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Keikiolu
Guest
Ftang…!!!
Wow…! Why be “turned off” by anything BUT it being interpreted as cannibalism…!?
Why would they think it was cannibalism if it didn’t REALLY seem like cannibalism to them?
GOOD point…! Yoinks…
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Wow…! Why be “turned off” by anything BUT it being interpreted as cannibalism…!?
Why would they think it was cannibalism if it didn’t REALLY seem like cannibalism to them?
GOOD point…! Yoinks…
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RNRobert
Guest
And what has that got to do with this thread?
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MichaelTDoyle
Guest
This is only my interpretation, but I want to give some solace to the people working diligently to proclaim the Truth.
We know belief in the Eucharist is plain to read from scripture and Tradition and the ECF, but faith in the Eucharist is an amazing, amazing gift. I am awed and humbled that I was given this gift, because i am a an ordinary person with much weakness, but at Mass I believe and I think the Father calls us to the Son with this freely given gift of faith which we need only to assent. Don’t get discouraged when it seems people can’t see the obvious. Christ’s gift of Himself is almost as surprising as it is awe-some. In ultimately surprising humilty, Truth.
On the other hand, we are all in this together and we are supposed to help each other so keep trying! How wonderful to cooperate in God’s plan to call someone to recognize the gift of His Son to us materially, to help someone see Calvary re-presented. That would sure beat a thousand Oscar awards.
I geuss I’m saying don’t get discouraged and keep on keepin’ on
We know belief in the Eucharist is plain to read from scripture and Tradition and the ECF, but faith in the Eucharist is an amazing, amazing gift. I am awed and humbled that I was given this gift, because i am a an ordinary person with much weakness, but at Mass I believe and I think the Father calls us to the Son with this freely given gift of faith which we need only to assent. Don’t get discouraged when it seems people can’t see the obvious. Christ’s gift of Himself is almost as surprising as it is awe-some. In ultimately surprising humilty, Truth.
On the other hand, we are all in this together and we are supposed to help each other so keep trying! How wonderful to cooperate in God’s plan to call someone to recognize the gift of His Son to us materially, to help someone see Calvary re-presented. That would sure beat a thousand Oscar awards.
I geuss I’m saying don’t get discouraged and keep on keepin’ on
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Mannyfit75
Guest
For one, the Catholic Church acknowledges the Real Presence of Jesus Christ. Jesus clearly states in John 6:57-58.
“For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. 58 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.” This is no mere symbolism, and if it was, why did Paul said that some have received the flesh and blood of the Lord unworthily.
For every one taketh before his own supper to eat. And one indeed is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What, have you not houses to eat and to drink in? Or despise ye the church of God; and put them to shame that have not? What shall I say to you? Do I praise you? In this I praise you not. 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. 24 And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. 25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.
26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. 27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep.
The Eucharist my friend is not symbolic. It is Real Presence of Jesus Christ.
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RNRobert
Guest
**Nice **posts, Joey! You did a much better job of explaining things than I did! You da man!
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Steve Ray’s explain that in the 2nd Century, Christians were accused as cabals, and you wonder why.
Here are citations;
The Liturgy of the Church was kept secret in the early years. Pagans accused Christians of practicing incest and cannibalism because they “loved one another” and they “ate flesh and drank blood”.
In AD 155, Justin Martyr was the first to publicly explain the Mass in his First Apology written to Emperor Marcus Aurelius. He defended the faith and explained how all Christians worshiped throughout the world.
St. Justin Martyr explained the same liturgy as that which we still celebrate today in the Catholic Church. The Mass is divided into two parts:
Liturgy of the Word
St. Justin Martyr: “And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended . . .
Liturgy of the Eucharist
. . . bread and wine and water are brought, and the presider in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons” (Justin Martyr, First Apology 1, 67).
Of this Eucharist Justin wrote: “And this food is called among us Eucaristia [Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Savior, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh” (Justin Martyr, First Apology 1, 62).
continue…
Here are citations;
The Liturgy of the Church was kept secret in the early years. Pagans accused Christians of practicing incest and cannibalism because they “loved one another” and they “ate flesh and drank blood”.
In AD 155, Justin Martyr was the first to publicly explain the Mass in his First Apology written to Emperor Marcus Aurelius. He defended the faith and explained how all Christians worshiped throughout the world.
St. Justin Martyr explained the same liturgy as that which we still celebrate today in the Catholic Church. The Mass is divided into two parts:
Liturgy of the Word
St. Justin Martyr: “And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended . . .
Liturgy of the Eucharist
. . . bread and wine and water are brought, and the presider in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons” (Justin Martyr, First Apology 1, 67).
Of this Eucharist Justin wrote: “And this food is called among us Eucaristia [Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Savior, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh” (Justin Martyr, First Apology 1, 62).
continue…
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Mannyfit75
Guest
A martyr eaten by lions, St. Ignatius of Antioch (35-107), a disciple of Peter and John, wrote, “But look at the men who have those perverted notions about the grace of Jesus Christ which has come down to us, and see how contrary to the mind of God they are. . . . They even abstain from the Eucharist and from the public prayers, because they will not admit that the Eucharist is the self-same body of our Savior Jesus Christ which flesh suffered for our sins, and which the Father of His goodness raised up again” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6, 7).
St. Ignatius also wrote, “Obey your bishop and clergy with undivided minds. . . . Share in one common breaking of bread—the medicine of immortality, and the sovereign remedy by which we escape death and live in Jesus Christ for evermore” (Letter to the Ephesians, 20).
St. Ignatius also wrote, “Obey your bishop and clergy with undivided minds. . . . Share in one common breaking of bread—the medicine of immortality, and the sovereign remedy by which we escape death and live in Jesus Christ for evermore” (Letter to the Ephesians, 20).
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RNRobert
Guest
I was listening to Michael Voris program One True Faith, and he was telling how the story of Jesus and his disciples on the Emmaus Road corresponded to the Mass. First, he expounded the Scriptures and how they related to Him (Liturgy of the Word) and they saw Him revealed in the breaking of the bread (Liturgy of the Eucharist).
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Mannyfit75
Guest
If you read the Bible, it does contain within it the Divine Liturgy of the Eucharist, which is Jesus Christ himself.
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Keikiolu
Guest
I absolutely agree with you…!! On both counts…!!
To announce His plan is to take action to promote faith in myself and others by doing good things, not only by speaking about it.
And WHAT won’t matter in the end?
If to announce his plan doesn’t matter, then why do it?
If to choose to believe doesn’t matter, why believe?
If to choose not to believe doesn’t matter, why not believe?
What is it that doesnt’ matter, to you, in the end?
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NotWorthy
Guest
And of course in Acts, we see the first case of falling asleep during the Homily. In this case, it was much to the boy’s detriment as he fell and died. Good thing Paul was around.
But back to the point, I’ve tried to use this argument with my wife when she catches me falling asleep during the homily. “But Honey, it’s Biblical!!!” Sadly, it hasn’t worked, yet!
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NotWorthy
Guest
Back to being serious…
If you hear “Grace” whenever Jesus says “Eternal Life”, the Eucharist, as well as many other of Jesus’ teachings, will make sense.
Think about it. The “Eternal Life” that Jesus gives us is His Grace. When we receive His Grace, what do we receive? We receive the Holy Spirit into our soul (well, all right, the Holy Trinity actually). God is Life Eternal isn’t He?
Do we always have this “Eternal Life” or this Grace? No, we can choose to give it back to God everytime we turn back to worldly sins.
If you hear “Grace” whenever Jesus says “Eternal Life”, the Eucharist, as well as many other of Jesus’ teachings, will make sense.
Think about it. The “Eternal Life” that Jesus gives us is His Grace. When we receive His Grace, what do we receive? We receive the Holy Spirit into our soul (well, all right, the Holy Trinity actually). God is Life Eternal isn’t He?
Do we always have this “Eternal Life” or this Grace? No, we can choose to give it back to God everytime we turn back to worldly sins.
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RNRobert
Guest
Reminds me of something I once heard:
If all the people who slept in church were laid end to end, they’d be alot more comfortable.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Brian, you are so right! Peter sums it up when he says Jesus has the words of eternal life. And what are these words?
You must eat my flesh and drink my blood or you will have no life in you.
Why is this so difficult to accept?
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NotWorthy
Guest
Not with my wife’s elbow around.
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VociMike
Guest
Philthy pointed this out in another thread and it deserves to be emphasized here as well. How can symbolic-only believers possibly avoid the clear meaning of these words? Will they claim that “seeing” is only symbolic, while “belief” is real, in the very same phrase?
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MrS
Guest
RNR… we might want to add Michael Voris’ site to the list of good stuff… in less than one year he has an up-n-running tv studio and is producing weekly, direct and to the point presentations of Catholicism. He is about 30 minutes from me… but I have only been there once… however I definitely will return…
the site:
catholictelevision.org/
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runandsew
Guest
In John 6:55-56 Jesus says “For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him”
In John 6:3-4 we see the context in which he says that comment - “Jesus went up on the mountain, and there he sat down with his disciples. The Jewish feast of Passover was near.”
So everything that transpires in John 6 is within the context of the Passover. Jesus is talking to them after multiplying the loafs and ending up with the twelve baskets filled with the fragments from the five barley loaves, and he uses this as the starting point of the bread of life discourse.
He starts by talking about this bread, and then onto Moses still in context with this bread, saying that it wasn’t Moses that gave them the Manna, but God. Jesus goes onto tell them that he is the bread that came down from heaven.
We all have read the rest of the discourse, but to say that Jesus is talking symbolically here about just believing in him, or listening to his words and they are the bread is taking all of this out of its context.
He is talking about that the Eucharist will be the fulfillment of the passover. That is why the last supper is a passover meal.
If you keep the passover in mind, it will make better sense and keep your interpretation in line with the overall theme of John, and also the book of revelation, which John wrote.
Here is a Scott Hahn article, it is long, but he explains this very well.
Eucharist, Holy Meal
In John 6:3-4 we see the context in which he says that comment - “Jesus went up on the mountain, and there he sat down with his disciples. The Jewish feast of Passover was near.”
So everything that transpires in John 6 is within the context of the Passover. Jesus is talking to them after multiplying the loafs and ending up with the twelve baskets filled with the fragments from the five barley loaves, and he uses this as the starting point of the bread of life discourse.
He starts by talking about this bread, and then onto Moses still in context with this bread, saying that it wasn’t Moses that gave them the Manna, but God. Jesus goes onto tell them that he is the bread that came down from heaven.
We all have read the rest of the discourse, but to say that Jesus is talking symbolically here about just believing in him, or listening to his words and they are the bread is taking all of this out of its context.
He is talking about that the Eucharist will be the fulfillment of the passover. That is why the last supper is a passover meal.
If you keep the passover in mind, it will make better sense and keep your interpretation in line with the overall theme of John, and also the book of revelation, which John wrote.
Here is a Scott Hahn article, it is long, but he explains this very well.
Eucharist, Holy Meal
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BrianH
Guest
What do Catholics claim about this verse? Thanks
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BrianH
Guest
What does “no life in you” mean to you?
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