A Challenge to Our Intelligence.

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Continued:

**1 Tim 12
I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, that he has made me his servant and judged me faithful. I was once a blasphemer, a persecutor, a man filled with arrogance; but because I did not know what I was doing in my unbelief, I have been treated mercifully. **
 
As for Ben’s ultimate motives, I actually think that Ben himself, like countless others who behave similarly in these forums and elsewhere, is less than secure in what he believes in, perhaps subconsciously, so that he doesn’t realize it. All this talk that his own beliefs are absolutely proven beyond the shadow of a doubt (when, as I have argued and demonstrated, no one, including Atheists and even Agnostics, can hold their stance without having some degree of faith) suggests that he needs to believe this in order to have some sense of emotional or intellectual security. If he admits so much as the fact that Christianity is intellectually feasible (which no unbiased person would deny is at least conceivably true), it will be too big a blow to his own beliefs due to his insecurity; since Christianity contradicts his view of Judaism, and he seems deeply insecure, he therefore cannot accept it even as an intellectual possibility, nor can he simply buffer his own beliefs with faith in light of that possibility–as he has admitted he cannot–and so feels the need to endeavor on the hopeless quest of totally “disproving” Christianity, something in which no one can succeed but in which Ben, similarly to Atheists and Agnostics who also deny the place of faith much to their own peril, must falsely convince himself that he has already succeeded. He is fighting for his own mental certainty, for his very confidence in his beliefs, and so he will likely never yield to the fact that his “proofs” are really nothing more than (in his case highly subjective) evidences, if even that. This is what happens when anyone, religious or atheist/agnostic alike, forgets that having faith is not a weakness, but is rather a human necessity.
I must now apologize, in retrospect, for the above paragraph, for speculating about your psychological being in a public forum, Ben. I acted uncharitably in haste due to being angry at your ad hominem attacks against my intentions and against my intelligence in your previous responses to me. But even if you have attacked my intellectual character and integrity, an attack which I still do not excuse nor approve, two wrongs do not make a right, and so I apologize for doing something so inappropriate. That said, I really do suspect what I said in general applies to people who use the sort of arguments you use, whether consciously or subconsciously, so I wasn’t making it up or only sharing the theory out of spite. Sharing the theory as a general speculation isn’t what I did wrong, but I shouldn’t have singled you out by name in sharing this speculation, as it was just plain rude of me. Once more, I apologize, and if I could at least delete the specific references to you, I would do so out of respect for you and your personal space/dignity. May God Himself forgive me as well, as such behavior on my part does not represent Him well.

Blessings in Christ,
KindredSoul
 
OneTrueCathApos;5736276:
The Catholic NAB version of Saint Joseph’s Edition. That’s the version I use to give replies in this Forum. So, as a Catholic, you have no reason to say that I am using a spurious version of the Bible. And my Bible bring the imprimatum of the Pope.
Y., dear Y.! NOT KNOWING where you haven taken all your SPECULATIVE affirmations, and NOT KNOWING which N.T. version you were using, they were bound to wonder. Nevertheless, the conclusions you have taken just can’t come from a very careful reading of the New Testament. And so, maybe we don’t have any reason tosay your version of the NT is spurrious, but your conclusions smell prejudice from other sources. No question about it!
 
Or is it Bennonite? LOL
Either. But yes, he was one before I called him that. He is only famous for being a Benite, why do you think prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu goes by Bibi instead of Ben? He doesn’t want to be tarred with the same brush.
 
Newbie2;5737115 said:
Has anyone found it interesting why there are none of our Jewish brothers and sisters speaking up here supporting or defending Ben? As of this moment in time for the 279 posts by 31 different names, does anyone find it somewhat strange that there is no support by other Jews? Is it perhaps this is all his opinion? Is it perhaps he has been run off other religious debating boards? That seems to be his new found purpose in life.

Of course we don’t know, but then, I didn’t know this was a debating board, but rather one of eduacton.

My suspicion is that this is similar to Ben’s other posts, but I have not gone through the research. My conclusion is that Ben is an island unto himself based on these facts. But then Ben choses to ignore facts unless they might support his position.

Have I missed something?🙂
 
Dear Brothers in Christ of the true God,

I strongly suspect that Ben’s mission here is to cause strife among us.
And maybe stir antisemitism toward the Jews in general… Note that Valke2, a Jew, was quick to leave one of his earlier threads.
In stating what I had said about other Jews spreading the impression that Paul was the one who started the Church, not Jesus, I just shared what I actually read. I hate misrepresentations of what happened in the beginnings of our Church, but I don’t hate the Jews in general for this, not even those specific authors…
 
And maybe stir antisemitism toward the Jews in general… Note that Valke2, a Jew, was quick to leave one of his earlier threads.
In stating what I had said about other Jews spreading the impression that Paul was the one who started the Church, not Jesus, I just shared what I actually read. I hate misrepresentations of what happened in the beginnings of our Church, but I don’t hate the Jews in general for this, not even those specific authors…
Ben is here to serve Chaos. He has told us that he is only one that can correctly interpret scripture and that he is the final arbiter of truth. Therefore the only conclusion to be reached is that Ben thinks he is God. I have urged him before to get back on the meds. I pray he does.
 
Well, I think it is obvious that your interpretation is different than the original Scripture and that your views don’t necessarily represent [all forms of] Judaism. Moreover, In the same way that you state that one errs for being too literal in the Scriptures, I would argue that one [also] errs by inferring too much or drifting too far from the original content without sufficient grounds. And, in regards to interpreting Scripture, I think/believe that the notion of God desiring mercy rather than sacrifice is implied upon the act. That is a main concern I have for your your assertions: it as though you have made Abraham into a dreamer instead of a prophet; and God basically seems non-existent, or as not existing as an entity that can speak clearly to another. From experience I can tell you that modern revelation is performed like unto the explanation therefor of Moses. Yet, also sometimes I have found myself miming certain prophecies, and/or with my voice speaking/declaring the future/prophecy without any [initially discernible] introduction. But, both of these events occurred after the initial “formalities” [of my ordination]; and I may be a separate case as well (i.e. my experience may be different or unique).
He doesn’t go by Scripture alone despite his saying so, Angelo, I am sure of it. Reminiscences from things he read or was taught or was told from his youth on… and maybe some “informations” on internet, too!
 
Has anyone found it interesting why there are none of our Jewish brothers and sisters speaking up here supporting or defending Ben? As of this moment in time for the 279 posts by 31 different names, does anyone find it somewhat strange that there is no support by other Jews? Is it perhaps this is all his opinion? Is it perhaps he has been run off other religious debating boards? That seems to be his new found purpose in life.

Of course we don’t know, but then, I didn’t know this was a debating board, but rather one of eduacton.

My suspicion is that this is similar to Ben’s other posts, but I have not gone through the research. My conclusion is that Ben is an island unto himself based on these facts. But then Ben choses to ignore facts unless they might support his position.

Have I missed something?🙂
Maybe. “Non-Catholic Religions:] Comparing and contrasting beliefs.” (From the “FORUMS” page.)
 
He doesn’t go by Scripture alone despite his saying so, Angelo, I am sure of it. Reminiscences from things he read or was taught or was told from his youth on… and maybe some “informations” on internet, too!
“Sola Scriptura” is generally recognized as something undesirable by Catholics. Nevertheless, my main motive with the statement you quoted was not to personally attack, insult, or devalue Ben Masada or Judaism but to illustrate some of the guidelines I myself use when analysing Scripture; and also to note the differing quality and authority of Moses’ works and Paul’s, and to remind of the statement God made of Moses [in Numbers 12:7], i.e., that Moses is faithful.
 
Angelo, I can’t find any information from the link you provided, but more importantly, don’t want to derail the topic because this and all of his posts have been about Ben and his opinion.
Maybe. “Non-Catholic Religions:] Comparing and contrasting beliefs.” (From the “FORUMS” page.)
Again, note all the other Jewish people on board since Ben arrived!🙂
 
…] I didn’t know this was a debating board, but rather one of eduacton. …]

Have I missed something?🙂
My reply was mostly targeted at the above excerpt of your post. The point I am trying to make is that it seems that Ben is entitled to share his views devoid of harassment because this thread is in the “Non-Catholic Religions” forum and the explanation of the intention of that/this forum is apparently to allow for the comparing and contrasting of differing beliefs. I think this is a relevant issue because Ben is under some criticism for his remarks, and while disagreement may be warranted; criticism, slander, libel, or otherwise discouraging the expression or communication of his views may not be.
 
Ben Masada;5736309:
Y., dear Y.! NOT KNOWING where you haven taken all your SPECULATIVE affirmations, and NOT KNOWING which N.T. version you were using, they were bound to wonder. Nevertheless, the conclusions you have taken just can’t come from a very careful reading of the New Testament. And so, maybe we don’t have any reason tosay your version of the NT is spurrious, but your conclusions smell prejudice from other sources. No question about it!
Lapell, this is not my post.
 
The Scripture is as follows:

**Acts 26:9
“For my part, I once thought it my duty to oppose the name of Jesus the Nazorean in every way possible. that is just what I did in Jerusalem. With the authority I received from the chief Priests, I sent many of God’s Holy people to prison. when they were to be put to death I cast my vote against them. Many a time in Synagogue, I compelled them by force to blaspheme. Indeed, so wild was my fury against them that I pursued them even to foreign cities.”

Acts 26:12
"On one such occasion I was traveling toward Damascus armed with the authority and commission of the chief priests. On this journey, your Majesty (Paul is talking to King Agrippa), I saw a light more brilliant than the sun shining in the sky at midday. It surrounded me and all who were with me. All fell to the ground and I heard a voice saying to me in Hebrew “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goad” I said, Who are you sir? And the Lord answered “I am that Jesus, whom you are persecuting, get up. I have delivered you from this people and from the Nations.”

Acts 27:28
Reaction from King Agrippa:
“Do you believe the prophets King Agrippa? I am sure you do.” and the King replied “A little more Paul, and you will make me a Christian.”
Romans 4:24
"
For our faith will be credited to us also if we believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, the Jesus who was handed over to death for our sins and raised up for our justification."

Paul goes on to say how he preaches Christ crucified—a stumbling block to Jews.

But mostly, this says it all:
1 Cor 15:8
"But last of all, He was seen by me, one born out of normal course. I am the least of the Apostles; in fact because I persecuted the church of God, I do not deserve the name. But by God’s favor, I am what I am.**
Thank you very much. You have just confirmed my views that Paul used to persecute the Nazarenes. You know very well that what I asked you to quote was Paul persecuting Christians. You failed. There is nothing in this post of yours above that substatiate your claim that Paul ever persecuted a single Christian in the whole of his life. Then, it would not make any sense to found a religion to persecute the adepts. I wonder how you cannot
think about these so elementary things, which are so backed up by Logic.
 
Thank you very much. You have just confirmed my views that Paul used to persecute the Nazarenes. You know very well that what I asked you to quote was Paul persecuting Christians. You failed. There is nothing in this post of yours above that substatiate your claim that Paul ever persecuted a single Christian in the whole of his life. Then, it would not make any sense to found a religion to persecute the adepts. I wonder how you cannot
think about these so elementary things, which are so backed up by Logic.
Persecuting the Nazarenes, persecuting the Christians, persecuting the Church… to you who wrongly deny them being the same group, of course it’s logical… though false. The Nazarenes were the SAME who were called Christians in Antioch. They were also known as… the Church, or “ekklesia” or “Q-H-L”
 
Thank you very much. You have just confirmed my views that Paul used to persecute the Nazarenes. You know very well that what I asked you to quote was Paul persecuting Christians. You failed. There is nothing in this post of yours above that substatiate your claim that Paul ever persecuted a single Christian in the whole of his life. Then, it would not make any sense to found a religion to persecute the adepts. I wonder how you cannot
think about these so elementary things, which are so backed up by Logic.
As I wrote, a **stumbling block **for Jews…🤷
 
Thank you very much. You have just confirmed my views that Paul used to persecute the Nazarenes. You know very well that what I asked you to quote was Paul persecuting Christians. You failed. There is nothing in this post of yours above that substatiate your claim that Paul ever persecuted a single Christian in the whole of his life. Then, it would not make any sense to found a religion to persecute the adepts. I wonder how you cannot
think about these so elementary things, which are so backed up by Logic.
Of course, you could also have pointed out that it was not Paul who persecuted the Church… or the Nazarenes as you called them, but Saul did!!! 😃
Saul/Paul had to be a Nazarene, according to our friend Y. here, after his conversion and before the people of Antioch first call them Christians… since the Christians only started after they were first called so in Antioch!! 😉
 
Of course, you could also have pointed out that it was not Paul who persecuted the Church… or the Nazarenes as you called them, but Saul did!!! 😃
Saul/Paul had to be a Nazarene, according to our friend Y. here, after his conversion and before the people of Antioch first call them Christians… since the Christians only started after they were first called so in Antioch!! 😉
I use as much logic here as you have been doing, Y. … like it or not! :rolleyes:
 
As I wrote, a **stumbling block **for Jews…🤷
Jesus as much as the Church have maintained as a stumbling block for observant Jews… though this is not a good reason in itself to foster hatred against all Jews in general. We might not have accepted Jesus’ claims in the years of his ministry…
 
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