2010 Lay Orthodox Survey on Attitudes Toward Orthodox-Catholic Reunion

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“Sympathetic skepticism” and unwavering faithfulness to Orthodox Tradition
aptly describe the attitudes, some positive, some negative that the 2010
Orthodox Lay People Survey recorded from Orthodox respondents when faced
with the prospect of reunion between the Roman Catholic Church and the
Orthodox Churches. Although most respondents were remarkably open to
exploring reconciliation and even for receiving a Council’s decision
authorizing and enabling reunion, Orthodox respondents envisioned reunion
only along strictly Orthodox theological lines, leaving little room for
dogmatic diversity and with a significantly redefined notion of Roman Papal
Primacy if one is to be retained at all. Despite exhaustive mutual
consultation and general councils, reconciliation between the Orthodox and
Catholic Churches may not take place at the grassroots, where lay Orthodox
Christians reject membership within the reconciled Churches, making
reconciliation a mere canonical formality without practical consequences and
real liturgical communion between the Churches.

Read more:

vivificat1.blogspot.com/2010/10/sympathetic-skeptics-lay-orthodox.html
 
I don’t know why there is such animosity among Catholics and Orthodox. Don’t we have the same Father? Isn’t Jesus our Older Brother? We are brothers ( and sisters ) and yet it seems like there is more to this sibling rivalry than what shows. Is it jealousy ( on both sides )? I pray the Holy Spirit that He does something to heal this shameful split that exists between us.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Thank you both for your comments, but here in Ohio it seems to be animosity for I have actually been derided for being a Catholic by some Greek Orthodox, and some Orthodox by Catholics. Also what about the actual fisticuffs that have occured between the priests of both the Latin and Orthodox Churches over the matter of jurisdiction, etc., at the Holy sites in Jerusalem? It is truly scandalous and shameful.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
According to the website, only 105 people were questioned, 90% of whom live in North America. That’s just too small a number from too small a geographical area for the results to be considered accurate.

In my experience, which is confined primarily to my own parish and internet discussions, most Orthodox have a negative opinion of Catholicism, and would only consider reunion if Catholics abandoned all dogmas not shared by the Orthodox. Many people in my parish are converts from other Christian denominations and harbor a strong anti-Catholic bias that they retained from their previous faiths. While I was Lutheran I was taught that the Pope was the anti-Christ and most Catholics would not be saved due to their reliance on their own works for salvation. Most traditional piety, such as the sign of the cross, was viewed with suspicion if not outright rejected as being “too Catholic”. If other denominations have similar attitudes (and historically they do), then it’s likely that converts to Orthodoxy have continued to hold these biases. There have been a few cases already when my girlfriend, who is Catholic, attended liturgy with me, and afterward we overheard people criticizing Catholicism, which made her very uncomfortable. Once, before we had our own priest and were served by clergy who would visit to do liturgy for us, we had a Catholic visitor who was interested in exploring Orthodoxy. After liturgy the priest held a question and answer session, and the subject of Catholicism came up. He said that as a priest he insisted on appearing as Orthodox as possible (e.g. cassock, beard, etc.) so that he wasn’t mistaken for a Catholic priest, which he considered an insult. Needless to say, we never saw that visitor again. There appears to be little understanding of what Catholicism really is, and misconceptions are contrasted to Orthodoxy in a negative light. I think we have a long way to go to first correct these misconceptions before the majority of laity would even consider reunion. Again, this is just my experience, and I hope it’s not really as bad in other places as it is here.
 
🙂
According to the website, only 105 people were questioned, 90% of whom live in North America. That’s just too small a number from too small a geographical area for the results to be considered accurate.
I absolutely agree.
In my experience, which is confined primarily to my own parish and internet discussions, most Orthodox have a negative opinion of Catholicism, and would only consider reunion if Catholics abandoned all dogmas not shared by the Orthodox.
That sounds appropriate. A negative opinion of some aspects of Roman Catholicism, such as theological innovation for example, is not a negative opinion of Roman Catholics, or even Roman Catholicism in general, but it is enough to block intercommunion and is liable to be discussed.
Many people in my parish are converts from other Christian denominations and harbor a strong anti-Catholic bias that they retained from their previous faiths.
I am not sure if I understand you here.

Are you saying that the fact the Orthodox “would only consider reunion if Catholics abandoned all dogmas not shared by the Orthodox” is evidence of the strong anti-Catholic bias they would have brought with them from protestantism? Or are you stating this as a second observation, distinct and unrelated to the first?
While I was Lutheran I was taught that the Pope was the anti-Christ and most Catholics would not be saved due to their reliance on their own works for salvation. Most traditional piety, such as the sign of the cross, was viewed with suspicion if not outright rejected as being “too Catholic”. If other denominations have similar attitudes (and historically they do), then it’s likely that converts to Orthodoxy have continued to hold these biases.
It does not follow. Orthodoxy is “too Catholic”. It does all the same things the Roman Catholics do, three times over usually, unapologetically and often better that the Roman Catholic do. When I first visited an eastern parish and saw them making full prostrations, kissing icons and priests hands I was shocked and extremely uneasy. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

I had been a practicing Roman Catholic for fifty years. We never kissed statues and pictures on the walls and our priests hands, and we didn’t cross ourselves as often, we didn’t confess in the open in from of others … we didn’t put our noses and foreheads to the floor and leave our booty’s in the air for all the world to see 😃

Anyone who converts to Orthodoxy has to shed inhibitions and an aversion to making the sign of the cross and a ‘Faith and Works’ outlook toward salvation as well as church authority, because it is in your face big time.
There have been a few cases already when my girlfriend, who is Catholic, attended liturgy with me, and afterward we overheard people criticizing Catholicism, which made her very uncomfortable.
That is unfortunate and tactless. I think it is rude and counterproductive. However, I remember hearing that same kind of thing in conversation at the eastern Catholic parish I belonged to for a few years. Many of the biggest and most vocal critics were former Roman Catholics themselves, now eastern Catholics.
Once, before we had our own priest and were served by clergy who would visit to do liturgy for us, we had a Catholic visitor who was interested in exploring Orthodoxy. After liturgy the priest held a question and answer session, and the subject of Catholicism came up. He said that as a priest he insisted on appearing as Orthodox as possible (e.g. cassock, beard, etc.) so that he wasn’t mistaken for a Catholic priest, which he considered an insult.
I think that sometimes Catholic and Orthodox nuns in habit are mistaken for Muslim women from a distance. They must take great care to wear their crosses prominently. It would surely be a shame to dedicate ones life to be one of the few holy ones, set aside for God’s work, and often mistaken for a different sort of person altogether.
Needless to say, we never saw that visitor again.
I greeted in Catholic and Orthodox parishes for years and saw many visitors. Most for one reason or another choose not to come back. But I think we agree that it does not make sense to be boorishly insulting.
There appears to be little understanding of what Catholicism really is, and misconceptions are contrasted to Orthodoxy in a negative light. I think we have a long way to go to first correct these misconceptions before the majority of laity would even consider reunion. Again, this is just my experience, and I hope it’s not really as bad in other places as it is here.
I would also say that there are misconceptions in Roman Catholicism of what Orthodoxy really is.
 
Originaly posted by Hesychios
I would also say that there are misconceptions in Roman Catholicism of what Orthodoxy really is.

And I would say that there are many misconceptions in Orthodoxy and Protestantism, especially among ex “Catholics”, as to what Catholicism really is.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Bishop Sheen said it best:

“There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church. …As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do.”
 
According to the website, only 105 people were questioned, 90% of whom live in North America. That’s just too small a number from too small a geographical area for the results to be considered accurate…
That’s correct. I said so myself:
*This survey is not scientifically descriptive of the opinion of all Orthodox lay people worldwide. Limiting the information collection solely to a web-based document distorted the pool of potential respondents to middle-aged to mature males located in North America. Other factors, such as Internet access and conversant knowledge about Orthodox and Catholic issues may have reduced the potential pool of respondents even further. Accessibility due to the survey being in English may have been another major limiting factor in decreasing the number of potential respondents.

The margin of error of this survey is approximately ±10 percent, whether the survey is taken to represent opinions in North America – specifically within the United States – or the world, although the margin of error is more meaningful in the United States for a population of approximately 1.4 million Orthodox faithful than for 300 million Orthodox Christians worldwide. This is due to both the size of the sample, the geographical distribution of the respondents across the world, and lack of significant representations from Orthodox lay faithful located outside North America.*
But I also said the survey is valuable for the following reasons:

Nevertheless, the opinions of 105 educated Orthodox, North American respondents are very valuable, since these are representative of a portion of Orthodox believers in one of the most influential regions of the world for Orthodoxy. For it is here in North America where most inter-church interaction takes place and where the most practical aspects of reunion would become visible. Moreover, 105 educated Orthodox lay men and women, many of whom may be converts to Orthodoxy from the Catholic Church of from Protestantism, may exert considerable influence over other Orthodox Christians and may sway them in favor or against reunion with the Catholic Church.

Thank you for linking to it, and for discussing it on this board. If we talk about it, and perhaps change the overall discussion, I would have done my job.

Yours in Christ,
-Theo
 
Just from the dialogue betweenOrthodox and Catholics I see on this forum, I don’t see reuinion occurring for another 100 years at least.
 
If you went by CAF Catholics and Orthodox, there won’t be another reunion until the four horsemen come…! 😛

Let’s go Giants!!
Just from the dialogue betweenOrthodox and Catholics I see on this forum, I don’t see reuinion occurring for another 100 years at least.
 
Sympathetic skeptic… yes, that would be me.

I’m not sure how thinking that the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Churches teach mutually exclusive doctrines is “hating” the Catholic Church. I’ve found that some Catholics are quick to bring that up - if you disagree with Catholicism you must be anti-Catholic.

I’d love to see union between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, but there are many things which would need to be changed on the Catholic side. Whether the Catholics believe the Orthodox Churches need to change is, I suppose, something for them to bring forward, although I would think if they believed we had to change that they wouldn’t be saying we’re the same.
 
This type of sentiment is precisely why reunion probably will never happen. The East don’t think they need to change anything. All is perfect. It’s the West that needs to clean her room. :rolleyes:🤷
but there are many things which would need to be changed on the Catholic side. Whether the Catholics believe the Orthodox Churches need to change is, I suppose, something for them to bring forward, although I would think if they believed we had to change that they wouldn’t be saying we’re the same.
 
This type of sentiment is precisely why reunion probably will never happen. The East don’t think they need to change anything.
Isn’t that basically what the current Pope said when he was a Cardinal? Basically all the Catholic Church requires of the Orthodox is to commemorate the Pope and submit to his authority (if they can only figure out what that actually meant pre-schism), everything else is just dandy.
All is perfect. It’s the West that needs to clean her room. :rolleyes:🤷
There’s definitely something wrong when so little is required by the Catholic Church to resume communion.
 
Isn’t that basically what the current Pope said when he was a Cardinal? Basically all the Catholic Church requires of the Orthodox is to commemorate the Pope and submit to his authority (if they can only figure out what that actually meant pre-schism), everything else is just dandy.
It is worse than that.

An Orthodox Catholic Christian can become a Roman Catholic without instruction. There is no requirement for Chrismation, or even RCIA. All that is required of them is to submit to the Pope and go to confession and present themselves for communion and they are ascribed to the corresponding Eastern Catholic church automatically by the canons.

I have argued in the past that they should at the very least be given some instruction in the Latin dogmas so that they have some minimal idea of what they are consenting to, and what they will probably have to defend publicly when challenged, but most EC will have nothing to do with that … something about ‘Latinizations’, and so it goes.

It is like buying a car on the basis of a tire kick.
There’s definitely something wrong when so little is required by the Catholic Church to resume communion.
Indifferentism.

That is why I think it would be best if the Papacy resolved it’s differences with it’s Protestant children first. We can get a look at whatever compromises they will have agreed to before we consider admitting them to communion. There is no point in introducing intercommunion with a church we might have to cut off for heresy at a later date.
 
Isn’t that basically what the current Pope said when he was a Cardinal? Basically all the Catholic Church requires of the Orthodox is to commemorate the Pope and submit to his authority (if they can only figure out what that actually meant pre-schism), everything else is just dandy.

LOL, I believe I can walk down to the Catholic Church this morning interview 150 attending Mass today. And all would or “most” would have different views on the Catholic faith never mind Orthodox

There’s definitely something wrong when so little is required by the Catholic Church to resume communion.

That something wrong is evil my friend, its become an ever so present reality. I sympathize with the situation confronting everyone. In a perfect world we would all do just as we desired in our faith. I’m not so sure time is allowing us this opportunity. Sacrifice on the part of all for the better of mankind has to be the thinking. Hard choices for sure.

I believe we are near a point where theres no other rational choice, Unless the road taken is one that will ultimately lead to destruction of both churchs. United we stand and divided we fall is the truth we’ve come upon. The question is how long can we continue to be seperated? Another 5-10 years? Sure thats possible. But what about another 15-20 years? Doesn’t look as bright down the path a bit farther. Trying to organize in the middle of a battle is the worst case senerio without a doubt. At some point here we will have to think ahead.
 
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