A Historical Dare to Protestants

[Benjamin8o8]

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You can’t do it, can you?! Please don’t hide behind starting a new thread. You say a ton of stuff that is 'off topic! I am new on this site and don’t know how to start a new thead
Nor do I know what the OP is.

But I can see you are intimidated about breaking down the text. You might be concerned that you aren’t able to see how the first sentence shows this is not just about things in the past. If you really are able to exegete that passage and deal with what is in there, then start the thread.

The NT was written by men who were part of the universal (‘catholic’) church. It was a simple adjective, friend. But you need the same Holy Spirit they had in order to interpret. I’m beginnining to wonder if He lives in you. You don’t have to have the Holy Spirit to regurgitate things your church has published.

Jesus said He will send the Holy Spirit to the apostles. We Catholics (a simple adjective) are one Holy Catholic APOSTOLIC church. So it is you who dosen`t have the Holy Spirit to regurgiate things your man-made church has published.

 

[Tomster]

God’s Word is united and so it cannot cause divisions. It is people who cause divisions. The Catholic leadership has caused much division and strife within Christianity - for their version of “unity” is nothing short of submission to the Pope’s authority.

I feel sorry for those who wield authority as truth, rather than truth as authority. That’s really all you are talking about in your last few posts.

All that we Catholics have been saying is fully confirmed by the history of Protestantism. Having rejected the authority of the Church, the first so-called Reformers substituted the private judgment of the faithful. Individual judgment takes the place of all Church authority. Every man, they said, who hears or reads the Scripture, is enlightened and inspired by the Holy Spirit to such a degree that the Scriptures become clear to him, and the soul is filled with inspiration and good will. That illumination and inspiration, renders any outside authority useless and of no avail. Each one is sufficient to himself (so much for Protestant preachers, pastors, evangelists, etc.). Hence unversality and unity of faith must of necessity follow, as the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, is one, and cannot contradict Himself.

Beautiful theory indeed, but not supported by facts. The theory is nothing but illusion and deception. First of all, if the Holy Spirit illuminates and inspires in the same way everyone in the reading or hearing of the Scriptures, then there could not be but one Christian Church, and that Church could not be other than the Catholic Church. She was the first one that came out of the hands of the Son of God. Only with her did the Holy Spirit promise to abide forever.

Suppose, however, for the sake of argument, that the Catholic Church should be excluded from the illumination and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, then there should be but one great Protestant Church. For, the Protestant principle is the same, namely, that every one, who reads or hears the Scriptures is enlightened and inspired by the Holy Spirit. That illumination and inspiration must have the same conclusion in every one. It is the same Spirit, who illumines and inspires each. This principle, however, instead of being a bond of union, has proved to be a terrible cleaver, splitting Protestantism into divisions and subdivisions. Every Protestant can be a Church in himself and to himself.

I feel sorry for those who try to pass this off as truth.

 

[Tomster]

So that explains why all those thousands of Sola Scriptura Protestants are unified?

It is very interesting that they claim to be, isn’t it?

However we both know that the history of Protestantism is nothing but a history of variations. Not even the first Reformers could agree among themselves. Recognizing the fallacy of it all, Luther himself, writing to Zwingli, declared: “If the world will last much longer, on account of all the interpretations of the Scriptures, that now exist, in order to keep the unity of faith, it will be again necessary to receive the decrees of Councils and to have recourse to them.”

 

[SD_Catholic]

.

You can’t do it, can you?! Please don’t hide behind starting a new thread. You say a ton of stuff that is 'off topic! I am new on this site and don’t know how to start a new thead
Nor do I know what the OP is.

But I can see you are intimidated about breaking down the text. You might be concerned that you aren’t able to see how the first sentence shows this is not just about things in the past. If you really are able to exegete that passage and deal with what is in there, then start the thread.

The NT was written by men who were part of the universal (‘catholic’) church. It was a simple adjective, friend. But you need the same Holy Spirit they had in order to interpret. I’m beginnining to wonder if He lives in you. You don’t have to have the Holy Spirit to regurgitate things your church has published.

I’m pretty sure guanophore can answer your questions, and most the time already has, but if you don’t like it you say he didn’t answer it… Oh and I can pretty much promise that you don’t intimidate him

If you don’t understand the forum than look and study how it works and it will make it easier for you to accomplish the things you don’t understand about it… hmmmm interesting how that sounds

SD

 

[Katrina5]

Why are you here? Did you come to CAF just to criticize the Catholic faith? you are clearly very ignorant about Catholicism, and if you were willing to learn, could do that here. However, a mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.

I recently found out that many Protestants are trying to prove that their churches were founded before the Catholic church was. I was shocked, because anyone who knows history knows this can’t be.
Of course, they don’t know what “protestant” means-- they were protesting against the Catholic church.
But they are searching their minds and twisting facts to prove that there were little bands of non-Catholic Christians running around before 300- 400 AD. (Use of the term “non-Catholic” dates me as 1950’s era Catholic school educated Baby Boomer-- but that’s fine with me.)

They seem to be working terribly hard at doing this-- establishing churches centuries later in their imaginations.

And why do they come to CAF to do this? I think they want to challenge us so they can say, “See! You’re wrong! I’m right!” when that attitude is not what Catholicism is about. However, they see us that way-- as being right instead of good, and right instead of loving.

Let’s not fall into their trap.
(Now I will sit back and watch the onslaught that will ensue.)

 

[elvisman]

Since you bring up barbarism, then remember that there are almost the two millennia of genocide commited for and on behalf of the Catholic Church, against Christians.

In as much as it is consistent with the commandment of carrying out The Great Commission, it is entirely scriptural, and indeed, is something that must be obeyed.

If you meant something other than I think you meant, then your failure to clarify your request probably resulted in me providing an answer to a question other than the one that you asked.

1 Cor 6:11, Gal 5:25, Rom 7:18-21 imply otherwise.

Rephrasing: Exactly what Communion is, and represents, has been debated since the First Century. As such, it is an issue.

What is meant by each word, and how it is defined is crucial.

Is that an affirmation that you reject Catechism of the Catholic Church, as being a source for what Catholics believe? If not, then you need to define each and every word, because CCC clearly shows that it is Catholic Dogma to accept Jesus as one’s personal Lord and Saviour.

jonathon

What we have here is a failure to take Scripture in context. I show you verses that CLEARLY teach baptismal regeneration and you reply with verses - 2 of which have nothing to do with baptism. However, the one that did 1 Cor. 6:11 supports the Catholic view.

On the subject of barbarism - do some homework. You either need a history lesson or stop living in denial because there are plenty of examples in history of Protestants killing Christians (Catholics). As I said before - there is plenty of blame on both sides.

As for what Communion is or is not - the historical Church has spoken on the matter through the ages against the heretical belief that it is merely symbolic. And, as St. Agustine says, "Rome has spoken; the case is closed."

Finally - please show me where the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that iot is Catholic Dogma that we are to accept Jesus as “personal Lord and Savior”. You can’t because it’s not there.

 

[elvisman]

I can’t post it here (copyright violation) but I’ve got a short book that explains, using Scripture why God planned for there to be a number of different denominations. (Title is Why God planned for Different Denominations.)

It takes pericopes from the Torah, The Writings, The Gospels, The Pauline Epistles, and the Non-Pauline Epistles, to make its case.

jonathon

I thought you believed in Sola Scriptura - not some book published by a non-ispired writer.

 

[elvisman]

I already gave you a reply; but you don’t like it. Instead of the big “dance” charade; you could give us another Bible answer like your last one.

I figured you didn’t have an answer.
This is a tough one for Protestants. Just another proof that the Catholic church is the ONE Church established by Jesus - and not one of your denominations . . .

 

[elvisman]

Errrrr not so fast. Jesus addresses seven churches in the Revelation and warns that certain things can cause Him to pluck one of them right out of the lampstand! Do you factor those passages into your ecclesiology? Any church, whether in Rome or Atlanta, that does not hold fast to the Word and to its passion can be vomitted right out of Jesus’ mouth. Read it and weep. Some would say that Rome was removed a long time ago.

**The 7 Churches (parishes/diocese) spoken of at the beginning of Revelation were all Catholic. Some of those parishes were chastised because of their indifference and lack of works. **
The Catholic Church is the only Church that holds fast to everything Jesus taught - not just the things we pick and choose like the Protestant denominations.

Some of the ridiculous statements you make such as, “Some would say that Rome was removed a long time ago”, have no basis in fact and are, therefore, discounted.

 

[Tomster]

I thought you believed in Sola Scriptura - not some book published by a non-ispired writer.

Good point!

From the beginning of the Reformation down to our own times, the exercise of private judgment has been limited to those, who by dint of strong character have been able to create new denominations and creeds. “Private judgment,” that is, “the open Bible and nothing but the Bible with a free interpretation for all,” is nothing but a lure to entice the masses. It only serves to flatter the pride and to deceive ignorant people. In reality, it does not belong to the masses, but it is the privilege of the few. The masses are always moved and led to do the work of others.

This lack of serious reflection and of sound consciousness is nowhere better revealed than in the belief and practices of our separated brethren. The principal denominations, which are still proud of their Christian origin and name have retained, even in our days, many doctrines and practices, which they have inherited from no other source than Tradition. Some of these doctrines and practices are not even mentioned in the Scriptures. Yet the Protestant masses believe that they are acting according not to Tradition, but to the Scriptures.

 

[catholic_daddy]

Frankly … that is the only argument Protestants end up using as the ultimate denier of another’s witness … I do not see Catholics using this but in an instant you can judge another man’s intent and motive.

What response is there when someone asks you if you have stopped beating your wife … because that is what you are saying.
You do if you believe it … You cannot regurgitate what is not inside you … or am I missing something.

So let me ask where do you get your information …you do not read theolgians to help you understand, you do not discuss this at your church or are you saying everything you wrote is your original idea … it is your uniquely developed theology.

I definitely read theologians and sat under a bunch for 3.1/2 yrs in seminary. But I also know how to analyze a passage and sllow the Holy Spirit to illumine it. Questioning someone’s possession of the Spirit is by no means the necessary last resort. I repeatedly ask posters to explain the text. But folks like Guano don’t want to. They instead want to just tell you what they’ve been told it DOESN’T mean. That reveals a fatal flaw.

 

[Tomster]

I figured you didn’t have an answer.
This is a tough one for Protestants. Just another proof that the Catholic church is the ONE Church established by Jesus - and not one of your denominations . . .

What is also interesting, to me anyway, is that our separated brethren have somehow evolved a system of distinguishing what articles of faith are “fundamental” and “not fundamental” to be necessarily believed. Such system is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures. Still they approve of it and they wonder why the Catholic Church does not even take much notice of it. Their reasoning is strange indeed! When we consider that there are many things, known only from Tradition, which are not approved by them, because not found in the Scriptures, while on the other hand they act and live according to certain Traditions, which are not found in the Scriptures, we Catholics understand the lamentable spiritual condition of all non-Catholic denominations, and I, for one, dread the labyrinth in which all Protestantism is miserably lost.

There is only one way out of it: a speedy return to the Catholic Church.

 

[elvisman]

What is also interesting, to me anyway, is that our separated brethren have somehow evolved a system of distinguishing what articles of faith are “fundamental” and “not fundamental” to be necessarily believed. Such system is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures. Still they approve of it and they wonder why the Catholic Church does not even take much notice of it. Their reasoning is strange indeed! When we consider that there are many things, known only from Tradition, which are not approved by them, because not found in the Scriptures, while on the other hand they act and live according to certain Traditions, which are not found in the Scriptures, we Catholics understand the lamentable spiritual condition of all non-Catholic denominations, and I, for one, dread the labyrinth in which all Protestantism is miserably lost.

There is only one way out of it: a speedy return to the Catholic Church.

Yup.
The notion that the Bible is the sole rule of faith and last court of arbitration is a self-refuting doctrine.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

But what I don’t understand is that you, as the Catholic, should be able to show us the history that would affect the answers people see to the OPs question. You are repeating the same mistake that most of the Catholics make here - you simply repeat the claims about your Church, without real proof that the claims are so.

Rome’s doctrines and practices thereof have not changed since the time when they did all their “Inquisition” ministry. In countries where she can get away with it - you can bet the legislation in favor of Catholic doctrines; in fact ENFORCING Catholic doctrine, is still flying high. Rome is waiting, with a more conciliatory tone in other countries where it is not allowed; but the time will come.

If Protestants are so wrong about Church History; how come you can’t prove that the Roman Catholic Church no longer has the same political desires as it had during the Papacy of the middle ages? What happened to “Infallibility?” The big dare here should really be to the Catholics.

Hi guanophore,

Since Protestant101 did not provide any evidence to support his claims highlighted in red above, I thought I would provide the quotes and sources from which these ideas arise.

Ellen Gould White (adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html)
18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and **authoritative source of truth **which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

From her writings:

***The Great Controversy (1888), page 564, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Chapter XXXV - Character and Aims of the Papacy
The papal church will never relinquish her claim to infallibility. All that she has done in her persecution of those who reject her dogmas, she holds to be right; and would she not repeat the same acts, should the opportunity be presented? Let the restraints now imposed by secular governments be removed, and Rome be re-instated in her former power, and there would speedily be a revival of her tyranny and persecution. ***

***The Great Controversy (1911), page 76, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: The Waldenses
The very existence of this people, holding the faith of the ancient church, was a constant testimony to Rome’s apostasy, and therefore excited the most bitter hatred and persecution. Their refusal to surrender the Scriptures was also an offense that Rome could not tolerate. She determined to blot them from the earth. Now began the most terrible crusades against God’s people in their mountain homes. Inquisitors were put upon their track, and the scene of innocent Abel falling before the murderous Cain was often repeated. ***

Maranatha (1976), page 165, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Apostasy Prepares the Way
Whenever the church has obtained secular power, she has employed it to punish dissent from her doctrines. Protestant churches that have followed in the steps of Rome by forming alliance with worldly powers have manifested a similar desire to restrict liberty of conscience. An example of this is given in the long-continued persecution of dissenters by the Church of England. During the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, thousands of nonconformist ministers were forced to flee from their churches, and many, both of pastors and people, were subjected to fine, imprisonment, torture, and martyrdom.

***The Story of Redemption (1947), page 354, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: 49: Failure to Advance
As Satan saw that he had failed to crush out the truth by persecution, he again resorted to the same plan of compromise which had led to the great apostasy and the formation of the church of Rome. He induced Christians to ally themselves, not now with pagans,
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but with those who, by their worship of the god of this world, as truly proved themselves idolaters. ***

The Colporteur Evangelist (1950), page 99, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Chapter 16 - Fragments
As long as probation continues, there will be opportunity for the canvasser to work. When the religious denominations unite with the papacy to oppress God’s people, places where there is religious freedom will be opened by evangelistic canvassing. If in one place the persecution becomes severe, let the workers do as Christ has directed. “When they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another.” If persecution comes there, go to still another place. God will lead His people, making them a blessing in many
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places. Were it not for persecution they would not be so widely scattered abroad to proclaim the truth. And Christ declares: “Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.” Matthew 10:23. Until in heaven is spoken the word, “It is finished,” there will always be places for labor, and hearts to receive the message.–Testimonies, Vol. 6, page 478.

***Evangelism (1946), page 235, paragraph 4
Chapter Title: Preaching the Distinctive Truths
Caution in Presenting the Sunday Question.–[We are] not to provoke those who have accepted this spurious sabbath, an institution of the Papacy in the place of God’s holy Sabbath. Their not having the
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Bible arguments in their favor makes them all the more angry and determined to supply the place of arguments that are wanting in the Word of God by the power of their might. The force of persecution follows the steps of the dragon. Therefore great care should be exercised to give no provocation.–Letter 55, 1886. ***

(see con’t 2)

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

(con’t 2)

The Great Controversy (1888), page 442, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Chapter XXV - God’s Law Immutable
The lamb-like horns and dragon voice of the symbol point to a striking contradiction between the professions and the practice of the nation thus represented. The “speaking” of the nation is the action of its legislative and judicial authorities. By such action it will give the lie to those liberal and peaceful principles which it has put forth as the foundation of its policy. The prediction that it will speak “as a dragon,” and exercise “all the power of the first beast,” plainly foretells a development of the spirit of intolerance and persecution that was manifested by the nations represented by the dragon and the leopard-like beast. And the statement that the beast with two horns “causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast,” indicates that the authority of this nation is to be exercised in enforcing some observance which shall be an act of homage to the papacy.

***Selected Messages Book 3 (1980), page 384, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Lessons From Meeting the Sunday Law Crisis of the Late 1880’s and Early 1890’s
[We are] not to provoke those who have accepted the spurious sabbath, an institution of the Papacy, in the place of God’s holy Sabbath. Their not having the Bible arguments in their favor makes them all the more angry and determined to supply the place of arguments that are wanting in the Word of God by the power of their might. The force of persecution follows the steps of the dragon. Therefore great care should be exercised to give no provocation. And again, let us as a people, as far as possible, cleanse the camp of moral defilement and aggravating sins. . . . ***

***S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7 (1957), page 976, paragraph 4
Chapter Title: Revelation
Apostasy and National Ruin.–When the Protestant churches shall unite with the secular power to sustain a false religion, for opposing which their ancestors endured the fiercest persecution; when the state shall use its power to enforce the decrees and sustain the institutions of the church–then will Protestant America have formed an image to the papacy, and there will be a national apostasy which will end only in national ruin (ST March 22, 1910). ***

***S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7 (1957), page 976, paragraph 9
Chapter Title: Revelation
Trial and persecution will come to all who, in obedience to the Word of God, refuse to worship this false sabbath. Force is the last resort of every false religion. At first it tries attraction, as the king of Babylon tried the power of music and outward show. If these attractions, invented by men inspired by Satan, failed to make men worship the image, the hungry flames of the furnace were ready to consume them. So it will be now. The papacy has exercised her power to compel men to obey her, and she will continue to do so. We need the same spirit that was manifested by God’s servants in the conflict with paganism (ST May 6, 1897). ***

The Spirit of Prophecy Volume Four (1884), page 88, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Chapter V. - Early Reformers.
About this time, strife was caused in the church by the conflicting claims of two rival popes. Each professed infallibility, and demanded obedience. Each called upon the faithful to assist him to make war upon the other, enforcing his demand by terrible anathemas against his adversaries, and promises of rewards in Heaven to his supporters. This occurrence greatly weakened the power of the papacy, and saved Wycliffe from further persecution.

The Spirit of Prophecy Volume Four (1884), page 397, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Chapter XXX. - Character and Aims of the Papacy.
The Christian world will learn what Romanism really is, when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. Throughout the land she is piling up her lofty and massive structures, in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. She is stealthily and unsuspectedly strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is soon to be given her. In the near future we shall see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution.

(see con’t 3)

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

(con’t 3)

***The Story of Redemption (1947), page 381, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: 54: The Third Angel’s Message
By this first beast is represented the Roman Church, an ecclesiastical body clothed with civil power, having authority to punish all dissenters. The image to the beast represents another religious body clothed with similar powers. The formation of this image is the work of that beast whose peaceful rise and mild professions render it so striking a symbol of the United States. Here is to be found an image of the Papacy. When the churches of our land, uniting upon such points of faith as are held by them in common, shall
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influence the State to enforce their decrees and sustain their institutions, then will Protestant America have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy. Then the true church will be assailed by persecution, as were God’s ancient people. ***

***The Review and Herald, January 1, 1889, paragraph 9
Article Title: The Present Crisis.-By Mrs. E. G. White.-
Many will plead that there is no prospect that popery will ever be revived. If it shall regain its lost ascendancy, it will be by Protestantism’s giving it the right hand of fellowship. If it shall be legislated into power by the concessions of time-serving men, the fires of persecution will be rekindled against those who will not sacrifice conscience and the truth for the errors of the papacy. Once let the minds of the Christian world be turned away from God; let his law be dishonored and his holy day trampled upon, and they will be ready to take any step where Satan may lead the way. ***

The Signs of the Times , November 8, 1899, paragraph 6
Article Title: The Seal of God. No. 2.
When the State shall enforce the decrees and sustain the institutions of the church, then will Protestant America have formed an image of the Papacy. Then the true church will be assailed by persecution as were God’s people in ancient times. Almost every century furnishes instances of what human hearts, controlled by rage and malice, can do under a plea of serving God by protecting the rights of the church and State. The Protestant churches that have followed in the steps of Rome by forming alliances with worldly powers have manifested a similar desire to restrict liberty of conscience. How many non-conformist ministers have suffered under the power of the Church of England! Persecution always follows a restriction of religious liberty on the part of secular governments.

---

The Signs of the Times , February 8, 1910, paragraph 5
Article Title: The Dragon VoiceBy Mrs. E. G. White
A New Persecutor
At the time when the Papacy, robbed of its strength, was forced to desist from persecution, John beheld a new power coming up to echo the dragon’s voice, and carry forward the same cruel and blasphemous work. This power, the last that is to wage war against the church and the law of God, is represented by a beast with lamblike horns. The beasts preceding it had risen from the sea; but this came up out of the earth, representing the peaceful rise of the nation which it symbolized–the United States.***

***The Signs of the Times , March 22, 1910, paragraph 9
Article Title: The Sign of LoyaltyBy Mrs. E. G. White
With rapid steps we are approaching this period. When the Protestant churches shall unite with the secular power to sustain a false religion, for opposing which their ancestors endured the fiercest persecution: when the state shall use its power to enforce the decrees and sustain the institutions of the church,–then will Protestant America have formed an image to the Papacy, and there will be a national apostasy which will end only in national ruin. ***

***The Great Controversy (1888), page 567, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Chapter XXXV - Character and Aims of the Papacy
The church’s claim to the right to pardon, causes the Romanist to feel at liberty to sin; and the ordinance of confession, without which her pardon is not granted, tends also to give license to evil. He who kneels before fallen man, and opens in confession the secret thoughts and imaginations of his heart, is debasing his manhood, and degrading every noble instinct of his soul. In unfolding the sins of his life to a priest,–an erring, sinful mortal, and too often corrupted with wine and licentiousness,–his standard of character is lowered, and he is defiled in consequence. His thought of God is degraded to the likeness of fallen humanity; for the priest stands as a representative of God. This degrading confession of man to man is the secret spring from which has flowed much of the evil that is defiling the world, and fitting it for the final destruction. Yet to him who loves self-indulgence, it is more pleasing to confess to a fellow-mortal than to open the soul to God. It is more palatable to human nature to do penance than to renounce sin; it is easier to mortify the flesh by sackcloth and nettles and
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galling chains than to crucify fleshly lusts. Heavy is the yoke which the carnal heart is willing to bear rather than bow to the yoke of Christ. ***

(see con’t 4)

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

(con’t 4)

***The Spirit of Prophecy Volume Four (1884), page 383, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: Chapter XXX. - Character and Aims of the Papacy.
A religion of externals is attractive to the unrenewed heart. The pomp and ceremony of the Catholic worship have a seductive, bewitching power by which many are deceived; and they come to look upon the Roman Church as the very gate of Heaven. None are proof against her influence but those who have planted their feet firmly upon the foundation of truth, and whose hearts are renewed by the Spirit of God. Thousands who have not an experimental knowledge of Christ will be swept into this deception.
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A form of godliness without the power is just what they desire. The Romanist feels at liberty to sin, because the church claims the right to pardon. To him who loves self-indulgence, it is more pleasing to confess to a fellow-mortal than to open the soul to God. It is more palatable to human nature to do penance than to renounce sin. It is easier to mortify the flesh by sackcloth and nettles and galling chains than to crucify fleshly lusts. Heavy is the yoke which the carnal heart is willing to bear rather than bow to the yoke of Christ. ***

The Review and Herald, November 11, 1890, paragraph 5
Article Title: The Mystic Ladder.-By Mrs. E. G. White.-
When Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life,” he uttered a truth of wonderful significance. The transgression of man had separated earth from heaven, and finite man from the infinite God. As an island is separated from a continent, so earth was cut off from heaven, and a wide channel intervened between man and God. Jesus bridged this gulf, and made a way for man to come to God. He who has no spiritual light sees no way, has no hope; and men have originated theories of their own regarding the way to life. The Romanist points the sinner to the Virgin Mary, to penances, indulgences, and the absolution of the priest; and to this theory come those who would be saved in their sins, and those who would be saved by their own merit.

The Signs of the Times , February 19, 1894, paragraph 3
Article Title: Romanism the Religion of Human Nature.-By Mrs. E. G. White.-
To the Romanist the Bible is a forbidden book, because it plainly reveals the errors of the Roman system; and whoever searches the Bible with an enlightened understanding, cannot long be in harmony with Romanism. He who searches the Bible to understand the truth, will find no authority in the word of God for the assumption of power on the part of popes and cardinals. There is no word of God that sanctions their assumed superiority or supremacy over their people, as there is no word to sanction the claim that Lucifer made in heaven of superiority over Christ. The claim of the Papacy to superiority is made under the influence of the first great usurper, who so persistently urged his right to supremacy over the host of God. Through the Dark Ages,–that long night of ignorance and superstition,–the claim of the Papacy to superiority and supremacy was conceded by emperors and kings, although God had sanctioned no such concession, and raised up men to dispute the claim, and to break the Romish yoke from the church of God. Through his appointed agencies God summoned the church to reassert her independence, and in the strength of God she stood forth in the liberty wherewith Christ had made her free. She broke away from the papal yoke, and with the word of God in her hand, met the giant evil of Romanism, even as David met Goliath in the name of heaven, using his sling and a few pebblestones. The defier of Israel was slain before the man of faith; and while men cling to the word of the Lord, they cannot affiliate with the great system of error.

Christian Service (1925), page 160, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: Religious Liberty
When our nation shall so abjure the principles of its government as to enact a Sunday law, Protestantism will in this act join hands with popery; it will be nothing else than giving life to the tyranny which has long been eagerly watching its opportunity to spring again into active despotism. --Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 712.

(see con’t 5)

 

[Tomster]

Yup.
The notion that the Bible is the sole rule of faith and last court of arbitration is a self-refuting doctrine.

You know, although all Protestants, blithely unaware of any kinship between themselves and Luther, sincerely abhor and reject the very word dogma and repudiate the infallibility of the pope, the rigid, unbending tradition, with Luther’s basic dogma at its core, holds the status of infallibility. This is because Protestants, liberal and Fundamentalist alike, are unable to distinguish between Luther’s errors and Holy Scripture, and therefore never, ever compare his teaching to the Bible. Liberal Protestants do not care if their adherents depart from Luther’s teachings, provided always that they do not accept Catholic doctrine, while Fundamentalists permit no one to depart from them.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

(con’t 5)

The Great Controversy (1911), page 566, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Liberty of Conscience Threatened
Protestants have tampered with and patronized popery; they have made compromises and concessions which papists themselves are surprised to see and fail to understand. Men are closing their eyes to the real character of Romanism and the dangers to be apprehended from her supremacy. The people need to be aroused to resist the advances of this most dangerous foe to civil and religious liberty.

***Last Day Events (1992), page 128, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Sunday Laws
The United States Will Pass a Sunday Law
When our nation shall so abjure the principles of its government as to enact a Sunday law, Protestantism will in this act join hands with popery.–5T 712 (1889). ***

***Last Day Events (1992), page 132, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Sunday Laws
A day of great intellectual darkness has been shown to be favorable to the success of popery. It will yet be demonstrated that a day of great intellectual light is equally favorable for its success.–4SP 390 (1884). ***

***Last Day Events (1992), page 133, paragraph 4
Chapter Title: Sunday Laws
The people of the United States have been a favored people, but when they restrict religious liberty, surrender Protestantism, and give countenance to popery, the measure of their guilt will be full, and “national apostasy” will be registered in the books of heaven.–RH May 2, 1893. ***

Last Day Events (1992), page 145, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: The Little Time of Trouble
Church and State Oppose God’s People
All who will not bow to the decree of the national councils and obey the national laws to exalt the sabbath instituted by the man of sin, to the disregard of God’s holy day, will feel, not the oppressive power of popery alone, but of the Protestant world, the image of the beast.–2SM 380 (1886).

***Last Day Events (1992), page 147, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: The Little Time of Trouble
All Kinds of Persecution
The persecutions of Protestants by Romanism, by which the religion of Jesus Christ was almost annihilated, will be more than rivaled when Protestantism and popery are combined.–3SM 387 (1889). ***

Maranatha (1976), page 131, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: Momentous Struggle Before Us
If popery or its principles shall again be legislated into power, the fires of persecution will be rekindled against those who will not sacrifice conscience and the truth in deference to popular errors. This evil is on the point of realization.

***Maranatha (1976), page 190, paragraph 4
Chapter Title: The Threefold Union of Religion
When our nation [the United States] shall so abjure the principles of its government as to enact a Sunday law, Protestantism will in this act join hands with popery; it will be nothing else than giving life to the tyranny which has long been eagerly watching its opportunity to spring again into active despotism. ***

***Maranatha (1976), page 194, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Persecution by Protestants and Catholics
The persecutions of Protestants by Romanism, by which the religion of Jesus Christ was almost annihilated, will be more than rivaled when Protestantism and popery are combined. ***

***Selected Messages Book 3 (1980), page 386, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Lessons From Meeting the Sunday Law Crisis of the Late 1880’s and Early 1890’s
This contest is to decide whether the pure gospel shall have the field in our nation, or whether the popery of past ages shall receive the right hand of fellowship from Protestantism, and this power prevail to restrict religious liberty. . . . The message must go broadcast, that those who have been imperceptibly tampering with popery, not knowing what they were doing, may hear. They are fraternizing with popery by compromises and by concessions which surprise the adherents of the papacy. . . ***

***S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7 (1957), page 975, paragraph 10
Chapter Title: Revelation
Here the great crisis is coming upon the world. The Scriptures teach that popery is to regain its lost supremacy, and that the fires of persecution will be rekindled through the timeserving concessions of the so-called Protestant world (GCB April 13, 1891). ***

***The Signs of the Times , June 30, 1898, paragraph 2
Article Title: Dangers which Threaten.
The defenders of popery declare that she has been maligned; and the Protestant world is inclined to accept the statement. Many urge that it is unjust to judge the Romish Church of today by the abominations and absurdities that marked her reign during the centuries of ignorance and darkness. They excuse her horrible cruelty as the result of the barbarism of the times, and plead that civilization has changed her sentiments. ***

There is more, but I’ll limit the quotes posted at this point in time.

God bless all!!!

 

[broski234]

What is also interesting, to me anyway, is that our separated brethren have somehow evolved a system of distinguishing what articles of faith are “fundamental” and “not fundamental” to be necessarily believed. Such system is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures. Still they approve of it and they wonder why the Catholic Church does not even take much notice of it. Their reasoning is strange indeed! When we consider that there are many things, known only from Tradition, which are not approved by them, because not found in the Scriptures, while on the other hand they act and live according to certain Traditions, which are not found in the Scriptures, we Catholics understand the lamentable spiritual condition of all non-Catholic denominations, and I, for one, dread the labyrinth in which all Protestantism is miserably lost.

There is only one way out of it: a speedy return to the Catholic Church.

Yeah, Tom, I know what you’re talking about. I believe they refer to that as the Essentials vs. Non Essential doctrines.