly contradicts the Pope on his statement that it is not possible and outside Catholic authority.
This is akin to me stating that I want to ordain myself a priest. It shows a level of arrogance and disdain for God, which is directly contrary to Catholic belief in humility and obedience.
The job of everyone in the Catholic Church is maintaining the truth. This is even more serious when you are a pastor or Bishop. To even allow for slight error is a horrible offense against God as your responsibility is huge.
Truth plus a little bit of error equals= error
So to allow for people who question the Catholic faith or promote beliefs contrary to it is a serious dereliction of duty and a failure as a pastor or leader.
I can look at the rest of the presenters from the conference but just looking at the first one in the list is enough to convince me that whoever invited this person doesn’t care enough about the salvation of souls. To be willing to allow error to be taught and possibly lead people astray in the name of Catholicism, that is an offense against God.
In Christ
Scylla
Hmm, Edwina Gately the first one. Didn’t take long…
She promotes women ordination which is contrary to Catholic belief and directly contradicts the Pope on his statement that it is not possible and outside Catholic authority.
This is akin to me stating that I want to ordain myself a priest. It shows a level of arrogance and disdain for God, which is directly contrary to Catholic belief in humility and obedience.
The job of everyone in the Catholic Church is maintaining the truth. This is even more serious when you are a pastor or Bishop. To even allow for slight error is a horrible offense against God as your responsibility is huge.
Truth plus a little bit of error equals= error
So to allow for people who question the Catholic faith or promote beliefs contrary to it is a serious dereliction of duty and a failure as a pastor or leader.
I can look at the rest of the presenters from the conference but just looking at the first one in the list is enough to convince me that whoever invited this person doesn’t care enough about the salvation of souls. To be willing to allow error to be taught and possibly lead people astray in the name of Catholicism, that is an offense against God.
In Christ
Scylla
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frommi
Guest
Two things:Ok lets look at the list of speakers. Lets look to see if we can find one who is rejecting Catholic teaching and promoting heresy…
Hmm, Edwina Gately the first one. Didn’t take long…
- Edwina Gately runs a laudable program that provides support and guidance to women leaving behind a life of prostitution. She is offering a hand of mercy and guidance to those women and living out the Gospel injuctions of Christ to help the poor in spirit.
- A heresy is officially rejecting a dogma of the church. At worst, this woman is guilty of dissent…something far different from being a heretic. And what evidence is there that she has promoted women’s ordination since JPII spoke in his ‘definitive’ way on the matter?
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scylla
Guest
- I agree she has done very good things, probably more good things than many people on this forum have done, myself included. The comparison between Edwina and the people on this forum or anyone else is pointless as we are not talking about comparisons, but what is true and faithful.
- Ok, lets call it dissent, which is rejecting\questioning Church teaching while still calling yourself Catholic. She supports Call to Action which is evident on her website. Call to Action promotes women priests, the link is still on her website. So at this current time she supports dissident beliefs and rejection of the Pope’s statements. This is after the Pope’s definitive statement on the matter which also shows deliberate disobedience to the Pope.
Would you like to look at the next person on the list?
God Bless,
Scylla
Truth matters
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bones_IV
Guest
Again, are u a priest?Two things:
Ms. Gately has done more to serve the people of God than those in these forums that would rather misuse terminology to stir the pot unnecessairly.
- Edwina Gately runs a laudable program that provides support and guidance to women leaving behind a life of prostitution. She is offering a hand of mercy and guidance to those women and living out the Gospel injuctions of Christ to help the poor in spirit.
- A heresy is officially rejecting a dogma of the church. At worst, this woman is guilty of dissent…something far different from being a heretic. And what evidence is there that she has promoted women’s ordination since JPII spoke in his ‘definitive’ way on the matter?
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frommi
Guest
For the purposes of this forum…my baptism is ordination enoughAgain, are u a priest?
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frommi
Guest
I wish I could debate this fully without steering this whole thread off track…Good deeds do not make up for disobedience.
- I agree she has done very good things, probably more good things than many people on this forum have done, myself included. The comparison between Edwina and the people on this forum or anyone else is pointless as we are not talking about comparisons, but what is true and faithful.
Is supporting women priests, supporting heresy? I would say definitely, as it misrepresents one of the fundamental identities of Christ’s incarnation.
- Ok, lets call it dissent, which is rejecting\questioning Church teaching while still calling yourself Catholic. She supports Call to Action which is evident on her website. Call to Action promotes women priests, the link is still on her website. So at this current time she supports dissident beliefs and rejection of the Pope’s statements. This is after the Pope’s definitive statement on the matter which also shows deliberate disobedience to the Pope.
Would you like to look at the next person on the list?
God Bless,
Scylla
Truth matters
But it’s pretty cruddy to do the whole ‘guilt by association’ piece.
‘Questioning’ is not the same as heresy.
She is not a heretic.
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Shoshana
Guest
I wish I could debate this fully without steering this whole thread off track…
But it’s pretty cruddy to do the whole ‘guilt by association’ piece.
‘Questioning’ is not the same as heresy.
She is not a heretic.
Code:
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frommi
Guest
Well then, a single priest who has a television show says so…it must be true…:bowdown:According to Fr John Corapi, it is. If a person needs to be told more than once and continues on his/her destructive, he is a heretic!
Heresy is the refutation of dogma…not the questioning of a practice.
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bones_IV
Guest
Frommi, why do you always have to insult everyone?Well then, a single priest who has a television show says so…it must be true…:bowdown:
Heresy is the refutation of dogma…not the questioning of a practice.
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frommi
Guest
I think you set the bar when you called me “not a Catholic”…and when the Cardinal-Archbishop of Los Angeles was compared to Hitler.Frommi, why do you always have to insult everyone?
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scylla
Guest
Questioning is not obedience and is directly contradicting Catholic practice by leading people into error by not submitting.
What was the sin of Satan? Disobedience.
Questioning out of lack of faith is exactly the sin of Zechariah which was also punished.
Questioning to seek truth is a virtue, which is what Mary did on the other hand, the questioning of Catholic belief and the nature of the incarnation of Christ is evil, as it is rejecting the truth of God for human preference.
This is why the promotion of women priests, supporting and questioning Catholic belief in this is so wrong as it questions the truth of God and is a manifestation of disobedience to God.
Guilt by association is perfectly valid. If I am an accessory to murder am I guilty of not speaking against it or trying to stop it? This is worse as instead of just killing someone, you kill people’s souls by leading them into error and if there is no repentance, into hell.
God Bless
Scylla
What was the sin of Satan? Disobedience.
Questioning out of lack of faith is exactly the sin of Zechariah which was also punished.
Questioning to seek truth is a virtue, which is what Mary did on the other hand, the questioning of Catholic belief and the nature of the incarnation of Christ is evil, as it is rejecting the truth of God for human preference.
This is why the promotion of women priests, supporting and questioning Catholic belief in this is so wrong as it questions the truth of God and is a manifestation of disobedience to God.
Guilt by association is perfectly valid. If I am an accessory to murder am I guilty of not speaking against it or trying to stop it? This is worse as instead of just killing someone, you kill people’s souls by leading them into error and if there is no repentance, into hell.
God Bless
Scylla
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