M
Montalban
Guest
You’re doing fine as it is.
How do you know nobody knows?
Again you’re certain everyone can’t be certain.
- Status
Again you’re certain everyone can’t be certain.
M
Montalban
Guest
Even if ‘gods’ exist, we know from their fables that they are born and die. Reborn pagan could be worshipping someone who’s been replaced by a son god, or grand-son god
C
Catholig
Guest
No, you have what some archeologists presume to be shrines to what may or may not be gods (it could be a dedication, or a shrine in honor of a dead family member could it not?). You don’t have druid beliefs, or rituals, you don’t even worship these “gods” in the same language. You don’t a druid priesthood. Your religion didn’t exist for centuries. I don’t find your beliefs any more credible.
Catholig
M
Montalban
Guest
Indeed. And what constitutes proof anyway? Are we going to have a science experiment for God?
M
Montalban
Guest
Not quite relevant, but he’s my favourite author. It touches (somewhat) upon our pagan friend’s cries of disbelief that we can be certain of our faith.
“It is not perhaps without good reason that we attribute to simple-mindedness a readiness to believe anything and to ignorance the readiness to be convinced, for I think I was once taught that a belief is like an impression stamped on our soul: the softer and less resisting the soul, the easier it is to print anything on it…On the other hand there is a silly arrogance in continuing to disdain something and to condemn it as false just because it seems unlikely to us. That is a common vice among those who think their capacities are above the ordinary”.
“That it is madness to judge the true and the false from our own capacities”, Michel de Montaigne (1993), “The Essays: A Selection”, Penguin Classics, p74.
“It is not perhaps without good reason that we attribute to simple-mindedness a readiness to believe anything and to ignorance the readiness to be convinced, for I think I was once taught that a belief is like an impression stamped on our soul: the softer and less resisting the soul, the easier it is to print anything on it…On the other hand there is a silly arrogance in continuing to disdain something and to condemn it as false just because it seems unlikely to us. That is a common vice among those who think their capacities are above the ordinary”.
“That it is madness to judge the true and the false from our own capacities”, Michel de Montaigne (1993), “The Essays: A Selection”, Penguin Classics, p74.
C
ChristIsTheWay
Guest
Good point, I didn’t think of it like that.
R
reborn_pagan
Guest
Okay, this is something I hate doing but I have no real choice…
I give, I dug myself into a hole and now I can’t get out. But c’mon I’m 16 years old and i’m a pagan who lives in a christian house. I can’t prove my gods are real, all I have to go off of is my faith.
I’m just sick and disgusted when people say “we are right because we say so” it sickens me to death. It’s good to be back but I think this time I bit off far more than what I can chew, so if you want go ahead and say what you want, I will still pray to my gods and you will to yours, but please don’t say that your better than me just because your book says so.
blessed be,
cody,reborn_pagan
I give, I dug myself into a hole and now I can’t get out. But c’mon I’m 16 years old and i’m a pagan who lives in a christian house. I can’t prove my gods are real, all I have to go off of is my faith.
I’m just sick and disgusted when people say “we are right because we say so” it sickens me to death. It’s good to be back but I think this time I bit off far more than what I can chew, so if you want go ahead and say what you want, I will still pray to my gods and you will to yours, but please don’t say that your better than me just because your book says so.
blessed be,
cody,reborn_pagan
C
ChristIsTheWay
Guest
R
reborn_pagan
Guest
how does that explain alot?
C
Catholig
Guest
I’m a 16 year old too the only difference is that I’m catholic
More seriously though simply the reason why I believe catholicism is because of tradition - paganism doesn’t have that tradition and is simply a New Age religion. It was created by people who used drugs, and lacks real connections to ancient paganism. I see very little facts.
Catholig
C
ChristIsTheWay
Guest
I can remember being 16 and I would often bite off more than I could chew as well! I also remember thinking not all that different from you. I wish you well, friend.
M
Montalban
Guest
Compare
(your version of a Christin): I have faith. My God makes exclusivist claims that He’s the only God
to
you: I have faith that no one can know for certain about anything, that of which I’m certain
Which one of these is of itself paradoxical?
If you’re going to have ‘faith’ at least have reasoned faith. It makes no sense to say you can be certain that no one can be certain.
M
Montalban
Guest
When I was 16 I’d give up the RC faith. It took me another 15 years to find my faith (Orthodox).
S
Spirithound
Guest
I don’t think i can prove Christianity without the Bible, but I can give an outline as to why the Bible should be believed.
Step 1. The Gospels of today contains the same words as the original copies.
Step 2. The original copies were accurate historically.
Step 3. Jesus claimed to be God. Therefore, he was either Lord, liar, or lunatic.
Step 4. He was not a lunatic or a liar, therefore he was Lord.
C
Catholig
Guest
The Jesus is either a lunatic, liar, or lord argument is… I believe a logical fallacy. I think it’s called a false dilema.
Catholig
S
Spirithound
Guest
I don’t think it is. Here’s the questions by which we have come up with the “trilemma” as it’s called.
Premise: Jesus claimed to be God.
Condition 1: Jesus either spoke the truth, or he didn’t. If he spoke the truth, he is God. If he didn’t, then go to Condition 2.
Condition 2: Jesus either knew he spoke untruth, or he didn’t know he spoke untruth. If he knew it, then he’s a liar. If he didn’t know he was speaking untruth, then he must be a lunatic.
Therefore, Lord, liar, or lunatic.
M
Montalban
Guest
We can look to how he acted and by what he taught. (This is one of the reasons I didn’t pursue Islam - because of the differences)
Tá Criosd ar éirigh!
Christ is risen!
V
Valke2
Guest
Paganism diefied nature, which is another way of saying that if it felt good, do it. Whatever happens naturally is great. In biblical times, it bascially centered around orgies and sexual taboos/promiscuity. If one feels the urge to do anything at all, it is ok as long as they are being true to themselves. In short, it was a lot of fun. Paganists a/k/a idolators believed that such behavior was a service to their gods. THe appeal and danger of such a philosophy is apparent to me.
I don’t know what paganists believe today but that is why I believe idolatry and paganism, as was known in biblical times is wrong and why the Bible spends so much time warning us about it.
K
KarenNC
Guest
Valke,
Could you give a bit of basis for the following statement? " In biblical times, it bascially centered around orgies and sexual taboos/promiscuity. If one feels the urge to do anything at all, it is ok as long as they are being true to themselves."
I will not dispute that there are those today who call themselves Pagans who do indeed follow a philosophy of “if it feels good, do it” (though a very great many do not). There were those in the ancient world who also advocated such, I am sure (there is nothing new under the sun, after all), but it was not the norm.
Precepts of Solon
home.pon.net/rhinoceroslodge/solonstenets.htm
Asoka’s Edicts
cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/ashoka.html
The Code of Hammurabi
wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM
The Delphic Maxims
paganwiki.org/index.php?title=Maxims_of_Delphi
The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius
classics.mit.edu/Antoninus/meditations.html
The philosophy of the Stoics
plato.stanford.edu/entries/stoicism/
etc
None of these says “if it feels good, do it.” In fact, quite the opposite.
Could you give a bit of basis for the following statement? " In biblical times, it bascially centered around orgies and sexual taboos/promiscuity. If one feels the urge to do anything at all, it is ok as long as they are being true to themselves."
I will not dispute that there are those today who call themselves Pagans who do indeed follow a philosophy of “if it feels good, do it” (though a very great many do not). There were those in the ancient world who also advocated such, I am sure (there is nothing new under the sun, after all), but it was not the norm.
Precepts of Solon
home.pon.net/rhinoceroslodge/solonstenets.htm
Asoka’s Edicts
cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/ashoka.html
The Code of Hammurabi
wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM
The Delphic Maxims
paganwiki.org/index.php?title=Maxims_of_Delphi
The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius
classics.mit.edu/Antoninus/meditations.html
The philosophy of the Stoics
plato.stanford.edu/entries/stoicism/
etc
None of these says “if it feels good, do it.” In fact, quite the opposite.
- Status