25 unarmed Whites and only 14 unarmed Blacks were fatally shot by police in 2019. Do the data suggest that police deserve an apology from those who vi

[Hodos]

Whites outnumber Blacks by eight or ten to one.
For this item to prove anything, the number of dead Whites would have to be eight or ten times the number of dead Blacks, or at least in that ball park.

No, it wouldn’t. What you would need to do is look at the each case on its own merits and determine whether the police were justified in their use of force. And even in the vast majority of the cases involved, police force was justified. Then you would need to look at whether the officers involved, if the shooting was determined to be unjustified, underwent criminal prosecution for violation of the law. But I guess that would be too much work if all you are trying to do is advance a narrative.

 

[27lw]

Let’s also look at police officers killed. How many? Who killed them?

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/p...forcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

 

[Inquisitor85]

Believing their own propaganda? Seriously?

Yes. The way US police talk you’d think they were in the most dangerous job in America, they don’t even make the top ten. Source.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/12/27/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america-according-to-bls-data.html

Socioeconomic influences don’t make people violent, and they don’t make people criminals.

A lack of opportunity makes people desperate, poor education limits options. The US military understands this when they perform “foreign interventions” by building schools, health centers, and improving infrastructure. The US government conveniently forgets that this works when it comes to domestic policy because of reasons.

The problem isn’t money, the problem is a fundamental breakdown in the structure of their society due to a lack of fathers.

[Citation Needed]

When politicians ignore respectful protests like kneeling for anthem, and nothing changes people will turn to violence when they feel they have no other options to draw attention.

 

[27lw]

You know, how we don’t have schools in the USA…

 

[Zaccheus]

1ke:

No. It shows that while Blacks are 13% of the US population, they are 35% of the victims of police shootings of unarmed people. What it shows is that Blacks are disproportionately more likely to be victims.

Ok - now do the same statistical analysis for their percentage of the US population vs percentage of violent crimes committed.

Committed, or convicted of?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

…they don’t even make the top ten.

You do understand that just because it’s not the most dangerous job doesn’t mean it’s not a dangerous job… right? You also didn’t address any of the very, very real violence towards police we’ve been seeing, especially during these riots. Ignoring it doesn’t make it go away.

The US government conveniently forgets that this works when it comes to domestic policy because of reasons.

Our government has poured tons of money into the school system. It isn’t helping. My wife used to work in one of those areas. It doesn’t matter how much money the government gives a school, if the children are unwilling to learn then nothing is going to help them. Unfortunately, she found that a great many of the children at her school simply didn’t even try to learn. They came in, talked, slept, and did basically anything except engage with the lessons.

[Citation Needed]

The Effect of Father Absence and Father Alternatives on Female and Male Rates of Violence

Father-Absent Homes: Implications for Criminal Justice and Mental Health Professionals

The Real Root Causes of Violent Crime: The Breakdown of Marriage, Family, and Community

Fatherlessness, Poverty and Crime

Dan Quayle was Right (not an illustrative title, but the ultimate conclusion reached by the research is “The relationship is so strong that controlling for family configuration erases the relationship between race and crime and between low income and crime.”)

The Consequences of Fatherlessness

I could keep going, but I think this gets the point across. The correlation between fatherlessness and poverty and crime is so well documented that only a willful refusal to accept it could account for dismissal of the evidence.

and nothing changes

Change for change’s sake isn’t a good thing. While there are a small number of bad cops out there, the vast majority of them are upstanding citizens who protect people. These people are demanding change for something that isn’t a real issue comparatively speaking. As soon as they start calling for an end to fatherlessness, and end to black on black violence, and an end to violent attacks against the police, then I’ll start listening to what they have to say about how the cops handle criminals who are refusing to cooperate. Until then, it’s just a bunch of nonsense virtue signaling that bad actors are using as an excuse to burn, loot, and destroy.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

That is, right commentators such as Tucker Carlson, report only cases in which the police were justified in shooting and killing Blacks who violated the law, whereas liberal media, such as MSNBC, report only cases in which police officers were not justified in shooting and killing Black people.

Except for that Tucker listed all cases where force was used against an unarmed black individual, and included the two cases where the officer was found to be at fault and prosecuted.

On the other hand, you have CNN / MSNBC and their ilk actively advancing a false narrative in cases like Jacob Blake or Rayshard Brooks, trying to claim that they were just innocent victims who were killed, instead of the active aggressors the video and witness evidence clearly shows they were.

 

[Inquisitor85]

I understand that you do, but your funding methodology is primarily local. Therefore if an area is more affluent, local tax takes are higher, therefore better schools. In reverse, poorer area, lower tax take, weaker schools. If education was seen as important (this applies to the UK as well) it would be centralised.

 

[whatistrue]

This is a deceptive answer because black males in particular commit violent crimes at a far higher rate than other ethnic groups,

That is a deceptive post because “commit” is not the same as “arrested for and convicted of”. If police spend more time looking for black perpetrators they will find more black perpetrators.

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

It has never been only about deaths, but about other inequalities in arrests, charges and sentences. Deaths just happen to really mobilize people.

 

[Hodos]

That is a deceptive post because “commit” is not the same as “arrested for and convicted of”. If police spend more time looking for black perpetrators they will find more black perpetrators.

I would agree, except that police are generally responding to a call or have witnessed a crime. If you can demonstrate otherwise, please do so. But if you look at the recent cases in the national headlines, most of those were police responding either to calls or witnessing a crime. In the case of Michael Brown, the officer was responding to a call of a young black male who committed robbery, and in the course of questioning a suspect the officer was violently attacked. In the case of George Floyd, they were responding to a call that a black man had committed forgery. In the case of Breonna Taylor, they cops were serving a search warrant and were shot at. In the case of Deon Kay, the cops were responding to a call that a black youth was brandishing a gun at local residents and pointed his guy at a police officer. In the case of Jacob Blake the police were responding to a call for sexual assault and domestic violence. In the case of Dion Johnson, a cop found a man passed out in his vehicle smelling of alcohol on a major highway, and the man reached for the officer’s gun when he awoke. In the case of Rashard Brooks the police were responding to a call that someone was passed out in his vehicle, and upon attempting to detain him for DWI he assaulted two police officers and fired a taser at them multiple times. For the purposes of this post whether one is convicted of criminal conduct is irrelevant. The police are responding to resident reports of criminal activity allegedly perpetrated by a person matching the description provided to them. The police have the right to detain someone suspected of having committed a crime, and they have the authority to use force to protect themselves and the public from someone who is likely to commit grave harm to themselves or the public. There is no issue if the police are looking for more black perpetrators if there are in fact more reports of crime committed by black perpetrators. Multiple studies have found that this is the case.

 

[27lw]

I understand that you do, but your funding methodology is primarily local. Therefore if an area is more affluent, local tax takes are higher, therefore better schools. In reverse, poorer area, lower tax take, weaker schools. If education was seen as important (this applies to the UK as well) it would be centralised.

In my state it is now centralized, and the same amount is doled out per child statewide.

 

[Rockoh22]

I like the way Larry Elder breaks down racism.

 

[whatistrue]

if there are in fact more reports of crime committed by black perpetrators

There it is again. Reports. I am not trying to “prove” that every black male is a paragon of virtue, or even that the statistics are so much bunk. but I think it significant that pretty much any black male anywhere near my age in the US can describe multiple instances of being followed by store personnel, looked at intently or even followed and pulled over by police for no discernable reason, or see women with children cross the street hurriedly to avoid passing too close (among many other similar actions), but almost no white male of the same age can do the same.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

…see women with children cross the street hurriedly to avoid passing too close (among many other similar actions), but almost no white male of the same age can do the same.

Is this really any different from, say, a black man trying to avoid a group of redneck/neo-nazi looking white men in the South? I’m sure it doesn’t happen as often, since there are significantly fewer neo-nazis than black people, but it does happen.

These feelings exist for a reason, whether they’re justified or not, it’s not really the fault of the individual in most cases that they feel compelled to act in a certain way. Our media is saturated with stereotypes which attach behaviors to appearances (skin color, clothing, manner of speech, etc.). For my part, I will go out of my way to avoid a group of people who look like thugs, regardless of race. There is an implicit association between manner of dress and potential behaviors that has been reinforced by all kinds of media for decades. If I see someone with a hoodie pulled up over their head covering their face and their pants sagging down to their knees, I’m probably going to avoid that person. Similarly, if I see a dude with shaggy hair wearing a trench coat, there’s a good chance I’ll avoid them as well.

My wife had a handful of kids who dressed like thugs but were actually quite respectful, studious children, they just happened to like the style. However, she had far more whose behavior matched the stereotypes, which only serves to further reinforce those stereotypes and associated presumptions.

It’s not fair, and in most instances such behavior is probably misplaced, but it’s hard to call it irrational when personal experience and basically every form of media reinforces it, including what we see on the news.

 

[whatistrue]

Is this really any different from, say, a black man trying to avoid a group of redneck/neo-nazi looking white men in the South?

I would submit that it is very different, at least with respect to the neo-Nazi types (rednecks come in all types as far as prejudice). On the one hand you have a person going about his business whose only distinguishing feature is his skin color. Yet the woman in this scenario was so afraid on that basis as to risk crossing a street to stay farther away. On the other had you have the same man as above who sees people approaching sporting insignia or clothing tied to the advocacy of white supremacy. I think the black man spotting Nazis is more justified in feeling nervous that the woman seeing a black man.

 

[meltzerboy2]

I agree. The Black man would probably have to be well dressed for the woman not to be afraid. Yet if a similarly badly dressed White (or Asian) man were noticed by the woman, she might not be so afraid or perhaps not afraid at all. It’s that combination of dress and being Black that is the problem for some White people.

 

[neophyte]

“does the data suggest that police deserve an apology?”

No. It shows that while Blacks are 13% of the US population, they are 35% of the victims of police shootings of unarmed people. What it shows is that Blacks are disproportionately more likely to be victims.

The data you cited is vastly isufficient to support your conclusion.

 

[SuperLawyer]

Either one, in any event you’re going to find that the number is significantly higher than their pro rata share of the population.

 

[Hodos]

There it is again. Reports.

Well what are police supposed to operate from? They operate based on reports of criminal activity or based on activity they themselves have witnessed. If someone says, a young man came to my store and grabbed me and stole a box of cigars from me, as Michael Brown did, and describes the perpetrator as a young black male wearing (description of clothing inserted here), who is the police officer supposed to stop? An Asian guy? If it makes you feel any better, I (a white male) have been felony stopped by the police for a similar reason, a report of a young white male who had committed a strong armed robbery matching my physical description. The difference is I followed police commands, did not attempt to grab the police officers’ guns, and was compliant when I was placed in handcuffs for further investigation. I am alive today to tell the story because I did not offer a threat to the officers or the public in how I responded to the officers. Again, cops are operating based on the information they are given in criminal complaints and on the actions of the suspects they encounter in the vast majority of cases.