25 unarmed Whites and only 14 unarmed Blacks were fatally shot by police in 2019. Do the data suggest that police deserve an apology from those who vi

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Hodos said:
They operate based on reports of criminal activity or based on activity they themselves have witnessed
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And we come again to where if you watch one group more closely that another, you will see more such activity. And how many black males have had a person working in a store call the police on them for shoplifting when they simply picked up an item and turned around looking for a mirror to check it out in? Again, not saying that everyone is “out to get” anyone, just please be aware that there is a real and pervasive undercurrent of being treated differently experienced by blacks in this country. Try googling ‘“the talk” African Americans’ and see if that is something regularly experienced or discussed among white families. I know it was never discussed in mine, and I wasn’t really aware of it until some years after I went out and made my own way in the world.
 
whatistrue said:
And we come again to where if you watch one group more closely that another, you will see more such activity.
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People aren’t allocating police forces based on demographics (Black vs. White neighborhoods for example). The size of police forces are being allocated based on budget (tax revenue). The fact of the matter is that in the past black neighborhoods were way under-policed. The 1994 crime bill actually was initiated because black congressional leaders were saying that crime in black neighborhoods was out of control and they needed MORE not less policing. So federal dollars were allocated to help to provide additional resources to high crime, low tax revenue areas. But if you look at major metropolitan areas such as NYC where you have a wide diversity of demographics you find that police forces are allocated based on # of criminal complaints. You place more police resources in high crime areas in order to drive crime down. The broken window policing used in places such as NYC actually proved extremely successful at reducing crime in high crime neighborhoods where violent crime had spiked due to the crack epidemic of the late 80’s and 90’s.
whatistrue said:
Try googling ‘“the talk” African Americans’ and see if that is something regularly experienced or discussed among white families.
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This is stupid and proves nothing. I have had “the talk” with my kids. You keep using anecdotal platitudes to try to prove a point when aggregate statistics doesn’t support your argument.
 
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Hodos said:
People aren’t allocating police forces based on demographics
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It always just the police doing the watching.
Hodos said:
This is stupid and proves nothing.
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This is real and demonstrates a difference in life experience between black and white families on average. If you can’t or don’t see that, no need to reply since there is nothing more to say. I will be busy with my mother’s funeral through the weekend anyway, so no need to reply at all.
 
whatistrue said:
the fringe who talk about defunding or abolishing police departments are just that - the fringe.
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Black Lives Matter ADMITS on their own website that their goal is to defund the police.


At least 13 U.S. cities have cut funding from police department budgets or decreased officer numbers with several more in the process amid a national reckoning over “systemic racism and police brutality”, according to a Forbes tally.

This is why data and information is important before making self-destructive decisions.
 
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1ke said:
“does the data suggest that police deserve an apology?”

No. It shows that while Blacks are 13% of the US population, they are 35% of the victims of police shootings of unarmed people.
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Math is still a thing. In any case, there is no apology due for shooting anyone who is unarmed. Nor does this change the fact that police really do need our support.
 
pnewton said:
Math is still a thing.
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And when your talking about tens of people out of a population of several hundred million, it’s called marginal data - too small a sample to make statistically significant comparisons to the general population.
 
Inquisitor85 said:
Given that US police are currently trapped with a siege mentality, believing their own propaganda about how dangerous police work is I’m surprised it’s that low.
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My husband, just retired, gave 25 years of his life as a law enforcement officer, starting from the bottom and rising high in the ranks, commanding hundreds of officers. POLICE WORK IS DANGEROUS. It makes me beyond angry to hear anyone indicate otherwise.

A couple years ago there was a hit put out on all officers in the organisation AND their families (me, our kids). Why? Because they hate police. We were collectively terrified.

I have been to a dozen funerals, listened to the dispatch recording of the officer’s final call off duty, cried at the End of Watch, felt gut-punched at the bagpipes and taps, held my strong, brave husband as he shed tears because he lost one of his own, watched strong men and women weep, sat in the offices with officers trying to debrief and process if they could’ve done something different, hugged widows and their children knowing there will always be the demarcation of time Before and After… yes, anything can happen to anyone at any time–a plane could crash into my house and kill me in five minutes. But an officer puts on a uniform and badge that makes them a target for nefarious characters. People complain all the way to the top with lies and exaggerations because a cop enforced the law and gave them a ticket, only to eventually be shown video proof of the cop’s account.

There are bad officers and I think some jurisdictions and states have worse problems than others. But of the hundreds of officers I’ve know, nearly all of them chose the profession because they wanted to serve their communities. They wanted to help people. With recent vitriol towards police, there has been a mass exodus of good and honest officers, changing careers, early retirement, because of the hate–look at the news of a row of cops with people screaming and spitting an inch away. Take a 12hr shift of that every day.

Do you know that my husband and his officers have had many conversations over the years about it being better for them to DIE in the line of duty than to survive a gun fight? Because their death means their families would be taken care of. Their life means being put on leave, having others dissect actions for months that he had to process in microseconds, losing jobs, being hated and threatened…

Tell me again how it is just ‘propaganda’.
 
Amen! There’s a difference between jobs where accidents happen and jobs where violence can happen.
 
whatistrue said:
It always just the police doing the watching.
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No its not. Police oversight is civilian in nature. They are accountable to the mayor and city councils of the towns they serve. Sheriff’s departments are accountable to the county councils/commissions for the counties they serve. In addition, they are subject to oversight by the justice department and to the individual state attorney’s general. Do you even do civics?
whatistrue said:
This is real and demonstrates a difference in life experience between black and white families on average.
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No it doesn’t. I just demonstrated I did the same thing with my kids. Single points of anecdotal evidence don’t provide any information on statistical datapoints like “averages” or “medians.” You determine this through aggregate studies. This is why we look at multivariate studies that have demonstrated that police use of force is far more strongly correlated to suspect actions than to suspect race or ethnicity on average. If you are appealing to statistical terms such as averages, at least understand what that means from the standpoint of statistics.
 
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MikeInVA said:
it’s called marginal data - too small a sample to make statistically significant comparisons to the general population.
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No. It is still significant, as it is not data from a population of millions, but data from a population of dozens, that of people who are shot by police who were unarmed. What makes this significant, or not is whether the same percentages hold true in other samplings, from previous years, for all who were shot, which they do.

 
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I would recommend against resisting arrest. If you respect the police and do what you’re told, things will go smoothly if you are innocent. But, in too many of the recent cases, the suspects were violently resisting arrest.
 
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Inquisitor85 said:
The US military understands this when they perform “foreign interventions” by building schools, health centers, and improving infrastructure. The US government conveniently forgets that this works when it comes to domestic policy because of reasons.
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Education is mostly funded at the local and state level, with federal funding at about 4 to 14% (by state) as far as I can tell.

Baltimore City 6th-highest per pupil spending

Detroit per pupil spending also high: Detroit Public Schools Community District spends more per student than all but eight of the nation’s 100 largest school districts, or $14,259. MI state average was $10,209.
 
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pnewton said:
It is still significant, as it is not data from a population of millions, but data from a population of dozens, that of people who are shot by police who were unarmed.
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Dozens of incidents out of perhaps millions of police interactions every year. This is too small a dataset for comparison to the general population. You could say that the number of whites shot has decreased over the last three years while the number of blacks has remained unchanged, but you cannot make inference to the general population (the 13% issue).
 
whatistrue said:
On the other had you have the same man as above who sees people approaching sporting insignia or clothing tied to the advocacy of white supremacy.
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I made no mention of insignia, nor that they were even approaching. I only said that they look the type, much as a person may look the type of a thug.

So then, you agree that appearances may be a valid basis for making presumptions about the potential behavior or outlook of a person, and acting accordingly.
meltzerboy2 said:
It’s that combination of dress and being Black that is the problem for some White people.
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Fewer than you’d you think in my experience. Pretty much anyone I know who would admit to avoiding a black guy dressed as a thug is just as likely to avoid a white, Mexican, Asian, etc, person dressed as a thug.

I’m not saying that race doesn’t play a factor, or that there aren’t people like you describe, but in my experience the overall look has far more to do with avoidance than the race.
 
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@TheRightMelissa , an African American on twitter posted this:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I only think she errs a bit because this is not talking about police officers but is still illustrative.
 
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The prevalence of fatherless black families. Slavery didn’t cause this. In 1960, the out of wedlock rate for blacks was 22%. In recent decades, this percentage has been in the 70’s. What has been present in the black community since 1960 to eject black fathers from families and keep them out? Definitely not slavery.

I find it interesting that since links were provided as to the deleterious effects of fatherless families on their children, those links have not been addressed at all. Kind of avoiding the elephant in the room.

Black on black crime victims don’t matter to BLM; they don’t matter to the progressives; they don’t matter to the white liberals marching on behalf of BLM. Because then they would have to accept responsibility for their policies that drove black fathers out of the home. Nah, never happen.

More blacks than ever are wising up to what a bad bargain the Democrat Party has always been for them. But they had been stuck in the two party system that did not permit them to form their own party.
 
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Comparing non-police shootings with police shootings is just as irrelevant as comparing police shootings with cancer deaths. Cancer is not on the government payroll. Cancer does not have a charter that says it is supposed to protect us. But the police do.
 
You are really clutching at straws. As this thread indicates the BLM narrative is a big scam. Is this so hard to admit?
 
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