4-Year-Old Killed for Refusing to Call Mom's Lesbian Lover "Daddy"

[Libero]

fix:

I said we are all sinners and all need to repent and follow Christ.

If you think a tree is an orange should I be condescending to you and humor you and pretend a tree is an orange so you “feel” good about it? If you think a tree is an orange and you refuse to accept reality the problem is not with me explaining the truth the problem is you refuse to accept the truth.

Do you not think that you might be assuming alot about me now?

Comparing the topic of human sexual orientation and the matter of how our chuch should address the issue, to that of calling a tree an orange ignores the complexity of the situation. They are very different - trying to boil it down to something as simple as that is making a mockery of intelligence.

 

[fix]

Libero:

Do you not think that you might be assuming alot about me now?

I was writing rhetorically.

Comparing the topic of human sexual orientation and the matter of how our chuch should address the issue, to that of calling a tree an orange ignores the complexity of the situation. They are very different - trying to boil it down to something as simple as that is making a mockery of intelligence.

Let us be more accurate. We were writing of the “gay” lifestyle, not just one’s inclination. As for complexity, it seems the Church has expressed much information about the subject that is often mischaracterized and portrayed in simplistic ways to vilify Her.

The point is truth will only be accepted to the degree one is open to accepting it.

 

[Libero]

fix:

I was writing rhetorically.

Let us be more accurate. We were writing of the “gay” lifestyle, not just one’s inclination. As for complexity, it seems the Church has expressed much information about the subject that is often mischaracterized and portrayed in simplistic ways to vilify Her.

The point is truth will only be accepted to the degree one is open to accepting it.

Well, that is okay then

I do find it hard to talk properly about the “gay lifestyle” because it is not really defined - I feel that it may very well be dramatised to be honest…

I agree with your last statement - it works two ways though

 

[fix]

Libero:

I do find it hard to talk properly about the “gay lifestyle” because it is not really defined - I feel that it may very well be dramatised to be honest…

Let me help you understand. The “gay” culture that is spoken of means a culture that accepts homosexual acts as virtuous and sees the desire for the same sex as natural and good. It seeks cultural legitimization.

I agree with your last statement - it works two ways though

Truth I was speaking about is objective moral truth. That truth is a person and He speaks through the one Church He founded.

 

[wabrams]

I tell you what, it’s really sad when a 4 yr old is murdered, regardless of the reasons. Is this an example of the gay lifestyle, lashing out a child for refusing to call mom’s lover “Daddy?” No more than heterosexual parent’s killing a child for refusing to call his step-father “daddy;” which does happen, albeit very rarely.

This doesn’t mean we should accept the gay lifestyle or be sympathetic, I’m just saying we need to use solid examples of the consequences. As tragic as this is, I don’t think it’s a solid example.

 

[Libero]

fix:

Truth I was speaking about is objective moral truth. That truth is a person and He speaks through the one Church He founded.

Thanks for clarifying that… ever the thinker I still have problems though - like who is he speaking through? The popes have been inconsistent throughout the years, and as for the bishops, well they don’t appear to all be promoting the same message. The church is really hard to decipher…

 

[fix]

Libero:

Thanks for clarifying that… ever the thinker I still have problems though - like who is he speaking through? The popes have been inconsistent throughout the years, and as for the bishops, well they don’t appear to all be promoting the same message. The church is really hard to decipher…

You can pick up a copy of the CCC as a start and see why She teaches as She does and find no inconsistencies. Individual bishops may say things that are incorrect or seemingly incorrect, but individual bishops do not define the faith and if they say things that differ from the Pope it only means they are off track.

The authority of the Church is a great gift and is much more clear than the millions of varying* opinions* that we encounter. If there were no final authority we would be left to invent for ourselves what right and wrong are. That is not reasonable at all. We do not invent right and wrong. They exist and may be discovered by properly forming our consciences.

 

[Libero]

fix:

You can pick up a copy of the CCC as a start and see why She teaches as She does and find no inconsistencies. Individual bishops may say things that are incorrect or seemingly incorrect, but individual bishops do not define the faith and if they say things that differ from the Pope it only means they are off track.

The authority of the Church is a great gift and is much more clear than the millions of varying* opinions* that we encounter. If there were no final authority we would be left to invent for ourselves what right and wrong are. That is not reasonable at all. We do not invent right and wrong. They exist and may be discovered by properly forming our consciences.

But you see the whole concept of the pope being a “super human” who cannot be wrong troubles me. We know that popes have had differing opinions over the years, so how do we know that one is always right… and which one… oh what a pickle

 

[fix]

Libero:

But you see the whole concept of the pope being a “super human” who cannot be wrong troubles me. We know that popes have had differing opinions over the years, so how do we know that one is always right… and which one… oh what a pickle

The burden is on you to show where any Church teaching has been reversed. I have never found one case.

 

[bones_IV]

Libero:

But you see the whole concept of the pope being a “super human” who cannot be wrong troubles me. We know that popes have had differing opinions over the years, so how do we know that one is always right… and which one… oh what a pickle

Do you mean by calling the pope ‘superhuman’, you mean to say he’s impeccible? If that’s the case, then you would have a misconception about what the papacy is.

 

[Libero]

bones_IV:

Do you mean by calling the pope ‘superhuman’, you mean to say he’s impeccible?

I mean the fact that he is infallible, the idea that he can do no wrong in matters of church teaching, I feel that this (inadvertadly or not) puts him on a huge pedastool, as if he is more knowledgable than everyone else…

 

[bones_IV]

Libero:

I mean the fact that he is infallible, the idea that he can do no wrong in matters of church teaching, I feel that this (inadvertadly or not) puts him on a huge pedastool, as if he is more knowledgable than everyone else…

Are you saying this is a bad thing? Afterall someone has to be Christ’s spokesperson.

 

[fix]

Libero:

I mean the fact that he is infallible, the idea that he can do no wrong in matters of church teaching, I feel that this (inadvertadly or not) puts him on a huge pedastool, as if he is more knowledgable than everyone else…

It is not about being more knowledgable, it is that he is prevented from teaching error.

 

[Libero]

bones_IV:

Are you saying this is a bad thing? Afterall someone has to be Christ’s spokesperson.

I support that, I also realise that not having one figure head can have terrible reprocusions (like in the Anglican communion) problems just cannot be solved.

I just don’t really get how it is possible for him to suddenly become incapable of teaching incorrectly. It seems like such a strange concept.

 

[bones_IV]

Libero:

I support that, I also realise that not having one figure head can have terrible reprocusions (like in the Anglican communion) problems just cannot be solved.

I just don’t really get how it is possible for him to suddenly become incapable of teaching incorrectly. It seems like such a strange concept.

Infallibility is a charism and is a gift from God.

 

[CathChemNerd]

Libero:

I support that, I also realise that not having one figure head can have terrible reprocusions (like in the Anglican communion) problems just cannot be solved.

I just don’t really get how it is possible for him to suddenly become incapable of teaching incorrectly. It seems like such a strange concept.

Hi Libero;
Not to hijack the thread any more than it has been , but have you tried looking at it from the perspective of the original writers of Scripture? For example, Christians believe that St. John was infallible when he wrote his gospel, his letters and Revelation. St. Peter was infallible when he wrote 1 and 2 Peter. This wasn’t through any merit on their part (heck, consider how many times Peter stumbled) but through a gift of God (a charism, as others have mentioned). Is it then so hard to imagine that charism being granted to other men? A book that explains this really well (and humorously, I might add) is Pope Fiction, by Patrick Madrid. You’d enjoy it.

Peace of Christ,
CCN
ps Nice to meet you.

 

[urban-hermit]

Libero:

…Note: None of my message is an attack (if I have presumed too much anywhere - tell me - - nicely - - all that is said here is done so in a friendly manner)

Ahem…

Libero:

…To claim that somehow the orientation plays a big part in the child killing ways is - for lack of a better term - purely ignorant.

Claiming what somebody says is “purely ignorant” is not usually a springboard to intelligent discussion. I realize you posted this out of a strong belief that the practice of homosexuality had nothing nothing absolutely nothing to do with this killing. But I for one am not so sure about that. As somebody who has and does experience homosexual attractions, I believe strongly that the more one actually commits homosexual acts, and the deeper and more militantly one identifies as gay/lesbian, the more the rest of one’s moral life tends to fall apart.

Conversely, the more i consciously turn away from a tendency within myself that i know to be wrong, the more the rest of my moral life comes into balance. I see it essentially as a matter of Christian maturity and self-control.

Homosexuality is not normal. It is abnormal. Backwards in fact. The whole point of the word “gay” is to put a nice face on homosexuality and make it just another option for living. This is a lie, and when people fall into believing lies, and, worse, acting out those lies, such as homosexual sex acts, they get into trouble. Sometimes a lot more than they bargained for. This is why I believe, all things being equal, a militant gay/lesbian person is more likely than a heterosexual person to fall into other moral problems, such as, in this case, child abuse leading to a terrible outcome.

 

[urban-hermit]

BlindSheep:

I just wanted to say thank you for posting. Your testimony carries more weight than those of us, on both sides of the argument, who are talking about this issue from the outside looking in. I’ve been a pagan and lived a promiscous lifestyle, and when I hear people refer to such things as “freedom” it makes me want to laugh, and makes me sick. People who have lived in the darkness and come out of it see through the lies of those who promote it. God bless you and I hope you’ll post more often!

Thank you BlindSheep - God bless you too!

Repentant sinners of the world, unite!

 

[Libero]

urban-hermit:

Ahem…Claiming what somebody says is “purely ignorant” is not usually a springboard to intelligent discussion. I realize you posted this out of a strong belief that the practice of homosexuality had nothing nothing absolutely nothing to do with this killing. But I for one am not so sure about that. As somebody who has and does experience homosexual attractions, I believe strongly that the more one actually commits homosexual acts, and the deeper and more militantly one identifies as gay/lesbian, the more the rest of one’s moral life tends to fall apart.

Conversely, the more i consciously turn away from a tendency within myself that i know to be wrong, the more the rest of my moral life comes into balance. I see it essentially as a matter of Christian maturity and self-control.

Homosexuality is not normal. It is abnormal. Backwards in fact. The whole point of the word “gay” is to put a nice face on homosexuality and make it just another option for living. This is a lie, and when people fall into believing lies, and, worse, acting out those lies, such as homosexual sex acts, they get into trouble. Sometimes a lot more than they bargained for. This is why I believe, all things being equal, a militant gay/lesbian person is more likely than a heterosexual person to fall into other moral problems, such as, in this case, child abuse leading to a terrible outcome.

But we have no evidence to support your belief though - we also do not know if the parents led this “millitant” life you describe. In fact any evidence that seems to suggest that the homosexuality played a part in this tragedy seems to have been proven incorrect - lets call a spade a spade - this was a terrible case of child abuse, not a homosexual attack…

 

[Libero]

CathChemNerd:

Hi Libero;
Not to hijack the thread any more than it has been , but have you tried looking at it from the perspective of the original writers of Scripture? For example, Christians believe that St. John was infallible when he wrote his gospel, his letters and Revelation. St. Peter was infallible when he wrote 1 and 2 Peter. This wasn’t through any merit on their part (heck, consider how many times Peter stumbled) but through a gift of God (a charism, as others have mentioned). Is it then so hard to imagine that charism being granted to other men? A book that explains this really well (and humorously, I might add) is Pope Fiction, by Patrick Madrid. You’d enjoy it.

Peace of Christ,
CCN
ps Nice to meet you.

Thankyou for the adivce - I shall look into the book.

P.S. Nice to meet you too :tiphat: