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Mannyfit75
Guest
I corrected it double tap.You don’t mean John 6:66 do you, why that would be the mark of the beast.
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Nicene
Guest
Of course. The question is whose eternal life. The protestant perspective says it must be about me. The catholic perspective says it is Christ.
Whose eternal life is Jesus speaking of here (I asked Brian this question, maybe you’ll answer):
Jn 6:53: So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
54: he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Yours, or his?
Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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MrS
Guest
The Mass and the Eucharist was given to us at the Last Supper. It is the fulfillment of the old Jewish Passover…
At the Passover, as any Jew might confirm… you had to eat the Lamb. Attending the meal was not enough.
Did it guarantee that you would be forever freed from the slavery of the Egyptians, and would go direct to the promised land…No… you/they still made their own choices in life
But would the freedom and the promised land belong to those who refused to eat the lamb? no
You had to eat of the unblemished lamb, sacrificed for your freedom, just as the Lord, the unblemished Lamb of God sacrified Himself for you to BE ABLE TO be free from your sins,
apparently, believers, your eyes have not been opened yet… and your stubbornness makes you blind even if God wants to open them… your choice,
If the day comes when you want to partake of the fullfillment of the Passover… You must eat the Lamb.
.
At the Passover, as any Jew might confirm… you had to eat the Lamb. Attending the meal was not enough.
Did it guarantee that you would be forever freed from the slavery of the Egyptians, and would go direct to the promised land…No… you/they still made their own choices in life
But would the freedom and the promised land belong to those who refused to eat the lamb? no
You had to eat of the unblemished lamb, sacrificed for your freedom, just as the Lord, the unblemished Lamb of God sacrified Himself for you to BE ABLE TO be free from your sins,
apparently, believers, your eyes have not been opened yet… and your stubbornness makes you blind even if God wants to open them… your choice,
If the day comes when you want to partake of the fullfillment of the Passover… You must eat the Lamb.
.
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ncgolf
Guest
Let’s see if we demonstrate something … I am going to ask 2 questions. I would like you to answer and maybe a couple of Catholics will answer also. I want people with different beliefs to answer because I want to show the answers are not based on religion or faith but reason.
Just a simple letter as a response will do.
- If I libeled you or said false things about you what statements would carry the most weight as proving that I indeed made those statements. A. Statements that I said or wrote about you. B. What someone wrote describing what I said. C. Neither … you cannot tell what someone meant by their words.
- The number of statements made directly by Jesus in the Bible is relatively small given the size of the Bible. Given this how do you rate the importance of what Christ really said vs. what someone might say discussing Christ A. I consider Christ words more important. B. I consider Christ words less important. **C.**I consider both equally.
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
Yes,I hope this answers the questions you have.
- Everytime we receive (we do not take
) the Eucharist we become united with the Lord in Holy Communion and with one another.
- We we sin gravely, we destroy our relationship with God and turn from the Holy Spirit. The Spirit does not leave you, you leave Him.
- Repenting means conversion, or turning back to God. In the matter of grave sin Catholics believe that we not only sin against God, we also sin against one another. Sin has a ripple effect such that it not only damages our relationship with God but also with one another since through Christ we are united with one another. Our personal relationship with God in Christ is personal but not independent of our brothers and sisters. In order to receive the Lord in Holy Communion, we must not be conscious of grave sin against the Lord and our brothers and sisters. To receive Holy Communion in this state heaps sin on top of sin because it implies a unity of spirit that does not exist, i.e. it is a lie to say that we are at peace with the Lord and our brothers and sisters when we have sinned gravely against them and have not repented.
- See #1.
Brian
Thank you you made it more clear for me.
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ncgolf
Guest
Let’s look at some fascinating parallels:
Annunciation:
Luke 1:28 - “Hail favored one” (description)
Luke 1:29 - “She was greatly troubled” … at the sight of the angel.- (initial skepticism)
Luke 1:30-33 - The angel tells her she will conceive a son and describes what he will do and even his name. (describing what will happen)
Luke 1:34 - Mary says “How can this be since I have no relations with a man”. Rightly she wonders how one can get pregnant not using normal means. (questioning)
Luke 1:35-37 - She gets an explanation … ending with “nothing is impossible wth God.” (explanation)
Luke 1:38 - Mary believes and agrees but from what I know does not totally understand. She is very young, half scared from the sight of an angel …is told you will have a child but currently only engaged yet she believes. (trusting)
Bread of Life Discourse
John 6:27-40 - Jesus describes himself as the bread of life. (description)
John 6:41:43 - Murmering among the crowd (initial skepticism)
John 6:44-51 - Jesus explains again that he is the bread of life. (description)
John 6:52 - The Jews quarelled saying “How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat”. (questioning)
John 6:53-65 - (Further description)
Joh 6:66 - Many leave. (no trust)
I find it fascinating that the questioning segments almost use the same phrasing … "How can this … ". Both Mary and the crowd could not fathom what was being said to them.
The similarities being both are events beyond normal human comprehension. These things just do not happen ordinarily and both not being understood by the primary particpants … Mary at the Annunciation and the crowd at Capernum.
The endings are much different though. Mary says yes … the crowd says no. This is why Mary’s yes is so powerful … a simple yes to some very unbelievable statements and the crowd’s response of no equally powerful in its disbelief of the Teacher very difficult statements.
Annunciation:
Luke 1:28 - “Hail favored one” (description)
Luke 1:29 - “She was greatly troubled” … at the sight of the angel.- (initial skepticism)
Luke 1:30-33 - The angel tells her she will conceive a son and describes what he will do and even his name. (describing what will happen)
Luke 1:34 - Mary says “How can this be since I have no relations with a man”. Rightly she wonders how one can get pregnant not using normal means. (questioning)
Luke 1:35-37 - She gets an explanation … ending with “nothing is impossible wth God.” (explanation)
Luke 1:38 - Mary believes and agrees but from what I know does not totally understand. She is very young, half scared from the sight of an angel …is told you will have a child but currently only engaged yet she believes. (trusting)
Bread of Life Discourse
John 6:27-40 - Jesus describes himself as the bread of life. (description)
John 6:41:43 - Murmering among the crowd (initial skepticism)
John 6:44-51 - Jesus explains again that he is the bread of life. (description)
John 6:52 - The Jews quarelled saying “How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat”. (questioning)
John 6:53-65 - (Further description)
Joh 6:66 - Many leave. (no trust)
I find it fascinating that the questioning segments almost use the same phrasing … "How can this … ". Both Mary and the crowd could not fathom what was being said to them.
The similarities being both are events beyond normal human comprehension. These things just do not happen ordinarily and both not being understood by the primary particpants … Mary at the Annunciation and the crowd at Capernum.
The endings are much different though. Mary says yes … the crowd says no. This is why Mary’s yes is so powerful … a simple yes to some very unbelievable statements and the crowd’s response of no equally powerful in its disbelief of the Teacher very difficult statements.
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ncgolf
Guest
Sorry if I keep on this but stuff just pops in my head and I write them.
We are commanded to be dependant on the Father for everything … correct to be like a child in that regard.
What does this mean in the context of John 6. In what ways are chldren dependant. They need love and food, basic human needs so why cannot the Father fufill both of those. Jesus makes it clear througout the Gospels that we are indeed loved but what about food? He gives food for the body through nature but we are both body and soul so what about the soul? I think the Eucharist is that food that we should be dependant. He makes it tangible so we can both see and touch the real presence of Christ. It is even more important thanf food for the body as we know our earthly bodies will pass from this earth but our souls will not so why cannot we be nourished by not only the word of God but by the Word himself.
I almost wrote children are dependant on shelter but in reading the Gospel, Christ was born in a stable. He had very little in the way of shelter and it seems he may not of have much in the way of shelter in his early life given Joseph took them to Egypt shortly after his birth.
We are commanded to be dependant on the Father for everything … correct to be like a child in that regard.
What does this mean in the context of John 6. In what ways are chldren dependant. They need love and food, basic human needs so why cannot the Father fufill both of those. Jesus makes it clear througout the Gospels that we are indeed loved but what about food? He gives food for the body through nature but we are both body and soul so what about the soul? I think the Eucharist is that food that we should be dependant. He makes it tangible so we can both see and touch the real presence of Christ. It is even more important thanf food for the body as we know our earthly bodies will pass from this earth but our souls will not so why cannot we be nourished by not only the word of God but by the Word himself.
I almost wrote children are dependant on shelter but in reading the Gospel, Christ was born in a stable. He had very little in the way of shelter and it seems he may not of have much in the way of shelter in his early life given Joseph took them to Egypt shortly after his birth.
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Keikiolu
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NotWorthy
Guest
Amen!
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RNRobert
Guest
If John 6 was only a metaphor, and the Lord’s Supper is nothing more than crackers and grape juice, than how can those who eat the crackers and drink the grape juice unworthily be “guilty of the body and blood of the Lord” and cause those to become sick and die, as St Paul writes in 1 Cor 11:27-30?
Something else. a couple verses earlier (v. 26) “For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.” The Catholic Church proclaims His death every day (and twice- sometimes more- on Sunday). Yet most Protestant Churches (with the possible exception of the Anglican and Lutheran churches) do so infrequently, and some have dispensed with the Lord’s Supper altogther. I attended Methodist churches off and on as a kid, and I saw ONE communion service. I attended a Baptist church for a while that had a table up front with Jesus’ words “Do this in memory of me” engraved on it, yet in the six months I was there, we had the Lord’s Supper only once or twice. When the minister left to start his own church, I attended for a few months, and there was only one time we celebrated the Lord’s Supper.
Why are Protestants ashamed to “do this in memory” of Him who commanded it?
Something else. a couple verses earlier (v. 26) “For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.” The Catholic Church proclaims His death every day (and twice- sometimes more- on Sunday). Yet most Protestant Churches (with the possible exception of the Anglican and Lutheran churches) do so infrequently, and some have dispensed with the Lord’s Supper altogther. I attended Methodist churches off and on as a kid, and I saw ONE communion service. I attended a Baptist church for a while that had a table up front with Jesus’ words “Do this in memory of me” engraved on it, yet in the six months I was there, we had the Lord’s Supper only once or twice. When the minister left to start his own church, I attended for a few months, and there was only one time we celebrated the Lord’s Supper.
Why are Protestants ashamed to “do this in memory” of Him who commanded it?
J
Jennifer_J
Guest
But Jesus IS the Word of God made flesh! He is the Bread sent down from Heaven by God. But this verse is far removed from the Last Supper and the institution of the Eucharist.
Jennifer
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Did you know that your own church only requires you to partake of the Eucharist once a year.
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MrS
Guest
That is because the Catholic Church, possessing the Fullness of the Faith, wants each of us to make the decision to come to Jesus, under our own volition… not force us.
The yearly requirement is really meant more as a reminder, or an encouragement to partake at least once of the the wonderful gift that is available every day… over 300,000 times daily somewhere in the world.
like a father telling his child… look at all these presents for you… at least open one of them.
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NotWorthy
Guest
You’re misunderstanding the means of Grace that the Eucharist brings. It doesn’t save you just for one day. If you’re in a state of Grace, it simply instills more Grace in you. This Grace (whether it comes from the Eucharist or any other gift from God, Sacramental or not) it was prompts good Christians to perform good works for their neighbors.Hi,
I can live with that explanation. But would it then nullify someone’s statement here that said taking the Eucharist saves you. If you only take it once a year well then the other 364 days you are not savedWhat happens if you die within that year
If I go to Communion on Jan 1st in a sinless state, and remain sinless for the rest of the year, do good works for all my brethren, the Church teaches that should I die in December, I’d be heading toward the Pearly Gates, after a little stint in Purgatory.
But the think is, AFH, the Grace that I receive in Communion fuels the fire within me to go to Communion again and again and again. You don’t know the pains I go through each day trying to find a Mass in the diocese that fits my work schedule, simply because I can’t wait to go to Mass!
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MrS
Guest
Actually what Jesus said, “… unless you eat of the Flesh of the Son of Man, you have no life in you…” Jesus is the Way, Truth and Life.Hi,
I can live with that explanation. But would it then nullify someone’s statement here that said taking the Eucharist saves you. If you only take it once a year well then the other 364 days you are not saved
He did not say
“… unless you eat of the Flesh of the Son of Man, you have no Truth in you…”
or
“… unless you eat of the Flesh of the Son of Man, you have no way in you…”
So we should not assume that all non-Catholics who are prohibited from receiving the Lord will not attain heaven.
You have noticed that, among so many differences, the Catholics include these two:
both/and understanding of theology (not either or)
three witnesses, or three aspects of much of our understanding
Perhaps this verse in question falls under both. You can have Jesus’ Life in your life(spiritual body) AND you can receive Him actually into your physical body…
thus [1[following His Way… [2]accepting His Truth (Himself)… [3]consuming His Life.
just my thoughts… as I anticipate the Eucharist again
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MrS
Guest
little stint?? cool
fuels the fire…?? exactly. And the Church, again in Her wisdom, makes the annual “requirement” in the hopes of fueling the fire in all who sadly stay away.
.
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ALLFORHIM
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MrS
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