A Historical Dare to Protestants

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reccanboy said:
History won you over to Rome? I fail to see an Immaculate Conception, Assumption of Mary, Treasury of Merit, Papal Infallibility, and Infallible Church etc., in the first 4 centuries of the Church.
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You’re not a very cooperative reviewer of history. You’re not supposed to look at THAT part of history!
 
Protestant101 said:
Every Church makes this claim about their doctrine.
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Exactly, and that is why you need something besides Scripture. A source document alone cannot suffice. Just imagine the anarchy we would have if it was decided that every person on the street could have an authoritative interpretation of the US Constitution.
 
MariaG said:
Absolutely! And no doctrine of the Catholic Church does contradict scripture.
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I noticed that more than one poster has just said that no Catholic doctrine contradicts scripture - interesting that no one has mentioned the part I also said in that post about how no doctrine can be independent of scripture.

There are other threads to discuss those kinds of differences, but my point is that the Bible doesn’t make “history” a criteria for truth.
 
Protestant101 said:
Every Church makes this claim about their doctrine.
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And yet since scripture tells us that there will be those who will come along teaching falsely, it would behoove one to seriously look at the claim of the one who was there first, as opposed to those who came along.
 
Protestant101 said:
I noticed that more than one poster has just said that no Catholic doctrine contradicts scripture - interesting that no one has mentioned the part I also said in that post about how no doctrine can be independent of scripture.

There are other threads to discuss those kinds of differences, but my point is that the Bible doesn’t make “history” a criteria for truth.
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Where does it say no doctrine can be independent of Scripture?
 
nsper7 said:
Exactly, and that is why you need something besides Scripture. A source document alone cannot suffice. Just imagine the anarchy we would have if it was decided that every person on the street could have an authoritative interpretation of the US Constitution.
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There is anarchy all over the place, including in spiritual realms. I’d like to see some definitive proof that “the same interpretation” will eliminate anarchy. Could you even show us from history, let alone Scripture?
 
nsper7 said:
Where does it say no doctrine can be independent of Scripture?
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If it is; it would be OK, only if it did not contradict something in scripture.

History shows that the Catholic Church is no different than any other denomination in developing their own interpretations of truth. They don’t have a handle on it anymore than anyone else!
 
nsper7 said:
As I have come to learn, there is no “Roman Catholic Church”. There is the Catholic Church, which is commonly called “Roman” because it is headquartered out of Rome. Technically, the Latin (some might say Roman) Rite of the Catholic is but one Rite out of a couple dozen.
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I know that’s what they teach you in RCIA, but tell me, what does RCIA stand for?
 
Protestant101 said:
If it is; it would be OK, only if it did not contradict something in scripture.
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Come again? I am not sure what you are getting at.
History shows that the Catholic Church is no different than any other denomination in developing their own interpretations of truth. They don’t have a handle on it anymore than anyone else!
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The Catholic Church is certainly different from every other “denomination”: it existed first.
 
w_stewart said:
So you believe the Scriptures are the sources of truth because the Scriptures say so?

Well, that is not much of a circular reasoning, don’t you think?
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When those Scriptures contain over 300 specific prophecies aboiut the coming Messiah, all written hundreds of years before Jesus, and he fulfilled evry one of them, intelligent people take note when they state they are the source of truth.
 
catholic_daddy said:
When those Scriptures contain over 300 specific prophecies aboiut the coming Messiah, all written hundreds of years before Jesus, and he fulfilled evry one of them, intelligent people take note when they state they are the source of truth.
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Certainly Scripture is an authoritative source of doctrine, but is the only authoritative source? Catholics would say that, along with Scripture, there is the Magesterium, the Church founded by Christ and His Apostles and granted certain authority.

Certainly, in Acts we see the Church using this authority, both in creation of the deacon and the resolution of the issue of whether a person has to be a Jew before becoming a Christian (this was resolve by the Council of Jerusalem). In each case, the Church was forming doctrine (no deacons before this event and, prior to the Council of Jerusalem, there were arguments both ways about whether one had to be Jewish * before one became Christian). Also, we see the Apostles passing down their Apostolic Authority (to Stephen and Matthias and Paul…it is interesting to note that even St. Paul’s ‘calling’ had to be affirmed by the Church).*
 
catholic_daddy said:
When those Scriptures contain over 300 specific prophecies aboiut the coming Messiah, all written hundreds of years before Jesus, and he fulfilled evry one of them, intelligent people take note when they state they are the source of truth.
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The question remains:

Who compiled those Scriptures (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) about the fulfillment of the prophecies in Jesus?
 
nsper7 said:
Where does it say no doctrine can be independent of Scripture?
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YOU can have any doctrine YOU want. We will judge it based on God’s word through the illumination and guidance of the Holy Spirit, and you won’t understand, but I don’t think its written anywhere that that matters.
 
One other thing, Petros/Petra (Greek) versus Cephas (Aramaic) argument aside, why did Jesus hand St. Peter the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 16:19)?
 
catholic_daddy said:
YOU can have any doctrine YOU want. We will judge it based on God’s word through the illumination and guidance of the Holy Spirit, and you won’t understand, but I don’t think its written anywhere that that matters.
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My my, how the arrogance comes out now.

Also, which one of several thousand denominations is this ‘we’ of whom you speak?
 
w_stewart said:
The question remains:

Who compiled those Scriptures (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) about the fulfillment of the prophecies in Jesus?
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What was compiled was commonly known and had been discussed and “documented” for years among the people. You’re barking up the wrong tree.
 
catholic_daddy said:
YOU can have any doctrine YOU want. We will judge it based on God’s word
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Which the Catholic Church gave you:)
through the illumination and guidance of the Holy Spirit,
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which “fact” has not yet been established since the guidance of the Holy Spirit was given to the Catholic Church so doctrines contradicting those which the Church of Christ proclaims are highly suspect.
and you won’t understand, but I don’t think its written anywhere that that matters.
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You’rie right it is not written anywwhere.
 
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