A decent talk

[Nicro]

Its getting crazy in here

 

[Steadfast]

Mirror?

I’m sorry, did you already say that?

 

[redmars3000]

redmars3000;3025297:

There is such a thing as Just War posited by St.Augustine. I do not support killing of people unless it is for Self-Defense, as outlined in the Just-war doctrine.

It is also incorrect to say that just because the majority disapprove of Bush, then they should rise up. He is unpopular because the Iraq war hasn’t been WON yet. It seems like a guagmire, that is why people are upset. If the war was over when bush said it was really over, you would see his approval rating in the majority, (at least that is my speculation.) Americans dont like losing.

On other issues, many people support him.
Abortion kills more people than Iraq does, Bush is very Pro-Life. You have your answer.

Ad hominem attacks do little to convice other people of your beliefs.

 

[ralphinal]

Its getting crazy in here

Amen. I would say that he is on your “side” but I don’t think he is that helpful.

Anyway, Nic, how did your family respond to your reversion to Islam?

 

[ralphinal]

No it doesn’t but there are sects and i don’t see 90% of Islam being extremists.
Middle east contacts.
Yeah,don’t need to be though.

So you’ll know, I do have a background in science, math, and construction. I;ve looked at the evidence myself and gone over it with experts in the field. Overall, it looks baseless. But we should not get onto this topic here. If you want to discuss it, start a new thread or we can in e-mail.

I agree with the 10% being radical. That is around 130 million!! And if this is true, why don;t the 900 million left stop them?

 

[Arbitro360]

if you are a serious inquirer you would take the trouble. I suspect you are not a serious inquirer.

No, he is most definitely NOT a serious inquirer. His only purpose here is to defend the indefensible moral disease called “islam” and to spread his islamic “dawa.” (Of which he has nothing original or insightful to say by the way.)

Also allow me to re-iterate, anyone who claims that any part of islam is “moderate” or “Tolerant” is either an uninformed dupe or a liar.

The goal of islam and of all mohammedans is world domination by islam. All of the major “schools” of islam agree with the interpretation that Jihad warfare against all “kuffar” is mandatory for all time. That Christians and Jews are to be despised, killed, enslaved or made second-class “Dhimmi’s” to be exploited.

This is a fact, and all of the baloney about islamic “fihq” and whether mohammed wiped with this hand or that hand is all unimportant, irrelevant and utter, complete nonsense.

If a muslim supports “Sharia” he supports Jihad. If a muslim supports the “ummah,” then he supports jihad.

Less than 3% of Germans in the 1930’s were Nazis. Did this get the Germans a pass? No, the Germans turned their entire society over to the support of the Nazi war machine.

Just because “only” 10% of muslims actually blow up Jews doesn’t absolve the 90% from supporting them.

Islam is about politics. Politics is about war, war is about deception. That’s what these muslims are doing here.

 

[Arbitro360]

Well, funny thing about the US government, we swap out leaders every few years. Another funny thing about it, our government is not tied directly to a religious legal code spelled out in the 10th century. I do not say, “Bush is not what true Catholicism is or Christianity is.” Muslims tell me that it is a religion of peace, then allow the governements to be violent as anything on earth. Perhaps I am missing something. Does Islam teach that you must never question your government?

Yes, actually it does teach that. The fundamental relationship of the muslim to “allah” is that of slave to master. This relationship is reflected in the relationship of the muslim to all “rightful” islamic leaders.

Muslims are barred from opening the faith to scholarly or ethical inquiry upon pain of apostasy (death). Muslims are taught that only islamic laws are legitimate, and that laws made by man are blasphemous.

Why don’t the muslims “rise up and take back the government” of islamic states? Unfortunately they are. the Taliban in Afghanistan, Hamas in Gaza, the “Union of Islamic Courts” in Somalia, the “Society for Preaching and Combat” in Algeria, the Jamaat in Pakistan, Hizbollah in Lebanon, muslims in the south of Thailand, Chechnya, etc, etc.

Unfortunately everywhere the muslims “rise up” we see horiffic “Talibanization” of society. More violence, more barbarity, more oppression. Not less.

Islam IS the problem. No “moderate” form of islam exists, and where “moderate” muslims try to pry themselves out of the dark ages it is IN SPITE of islam, and it is usually muslims who they have to fight.

 

[redmars3000]

So there we have it. 9/11 was an American plot. I suppose the Spanish and London attacks were plots too.

There goes any credibility you may have had.

Until the Islamic community can realize that it too can cause problems in the world, there will be no rational debate.

 

[Nicro]

Thanks raphinal you seem to be the only one keeping cool. But anyway they were fine with it. My families open minded and thought it was ok.

 

[exoflare]

Nicro,

The thread has already gotten very long and I haven’t come close to reading it all.

That said, I realize you may genuinely have the best of intentions but over time I’ve come to slowly realize that constructive dialog between Islam and Christianity is all but impossible. IMO the main problem is the lack of willingness of most Muslims to be objective when they discuss their religion… it seems MUCH more common for the anchor of their faith to be an “a priori” assumption that Islam must be correct, and then everything else they argue just flows from that basic assumption.

In other words, most people form a conclusion based on the evidence. Yet in the case of most Muslims I’ve come across they will try to “find” only the pieces of evidence they like, based on what they think supports the position they started with. This is what is so frustrating to everyone who is willing to assume that their point of view may or may not be correct (depending on the evidence), even if only for the sake of discussion.

 

[Reuben_J]

Yes, actually it does teach that. The fundamental relationship of the muslim to “allah” is that of slave to master. This relationship is reflected in the relationship of the muslim to all “rightful” islamic leaders.

Muslims are barred from opening the faith to scholarly or ethical inquiry upon pain of apostasy (death). Muslims are taught that only islamic laws are legitimate, and that laws made by man are blasphemous.

Why don’t the muslims “rise up and take back the government” of islamic states? Unfortunately they are. the Taliban in Afghanistan, Hamas in Gaza, the “Union of Islamic Courts” in Somalia, the “Society for Preaching and Combat” in Algeria, the Jamaat in Pakistan, Hizbollah in Lebanon, muslims in the south of Thailand, Chechnya, etc, etc.

**Unfortunately everywhere the muslims “rise up” we see horiffic “Talibanization” of society. More violence, more barbarity, more oppression. Not less.

Islam IS the problem. No “moderate” form of islam exists, and where “moderate” muslims try to pry themselves out of the dark ages it is IN SPITE of islam, and it is usually muslims who they have to fight**.

We may have decent talk in here but unfortunately this observation is true. There must be courage to confront this reality about Islam.

 

[widower4604]

Skipping straight to the judicial system merely upsets them and runs them off. Yes, it looks bad but, you still can’t prove anything.

May be they truly feel the judicial system is against their beliefs…justice gets perverted. All judicial systems are as good as the people and western nations are mostly Christian. If there judicial system is relevant so is yours. We are talking about red and green apples not apples and oranges.

Can’t prove anything? Give me a break!!!
It proves how totally screwed up Islam is. It’s not because their “wahabbist” or any rubbish like that.

Look the problem with Islam is really simple-the KORAN and the “prophet” Mohammed. Wherever Islam or muslims rule you find all sorts of abusive situations like this. The answer

1. Don’t allow proselytizing by Muslims
2. deport them-sure there are decent muslims. The problem is they are mixed in with the ones who practice this demented
   creed and how do we protect ourselves from them carrying out what “Allah” decrees?
3. Stop allowing automatic U.S. citizenship for those born here of foreign non U.S. citizen parents.
4. refuse to allow immigrants from Muslim countries to come here
   unless they are Christians or from other religions. .
5. Drill for oil in ANWR (Alaska) and in the Gulf of mexico & off Florida’s coast; build oil refineries; build/expand nuclear power plants-all this will help the muslim oil nations to go broke
6. Airdrop billions of leaflets over muslim countries to get them to convert to Christianity.

 

[lhagan]

Can’t prove anything? Give me a break!!!
It proves how totally screwed up Islam is. It’s not because their “wahabbist” or any rubbish like that.

Look the problem with Islam is really simple-the KORAN and the “prophet” Mohammed. Wherever Islam or muslims rule you find all sorts of abusive situations like this. The answer

1. Don’t allow proselytizing by Muslims
2. deport them-sure there are decent muslims. The problem is they are mixed in with the ones who practice this demented
   creed and how do we protect ourselves from them carrying out what “Allah” decrees?
3. Stop allowing automatic U.S. citizenship for those born here of foreign non U.S. citizen parents.
4. refuse to allow immigrants from Muslim countries to come here
   unless they are Christians or from other religions. .
5. Drill for oil in ANWR (Alaska) and in the Gulf of mexico & off Florida’s coast; build oil refineries; build/expand nuclear power plants-all this will help the muslim oil nations to go broke
6. Airdrop billions of leaflets over muslim countries to get them to convert to Christianity.

Vote Extreme Right much? …not a question.

 

[lhagan]

It is really sad how a decent discussion can turn into ignorant,extreme right wing,hatred.

 

[Nicro]

Can’t prove anything? Give me a break!!!
It proves how totally screwed up Islam is. It’s not because their “wahabbist” or any rubbish like that.

Look the problem with Islam is really simple-the KORAN and the “prophet” Mohammed. Wherever Islam or muslims rule you find all sorts of abusive situations like this. The answer

1. Don’t allow proselytizing by Muslims
2. deport them-sure there are decent muslims. The problem is they are mixed in with the ones who practice this demented
   creed and how do we protect ourselves from them carrying out what “Allah” decrees?
3. Stop allowing automatic U.S. citizenship for those born here of foreign non U.S. citizen parents.
4. refuse to allow immigrants from Muslim countries to come here
   unless they are Christians or from other religions. .
5. Drill for oil in ANWR (Alaska) and in the Gulf of mexico & off Florida’s coast; build oil refineries; build/expand nuclear power plants-all this will help the muslim oil nations to go broke
6. Airdrop billions of leaflets over muslim countries to get them to convert to Christianity.

That sounds horrible. Its better to deport everyone who isnt native considering they either came here to kill natives and take over the land, or were brought here against there will.

 

[lhagan]

Nicro

Hatred does not know any rational or logic.

 

[pismopal]

Nicro

Hatred does not know any rational or logic.

I have not read one post expressing PERSONAL hatred for anyone. But if you expect softball posts from me or my soul siblings over the issue of Islam you are simply being unrealistic and foolish. Don’t be coy about what is being done in the name of Islam worldwide. It is there for the whole world to see and it is ugly beyond description or belief. The beef is not Christian, Budhhist, Hindu intolerance…it is Islamic intolerance of others as directed by your Koran and the violence against others by jihadis. Can a Jew sit and have small talk with a member of the SS? Maybe the Jew and the SS man both enjoy their hobby of stamp collecting and love a pint of Bitburger in the evening. How long can the talk remain “decent” when the Jew knows that the SS man hates him and would kill him and his family as soon as he is able. Further, if some here think that it’s only “right wing extremist republican islamophobes” who are down with this struggle, you would be sadly off the mark…way off.

 

[paarsurrey]

Airdrop billions of leaflets over muslim countries to get them to convert to Christianity.

Hi

I am an Ahmadi a peaceful Muslim. I don’t mind if you drop leaflets but then you should be prepared for peaceful dialogue with Muslims.

We prove from Quran and Bible etc that Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross but he later died a natural and respectful death. I think it would be difficult for you to respond to it. With this divinely revealed means on the PromisedMessiah1835-1908 may be you have to change your thoughts. At least get prepared for that.

Muslims don’t need violence, I am with you in this thing.

I respect your religion.

Thanks

 

[lhagan]

I have not read one post expressing PERSONAL hatred for anyone. But if you expect softball posts from me or my soul siblings (all humans are soul siblings) over the issue of Islam you are simply being unrealistic and foolish. (<–Ad hominem statement.) Don’t be coy about what is being done in the name of Islam worldwide.(<–Ad hominem and unfounded, just because somebody kills somebody and says it is in the name of their religion doesn’t make the religion a religion of hatred, Catholics claim the old church and centuries ago Christians used death for conversion. And, I don’t consider those true Christians. Therefore, I don’t consider political killings by Muslims in the name of religion true Muslims. It is not founded that they represent Islam.) It is there for the whole world to see and it is ugly beyond description or belief.(There are evil people in the world, yes.( The beef is not Christian, Budhhist, Hindu intolerance(Christians bring these two up ALL the time…that is religion hatred 101(religion equivalent racist or sexist ).) …it is Islamic intolerance of others as directed by your Koran and the violence against others by jihadis. (I’m not a Muslim but, this statement is also Ad hominem and religion hatred.) [Can a Jew sit and have small talk with a member of the SS? Maybe the Jew and the SS man both enjoy their hobby of stamp collecting and love a pint of Bitburger in the evening. How long can the talk remain “decent” when the Jew knows that the SS man hates him and would kill him and his family as soon as he is able.]–> all of this is unfounded or hearsay if you aren’t a Jew) Further, if some here think that it’s only “right wing extremist republican islamophobes” who are down with this struggle, you would be sadly off the mark…way off. (Yes, I know and it is sad because this is caused by reverse psychology and propaganda in the news and being too lazy to research it. If you still have this opinion after then you are a “right wing extremist republican islamophobes”

Originally Posted by widower4604 View Post
Can’t prove anything? Give me a break!!!
It proves how totally screwed up Islam is. It’s not because their “wahabbist” or any rubbish like that.(Ad hominem)

Look the problem with Islam is really simple-the KORAN and the “prophet” Mohammed. (Unfounded and Ad hominem)Wherever Islam or muslims rule you find all sorts of abusive situations like this. (Some not all.)The answer

1. Don’t allow proselytizing by Muslims

This is religion hatred,if they can’t have conversion talks than neither can you.

1. deport them-sure there are decent muslims. The problem is they are mixed in with the ones who practice this demented
   creed and how do we protect ourselves from them carrying out what “Allah” decrees?

Personal hatred. We don’t know any persons true intentions. Nobody of any race or any religion. Sometimes not even our family. Read a General Psychology text.

1. Stop allowing automatic U.S. citizenship for those born here of foreign non U.S. citizen parents. Agreed but, for all races, all nationalities, all religions
2. refuse to allow immigrants from Muslim countries to come here
   unless they are Christians or from other religions. .

Religion and personal hatred. America is a immigrant country only true natives are Native American Indians.

1. Drill for oil in ANWR (Alaska) and in the Gulf of mexico & off Florida’s coast; build oil refineries; build/expand nuclear power plants-all this will help the muslim oil nations to go broke

Wishing somebody misfortune is personal hatred in the most basic form. Plus it isn’t a Christian characteristic.

1. Airdrop billions of leaflets over muslim countries to get them to convert to Christianity. This is a nice way of saying “convert or else”. I thought Catholics got rid of that centuries ago.

Hatred

among the works of the flesh (Gal. 5:20). Altogether different is the meaning of the word in Deut. 21:15; Matt. 6:24; Luke 14:26; Rom. 9:13, where it denotes only a less degree of love.
dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hatred&x=0&y=0

A true Christian would be above this kind of behavior I have outlined.
God and Jesus or Muhammad or God the Trinity wants you to feel and show love for ALL, no matter what. (Even actions (physical or forum) in self-defense are suppose to be human. Human means to show love,respect,and regret.)

 

[pismopal]

Hatred

among the works of the flesh (Gal. 5:20). Altogether different is the meaning of the word in Deut. 21:15; Matt. 6:24; Luke 14:26; Rom. 9:13, where it denotes only a less degree of love.
dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hatred&x=0&y=0

A true Christian would be above this kind of behavior I have outlined.
God and Jesus or Muhammad or God the Trinity wants you to feel and show love for ALL, no matter what. (Even actions (physical or forum) in self-defense are suppose to be human. Human means to show love,respect,and regret.)

Your post failed to document a single statement by me or anyone else that amounts to hatred. All you did was play attorney at law in your own defense and look silly (another hate crime by pismopal). I can’t waste anymore time with you…if you want to play silly games I can get out of your way. I have accused Islam of some serious matters but you can’t defend Islam…all you can do is attack me and you aren’t doing a convincing job of that either. It is your book and your religion that is involved in violence against infidels (that includes me,happily) but you have not seen fit to refute that. Work on it and get back to us.
PS Hate is not disagreeing with someone or remonstrating…hate is attacking others physically…teaching ones children to view non believers as inferior and worthy of attack and believing it yourself.