A Historical Dare to Protestants

  • Thread starter Thread starter nsper7
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
CHESTERTONRULES said:
With Questions;4676518:
Probably I have not. Have you?

QUOTE]

My guess is that I have seen more evidence in support of the Catholic Church than you have.

I doubt that you can teach me much about the Charismatic or Methodist understanding that I don’t already know.
Click to expand...
With Questions read the works of John Wesely and see where he departed from Catholic teaching.
Click to expand...
 
Hisalone said:
You dont even have to go there.
The Roman Church taught a false gospel prior to the counter reformation. Examine what they taugt compare it to scripture and ask yourself Is thsi the true Church of God?
Click to expand...
LOL!!!.. yes this has been a very successful technique over the past 500 years… how about instead you let him/her study the history, and what the early Christians taught about Jesus and Scripture, and compare that to the modern CC, and then let him/her ask that question.

You want to teach us Chrsitian history, but you need to let Christian history teach you… let With Questions study the history for his/herself… You already know you hate the CC, and study it only accepting the things that you think prove it wrong… That’s not the way to form an honest decision.

SD
 
SD_Catholic said:
Jesus either is or isn’t the fullness of truth… If Jesus makes a Church his body which is the fullness of truth, than no other fragment of that truth becomes a “logical possibility” to still being the fullness of truth if it no longer holds all the truths of the one body.

Canonizing the books of the Bible is not an all the time in real life issue… it’s canonizing of the Bible for crying out loud… Totally irrelevant to your beliefs??? How could what they believed, which decided which writings went into the book that you wish to base your life on be irrelevant:eek: … We ARE talking about the issues of what the Bible says, and how they interpreted those words that were in the writings that were included in the canon… I’m not talking about whether they went to the market on Thursdays or Fridays… I’m talking about how they interpreted the words of Sacred Scripture.

SD
Click to expand...
Jesus is the fullness of truth. Evidence shows that corruptable men deviated from this truth. Evidnce that reform was need in the Catholic Church at the time of the reformation is that of the counter reformation. If no reform was needed ten the counter reformation was not needed also.

The Holy Spirit insired the writting and the preservation of scripture. Catholics can take no credit for it.
 
Tomster said:
Is this what you are referring to?

Ecclesia: assembly, meeting, convocation. The kingdom of God on earth governed by apostolic authority.

Institution. Jesus Christ, as is strikingly evident on every page of the Gospel, represented Himself to the world as the founder of “the kingdom of God,” which in its earthly phase is ordained to gather together all men (cf. the parables of the kingdom): the people.

As rulers of his kingdom He appointed the Apostles (cf. Luke 6:13; Matthew 18:15-18; John 20:21; Matthew 28:18-19, etc.): the clergy in the people.

As head of the Apostles He constituted St. Peter (cf. Matthew 16:18-19; John 21:17): the primacy in the clergy.

With these elements our Lord instituted a real society, hierarchically constituted (with subjects and superiors), visible to the eyes of all, but with a nonpolitical and religious end 9cf. Matthew 4:3-10; 5:3-12; 6:33; 16:26, 27, etc.), assigning it the function of applying, through the centuries, the fruits of the Redemption.

Essence. From this we clearly understand that the Church is the continuation and the prolongation of the Incarnate Word, His Mystical Body (Romans 12:4-6; 1 Corinthians 12:12-27; Ephesians 4:4), which actualizes in each individual as in all humanity the work of the Redemption, through the offering of the sacrifice of the Mass and the triple ecclesiastical power of teaching, ministry and jurisdiction.

As its Founder is a Person subsisting both in the human and in the divine nature, so the Church is at the same time a human and divine society; the human element, visible, perceptible to the senses, consists of the multitude of men socially organized; the spiritual, invisible, divine element is furnished by the supernatural gifts which put the human aggregate under the influence of Christ and of the Holy Spirit, Soul and unitive Principle of the whole organism (theandric constitution of the Church). The Church is, therefore, the union of man with Christ in a social form, “the social synthesis of the human and the divine.”

Properties. If the Church is the union of humanity with Christ in a social, hierarchically organized form, it has to be necessarily one, since Christ is one and the human race is one; it has to be holy, because contact with Christ is sanctifying; it must be catholic, ie. universal, since the union of humanity in Christ embraces (in tendency) all the individuals of the human species; it must be apostolic, because, since it is a union in hierarchical form, it is necessarily based on Peter and the Apostles and their successors, who constitute the hierarchy.

One, holy, catholic, apostolic: These are the four properties of the Spouse of Christ: its individual characteristics which become also marks of identification; when considered in historical reality they appear to the eyes of all as distinctive signs of the true institution of Jesus Christ.

Power and operations. Being human-divine, visible-invisible, the Church operates in a way corresponding to its nature: through a teaching body which transmits the divine thought in the clothing of human words; through ministry which, by means of sensible rites, the sacraments, infuse supernatural life; through a government which makes known laws of the spirit in a form perceptible to the experience of the senses, the Church being the very prolongation of Christ in time and space.

Is this what you are referring to?
Click to expand...
Before I answer could you provide the link where you cut and pasted this article?
 
Hisalone said:
Jesus is the fullness of truth. Evidence shows that corruptable men deviated from this truth. Evidnce that reform was need in the Catholic Church at the time of the reformation is that of the counter reformation. If no reform was needed ten the counter reformation was not needed also.

The Holy Spirit insired the writting and the preservation of scripture. Catholics can take no credit for it.
Click to expand...
Another question that will undoubtably go unanswered. From an historical perspective, please explain to us what you mean by the “counter-reformation”?
 
There may be sufficient isomorphism between many different manifestations of Christianity to qualify them as being part of the one True Church. Only God knows the answer to this.
 
Tomster said:
Really?!

Since all authors write to communicate ideas, every text carries its own particular menaing. An exclusive property of the biblical texts is that they ofter have, in addition to their literal sense - which springs up directly from the words - a sense which is called typical. Such is the case when the words or the things expressed, or the persons described, have not only a literal, historical meaning, complete in itself, but are also pointed to signify other things, events, or persons. The type or figure is the thing or fact or person intended to signify another, called the antitype.

Can you independently distinguish between the senses of the whole Bible?
Click to expand...
Scripture was meant for everyone to read. There are some difficult passages and there are passages that there is disagreement on.However for the most part scripture is plain and easy to read.
 
Hisalone said:
Jesus is the fullness of truth. Evidence shows that corruptable men deviated from this truth. Evidnce that reform was need in the Catholic Church at the time of the reformation is that of the counter reformation. If no reform was needed ten the counter reformation was not needed also.

The Holy Spirit insired the writting and the preservation of scripture. Catholics can take no credit for it.
Click to expand...
LOL!!!:rotfl: … that is pretty funny… now it is either obvious you haven’t studied it or you refuse to accept it… Most honest Christians atleast admit that the Catholic Church played a role in canonizing the books of the NT, but I see you hate the CC even more than I thought.

I don’t even know what to say to you… you are so blinded by your hate that you can’t see beyond the year 1500… All I can say is you are wrong and the smallest amount of research is all it takes to reveal this.

SD
 
SD_Catholic said:
LOL!!!.. yes this has been a very successful technique over the past 500 years… how about instead you let him/her study the history, and what the early Christians taught about Jesus and Scripture, and compare that to the modern CC, and then let him/her ask that question.

You want to teach us Chrsitian history, but you need to let Christian history teach you… let With Questions study the history for his/herself… You already know you hate the CC, and study it only accepting the things that you think prove it wrong… That’s not the way to form an honest decision.

SD
Click to expand...
Where better to go to find what was originally taught than to scripture? Before the Hellenization of Christianity.
The honest way is to examine the original “plum line” of Christianity and see how far the deviation is.
 
Hisalone said:
Scripture was meant for everyone to read. There are some difficult passages and there are passages that there is disagreement on.However for the most part scripture is plain and easy to read.
Click to expand...
So is “Sports Illustrated”.

Who will interpreted the difficult passages in the Bible for you?
 
Hisalone said:
Where better to go to find what was originally taught than to scripture? Before the Hellenization of Christianity.
The honest way is to examine the original “plum line” of Christianity and see how far the deviation is.
Click to expand...
So there were no Christians before the Bible?.. how sad your line of thinking is… “Hellenization”… or you kidding me! Wow please tell me this doesn’t refer to the CC???

SD
 
Hisalone said:
Please provide that source.
Click to expand...
Let me see:

Sr. Ann Robert O.P - 1st grade
Sr. Bernice O.P. - 2nd grade
Sr. Mary Charlotte O.P. - 3rd grade
Sr. Mary Immaculata O.P. - 4th grade
Sr. Ignatius O.P. - 5th grade
Sr. Mary Helen O.P. - 6th grade
Sr. Ilene O.P. - 7th grade
Sr. Benedictus - 8th grade

All of these fine ladies were well schooled in Thomism, not to mention my high school teachers and Jesuit college profs.

Where did you get your theological training may I ask?
 
Hisalone said:
I cant however the Spirit of Truth can direct me to the true revelation of that truth.
Click to expand...
If that’s the case then the “difficult passages” will not be difficult for you. There would then be no difficult passages in the Bible which would then nullify your earlier statement regarding that there are difficult passages in the Bible. PUHLEEESE!
 
SD_Catholic said:
So there were no Christians before the Bible?.. how sad your line of thinking is… “Hellenization”… or you kidding me! Wow please tell me this doesn’t refer to the CC???

SD
Click to expand...
SD since you know history you know that ours is a religion of continuation. The history of Christianity did not start at Christ that is why you have the book of Genesis in your bible. Genesis means beginnings
We trace our roots back to Abraham. We have been grafted into his lineage.
 
Hisalone said:
SD since you know history you know that ours is a religion of continuation. The history of Christianity did not start at Christ that is why you have the book of Genesis in your bible. Genesis means beginnings
We trace our roots back to Abraham. We have been grafted into his lineage.
Click to expand...
So you don’t have a NT in your Bible… Don’t the Jews and Muslims trace their roots to Abraham also?

Please tell me you weren’t referring to the CC when you said “Hellenization” of Christianity???

SD
 
Tomster said:
Let me see:

Sr. Ann Robert O.P - 1st grade
Sr. Bernice O.P. - 2nd grade
Sr. Mary Charlotte O.P. - 3rd grade
Sr. Mary Immaculata O.P. - 4th grade
Sr. Ignatius O.P. - 5th grade
Sr. Mary Helen O.P. - 6th grade
Sr. Ilene O.P. - 7th grade
Sr. Benedictus - 8th grade

All of these fine ladies were well schooled in Thomism, not to mention my high school teachers and Jesuit college profs.

Where did you get your theological training may I ask?
Click to expand...
I was trained by the fine nuns of St Francis.

They taught me not to plagerize and take credit for the works of others.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top