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humbleseeker
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That’s quite the complex you got there
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VonDerTann
Guest
Now David, don’t get snippy! (Don’t worry, I’m joking, but be nice to Irishmom.
See, now you’re changing your answers.
So NOW you’re saying a disease is a “complete hoax” if you “almost never get it.”
So, since most people will never get black lung, or colitis, or carpal tunnel…does that mean they’re hoaxes too?
See, now you’re changing your answers.
So NOW you’re saying a disease is a “complete hoax” if you “almost never get it.”
So, since most people will never get black lung, or colitis, or carpal tunnel…does that mean they’re hoaxes too?
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bsy
Guest
@David I was not replying to you but to the OP. @JSAD
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Irishmom2
Guest
You said you got your “empty hospital” statistics from the CDC. Then you called me lazy and posted a link to some useless article that was not the CDC statistic/fact about the hospitals. It was a round up of stories about people reporting empty hospital parking lots. (Duh, yeah, most of the country is staying home these days.)
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humbleseeker
Guest
Jesus administered righteous judgement. You’re just insulting people who happen not to agree with you.
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VonDerTann
Guest
Ohhh…I see now. It’s a “complete hoax” when it’s blown out of proportion.
So because drunk driving and alcoholism are talked about a lot - does that make them hoaxes? Opioid addiction? Lots of people think that’s blown out of proportion. I guess that’s a hoax too.
Some observations:
First, you’ve changed your definition of a “complete hoax” 3 times in under 15 minutes. First it needed a million deaths. Then it needed to not be self-caused. Now it needs to be “not blown out of proportion.”
Second, you used a really harsh, nasty phrase for a disease that has killed many people and will sadly kill many more and cause untold human misery:
You called it a “complete hoax.”
And when called on that, you had to resort to all sorts of sophistry, verbal gymnastics, changing definitions, etc., because you know you got called on it.
It’s not a hoax. Anyone with a relative who gets it knows that, and anyone who works in health care knows it too.
Good night.
So because drunk driving and alcoholism are talked about a lot - does that make them hoaxes? Opioid addiction? Lots of people think that’s blown out of proportion. I guess that’s a hoax too.
Some observations:
First, you’ve changed your definition of a “complete hoax” 3 times in under 15 minutes. First it needed a million deaths. Then it needed to not be self-caused. Now it needs to be “not blown out of proportion.”
Second, you used a really harsh, nasty phrase for a disease that has killed many people and will sadly kill many more and cause untold human misery:
You called it a “complete hoax.”
And when called on that, you had to resort to all sorts of sophistry, verbal gymnastics, changing definitions, etc., because you know you got called on it.
It’s not a hoax. Anyone with a relative who gets it knows that, and anyone who works in health care knows it too.
Good night.
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otjm
Guest
Okay, let’s look at the numbers. On January 24th, we had two (as in not one, not three) cases identified in the US. As of 4 days ago, in 32 days - a bit over one month - we have had 213,144 cases. Those two cases are not the source alone for all of the 200,000+ cases.
The duplication rate is between 6.2 days (cases double) to as little as 2 days (cases double). Shektering in place, and maintaining a safe distance from others will flatten that out somewhat, as the next numbers will show.
The CDC number of 213,144 cases was in 32 days. That, since you seem to be a math person, is called an exponential growth rate.
Because we have, by and large, started to shelter in place, the exponential curve is moving toward flattening. It has not flattened, but the rate seems to be slowing down. The number 1 day before was 186,101. Math says that is an increase of 27,043 cases reported in one day. Math says that in one day, the numnber oc cases increased by 14.5317%. In one day.
Notice I said “flattened” For math wizzes, that means that growth will reach stasis, where we continue to have cases, with minor fluctuations up and down, but without the explosive growth.
Wow. What a “hoax”! 14%+ increase in one day.
If you think this is a hoax, I can make you a really great deal on some ocean front property in Arizona.
I not only looked up the number, but I did the math.
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farronwolf
New member
Here you go. Just pulled this snipped from one of their stories.
China’s business model is existentially flawed. It has extraordinary debt that is multiples of its GDP,
Wrong. Their debt is a little over 50% of their GDP. Whereas the US debt is over 100% of GDP.
Took all of about 3 minutes to find false information on their page. Look it up if you don’t believe me.
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Freddy
Guest
Of course you are. I mean, who doesn’t take stringent precautions against hoaxes? Some people think the world is flat. What utter nonsense. But you won’t catch me sailing too close to the horizon! I’m no fool…
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VonDerTann
Guest
Farron, you are wrong, in part because your data is out of date. Your data was correct in 2018.
The Institute for International Finance has reported (via Reuters 5/6/19) that
China’s debt ballooned to 300% of its GDP and as of then accounted for 15% of global debt.
This also shows how China’s debt exploded overnight - just like covid has.
So in other words, you were wrong, and the site I plugged was correct.
The Institute for International Finance has reported (via Reuters 5/6/19) that
China’s debt ballooned to 300% of its GDP and as of then accounted for 15% of global debt.
This also shows how China’s debt exploded overnight - just like covid has.
So in other words, you were wrong, and the site I plugged was correct.
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farronwolf
New member
The article did not specify that they were including all debt. It said China’s, not total debt held by the country, all persons and businesses.
If we are going to compare that to all debt held in the US, they still beat us hands down. Some estimates are the US debt of the country, businesses and individuals are at 2,000 percent of GDP.
If the American Thinker is going to use figures in their articles, they should specify what they are talking about. When folks talk about national debt, it is almost always the debt of the country not everything and everyone included.
If we are going to compare that to all debt held in the US, they still beat us hands down. Some estimates are the US debt of the country, businesses and individuals are at 2,000 percent of GDP.
If the American Thinker is going to use figures in their articles, they should specify what they are talking about. When folks talk about national debt, it is almost always the debt of the country not everything and everyone included.
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VonDerTann
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Well, see, now that’s a very different claim than you made earlier, which was that both the site and its founder have “repeatedly been proven” to have put out “false information.”
Saying that an entire site and its founder have “repeatedly” been “proven” to have disseminated “false information” is 1000% different from, “well, the data quoted may be a bit different in my opinion…”
Your posts are really a mirror of David Catholics: shoot from the hip, then do lots of contortions when called on them.
Saying that an entire site and its founder have “repeatedly” been “proven” to have disseminated “false information” is 1000% different from, “well, the data quoted may be a bit different in my opinion…”
Your posts are really a mirror of David Catholics: shoot from the hip, then do lots of contortions when called on them.
farronwolf
New member
American Thinker - Bias and Credibility
QUESTIONABLE SOURCE A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no
mediabiasfactcheck.com
Just a few examples here.
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Stphlmna
Guest
There is much to take in. And as fathers of families it is our duty to be informed. In a world of commercialism, deceit , and treachery it is often confusing to know whom to turn to for the truth when things begin to implode around you. Our Lady of Fatima told the little children, “Don’t lose heart. I will never forsake you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God.” Look to Our Lady of Fatima, Akita, La Salette. You will begin to understand. Consecrate your self to Our Blessed Mother! Also know Our Lady of Fatima asked us to pray for poor sinners. You are all in our prayers.
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VonDerTann
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They’re a right wing site; I’ll agree there.
Problem is, of course, just having a slant left or right, is enough to find them valueless in the reviewer’s eyes. They’d find the Nation or Mother Jones as useless.
Lets circle the wagons. Your original post was that the US is 1/4 the worlds covid cases. That spun off into websites. I’ll have to respectfully come back to “china is vastly underreporting their deaths.” This is getting picked up by the traditional media, and other evidence is coming in: for example, six figures worth of China’s cel phones have recently gotten turned off in the Wuhan area, suggesting their owners are dead.
Problem is, of course, just having a slant left or right, is enough to find them valueless in the reviewer’s eyes. They’d find the Nation or Mother Jones as useless.
Lets circle the wagons. Your original post was that the US is 1/4 the worlds covid cases. That spun off into websites. I’ll have to respectfully come back to “china is vastly underreporting their deaths.” This is getting picked up by the traditional media, and other evidence is coming in: for example, six figures worth of China’s cel phones have recently gotten turned off in the Wuhan area, suggesting their owners are dead.
farronwolf
New member
That is quite the assumption that since phones are reported to be off, folks are dead.
Again, I don’t, nor does anyone know how many cases are in China or any other country for that matter, for certain.
Based on reporting, the US has seen a significant increase in the number of cases, exponentially. And we don’t know if our numbers are correct either because testing is very lacking here as well. But the point is that we acted extremely slow to this threat and the numbers are reflecting that.
Other countries did a much, much better job at their response to the disease.
www.statnews.com
Again, I don’t, nor does anyone know how many cases are in China or any other country for that matter, for certain.
Based on reporting, the US has seen a significant increase in the number of cases, exponentially. And we don’t know if our numbers are correct either because testing is very lacking here as well. But the point is that we acted extremely slow to this threat and the numbers are reflecting that.
Other countries did a much, much better job at their response to the disease.
Understanding what works: How some countries are beating back the coronavirus
Understanding what works: How some countries are beating back the #coronavirus.
www.statnews.com
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VonDerTann
Guest
China controls their media very tightly.
You are free to scoff at whatever sources I offer, but what it comes down to is this:
Do you believe the Chinese government’s accounts of what’s occurred, and it’s death rates? Or do you disbelieve them.
I would respectfully aver that all discerning informed investigators disbelieve them, based on their history of falsehoods; and the various pieces of evidence coming in - circumstantial, and eyewitness accounts - suggesting dishonesty as to the death toll.
I guess you’re free either disbelieve all those sources, or to do what most people do, which is basically just to assume China is honest without looking for more. The problem is, the body of “more” keeps getting larger and larger, and if you want to believe Red China you have to reject as unreliable more and more other sources. What I’ve seen you do is essentially reject every other source offered. Are you really so sure China is telling the truth about their death totals?
You are free to scoff at whatever sources I offer, but what it comes down to is this:
Do you believe the Chinese government’s accounts of what’s occurred, and it’s death rates? Or do you disbelieve them.
I would respectfully aver that all discerning informed investigators disbelieve them, based on their history of falsehoods; and the various pieces of evidence coming in - circumstantial, and eyewitness accounts - suggesting dishonesty as to the death toll.
I guess you’re free either disbelieve all those sources, or to do what most people do, which is basically just to assume China is honest without looking for more. The problem is, the body of “more” keeps getting larger and larger, and if you want to believe Red China you have to reject as unreliable more and more other sources. What I’ve seen you do is essentially reject every other source offered. Are you really so sure China is telling the truth about their death totals?
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puer.dei
Guest
farronwolf
New member
That was a good deflection. Just breezed right past the inaccuracies of the website you like.
Again, I said I don’t, nor does anyone know the actual numbers in China. Regardless of what the numbers in China are, we are dealing with numbers in this country as a result of slow or lack of response by federal gov. and people who ignored warnings from folks who know what they are talking about.
Can you point to a post where I said I believed China’s numbers, or where I have said everyone else’s numbers are wrong.
Again, I said I don’t, nor does anyone know the actual numbers in China. Regardless of what the numbers in China are, we are dealing with numbers in this country as a result of slow or lack of response by federal gov. and people who ignored warnings from folks who know what they are talking about.
Can you point to a post where I said I believed China’s numbers, or where I have said everyone else’s numbers are wrong.
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VonDerTann
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You said the US had a quarter of the worlds covid deaths. Since we can generally know how many Spain,
Italy, etc., had, you are is by implication stating china has had very few.
Italy, etc., had, you are is by implication stating china has had very few.
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