A Nope for Pope [NYT: Dowd]

[feargalmac]

I hope Dowd holds her breath waiting for a female Pope.

If we had a female pope we’d pray to Sophia in the four directions, while being encouraged to do the enneagram and reiki and any other holistic feel good claptrap.

 

[dmorgan]

Now, I do not like Ms. Dowd and find her article to be very flippand and uninteresting.

I wish the Church would abandon the archaic and unjustified distinction and allow itself a greater pool of talent from whom to pick our leaders. It is only hurting the institution by keeping half its membership out of the running for the leadership.

CSuliman this is the type of thinking from the Modernists that put the Church into this situation. We need true Chastity and a return to Tradition, not more modernist experiments that will destroy us just as it has destroyed the Anglican Church. My .02
Pax Vobiscum

 

[Image_of_God]

*Hi anode;

Do you feel that the current response is inadequate? Definitely the past response was…but how about now? Do you have a sense of authentic humility on the part of the Church? I do. The thing is, the horrors that happened over the decades, can never be taken back…it will be hard for anyone who has suffered like the victims have …for any words to ever mean anything, but forgiveness requires a lot of us, sometimes. Sometimes, when we can’t find it in our human strength to forgive, we must draw upon God’s strength and grace. *

I agree. I remember being angry with my mother for a day or two for some rather petty thing. I tried to forgive, but it was incredibly difficult. I could not overcome the anger, not until we talked. I look at Christ on the crucifix and hear him say the words “forgive them, for they know not what they do!”…I do not know how he did it. After so gross a mistreatment, I cannot conceive how the fountain of forgiveness proceeded from that most magnanimous heart. I conclude that forgiveness is essentially a divine activity. None can perform that most necessary act without the help of God’s grace. The abused need intense healing, which I hope they receive. The Church must be this fountain, by which the abused can drink from the waters of refreshment and restoration. This abuse reveals a Church whose members need a deep renewal in law of charity. Only then can the Church continue to shine like the lighthouse and safehaven for unfortunate humanity that I know it to be.

 

[wisdomseeker]

is there away of sending messages of encouragement to the holy father. to let him know that we stand behind him when so many bishops and priests have betrayed him.

the judas are all around us and they dont seem to go anywhere. it always amazes me when we see the suffers of the Church and the bishops and priests go around laughing like everything is a joke.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Now, I do not like Ms. Dowd and find her article to be very flippand and uninteresting.

However, I do not understand the strong feelings against having a woman pope. I do not buy Ms. Dowd’s point that a woman will be able to fix the church because of her gender or whatever benefits it provides. However, I equally reject the argument that being female disqualifies an individual from being a good religious leader.

The fact is that there are good leaders who are either men or women and there are bad leaders who are either men and women. Gender has very little to do with this. I wish the Church would abandon the archaic and unjustified distinction and allow itself a greater pool of talent from whom to pick our leaders. It is only hurting the institution by keeping half its membership out of the running for the leadership.

Using the example of the Anglican church and its female leader to make the argument that women cannot be leaders is absurd. By the same token I can point to Hitler and say that men should not be leaders. We have had great women leaders in our history (Thatcher, Hillary Clinton, Angela Merkel, Queen Elizabeth, etc).

i dont think this would go to well. i know people in my Parish that does not go for communion unless the priest is giving Communion. neither me.

apparently you dont know what the CC is. people has lost the sense of differenciation and distinction.

 

[anode]

Now, I do not like Ms. Dowd and find her article to be very flippand and uninteresting.

However, I do not understand the strong feelings against having a woman pope. I do not buy Ms. Dowd’s point that a woman will be able to fix the church because of her gender or whatever benefits it provides. However, I equally reject the argument that being female disqualifies an individual from being a good religious leader.

The fact is that there are good leaders who are either men or women and there are bad leaders who are either men and women. Gender has very little to do with this. I wish the Church would abandon the archaic and unjustified distinction and allow itself a greater pool of talent from whom to pick our leaders. It is only hurting the institution by keeping half its membership out of the running for the leadership.

Using the example of the Anglican church and its female leader to make the argument that women cannot be leaders is absurd. By the same token I can point to Hitler and say that men should not be leaders. We have had great women leaders in our history (Thatcher, Hillary Clinton, Angela Merkel, Queen Elizabeth, etc).

I agree with you, cs, but it’ll never happen. Many Protestant and most Anglican groups have women priests/pastors and to my unbiased eye, they appear to be doing a very good job–(even if you don’t like PB Schori). I also think that in many cases these women are more qualified than the men.

But, as they say, fuggedaboutit.

 

[unafraid]

Passionate, almost fanatical, righteous-indignation to a cause always raises the red flag, questioning the motive of those who portray themselves as morally outraged, yet who fail to declare themselves distincly as a group, class, or party of interest, instead they infiltrate a valid topic with deceptive intent. This is a Roman Catholic Forum, yet we see the same undeclared posters pounding away at a subject which is incendiary to all of us who belong to, and love, the Roman Catholic Church. Let me state my position clearly: If Roman Catholicism would become anathema throughout this world, and only the true believers were left to worship, hounded and hidden, my family would be among those who would risk all to remain faithful. Millions of others would do the same. Our faith is far stronger than the enemies perceive.

Posters on this site who control the flow of dialogue on the subject of clerical abuse, yet fail to declare themselves as being part of a Cause, a Sect, a Cult, a Movement, or a Tribe, should announce themselves plainly…even if it be a deception. I fear we are now being subjected to the malice of those who neither love Christ, nor His Church. Voyeurs, come to kick a downed foe.

Declare yourselves, all you who bask in the protection of anonymity. What is the source of your timidity? Cowardice? Declare youself as an enemy of Christ, then some of us might openly oppose you. Many of us who love Christ and his Church weep real tears reading this constant attack on our religion. However, I know there are many on this board (unbelievers) who laugh at the pain it causes to those who live the Faith.

It should be a rule that people on such a site, (Catholic), declare themselves as to the matter of their own faith. I want to know that it is not the vile subterfuge of the enemies of the Church who are the most “indignant”. A lie, a false representation, would be better than nothing. I just have a strong intuition that many on this site hardly have the welfare of the Church in their hearts. The vultures are hovering.

 

[Corki]

I agree with you, Whatever.

Why don’t we get back to discussing the most important subject in the Catholic news----psychological, physical and sexual abuse of minors by the Catholic clergy and religious, priests, brothers and nuns, over decades, and the inadequate response to all of this by the hierarchy.

Because that would be to take this thread off-topic. The topic at hand is Ms. Dowd’s recent column. There are several threads already on the actions of Church members with regard to abuse of minors.

 

[Corki]

Now, I do not like Ms. Dowd and find her article to be very flippand and uninteresting.

However, I do not understand the strong feelings against having a woman pope. I do not buy Ms. Dowd’s point that a woman will be able to fix the church because of her gender or whatever benefits it provides. However, I equally reject the argument that being female disqualifies an individual from being a good religious leader.

The fact is that there are good leaders who are either men or women and there are bad leaders who are either men and women. Gender has very little to do with this. I wish the Church would abandon the archaic and unjustified distinction and allow itself a greater pool of talent from whom to pick our leaders. It is only hurting the institution by keeping half its membership out of the running for the leadership.

Using the example of the Anglican church and its female leader to make the argument that women cannot be leaders is absurd. We have had great women leaders in our history (Thatcher, Hillary Clinton, Angela Merkel, Queen Elizabeth, etc).

Because it is not a matter of qualifications. It isn’t even a matter of good leadership skills (though that is helpful). The Pope must be ordainable. He is Bishop of Rome. Women are not ordainable women cannot be popes regardless of how well qualified they may be for a more secular leadership position.

 

[anode]

Because it is not a matter of qualifications. It isn’t even a matter of good leadership skills (though that is helpful). The Pope must be ordainable. He is Bishop of Rome. Women are not ordainable women cannot be popes regardless of how well qualified they may be for a more secular leadership position.

Criticizing a column by Maureen Dowd is setting up a straw man, er, ‘woman’ and then bravely and cleverly demolishing it. Congratulations on being so clever! She is an Op-Ed editorialist who always enjoys being outrageous.

 

[sidbrown]

From the Slimes: Yup, we need a Nope.
A nun who is pope.
The Catholic Church can never recover as long as its Holy Shepherd is seen as a black sheep in the ever-darkening sex abuse scandal.
Now we learn the sickening news that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, nicknamed “God’s Rottweiler” when he was the church’s enforcer on matters of faith and sin, ignored repeated warnings and looked away in the case of the Rev. Lawrence C. Murphy, a Wisconsin priest who molested as many as 200 deaf boys.
…
The nuns have historically cleaned up the messes of priests. And this is a historic mess. Benedict should go home to Bavaria. And the cardinals should send the white smoke up the chimney, proclaiming “Habemus Mama.”

And it continues…

Well, the problem has gone on for too long. And it looks extremely severe. Maybe it is time to reconsider married priests and even women priests.

 

[cyberwolf001]

How would a woman be any different from what we got? Does the author thing all the sex abuse will just magically stop the second the Nope is appointed?

 

[magnificatlady]

I had to go to confession after reading her article! I’m planning on going there again in the next few days so I’ll just say this:
The Soul of Maureen Dowd is so worthless that even Satan would ask for a REFUND!

A person can always tell when Holy Week is about to arrive; no need for a calendar, just pay attention to media reports!
God Bless Pope Benedict XVI

Besides anyone that advocates for women priests just does not get it, perhaps they were poorly catechized.

 

[Cinette]

From the Slimes: Yup, we need a Nope.
A nun who is pope.
The Catholic Church can never recover as long as its Holy Shepherd is seen as a black sheep in the ever-darkening sex abuse scandal.
Now we learn the sickening news that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, nicknamed “God’s Rottweiler” when he was the church’s enforcer on matters of faith and sin, ignored repeated warnings and looked away in the case of the Rev. Lawrence C. Murphy, a Wisconsin priest who molested as many as 200 deaf boys.
…
The nuns have historically cleaned up the messes of priests. And this is a historic mess. Benedict should go home to Bavaria. And the cardinals should send the white smoke up the chimney, proclaiming “Habemus Mama.”

And it continues…

I suggest you learn something about the Catholic Church - you obviously know very little. So before you make anymore outrageous statements go and learn.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Remain on the thread topic please.

 

[jonpd]

In the following article Fr. Raymond de Souza refutes the claims that the Holy Father intervened in the Fr. Murphy abuse case.

corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDkxYmUzMTQ1YWUyMzRkMzg4Y2RiN2UyOWIzNDVkNDM=

At the very least the sources for these stores is questionable.

Katyrn Jean Lopez has an interesting commentary on the leadership thing:

corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZGVmYzkyNmQ5MTNlN2EwMTE5Yzg2MjZhZmNiNGU4ZGE=

One quote at the nd which I like:

The real source of the [sexual abuse] problem is Catholics not being Catholic. It’s Catholics not imposing their beliefs on themselves and not applying fraternal correction where it is needed most. If you’re a Catholic and you’ve been listening to him, Benedict, in just about his every remark and release, has talked to you about what being Catholic means. And being Catholic is challenging to those on the political Right and the political Left, to every man and woman, including priests and prefects. As it should be.

 

[csuliman]

Because it is not a matter of qualifications. It isn’t even a matter of good leadership skills (though that is helpful). The Pope must be ordainable. He is Bishop of Rome. Women are not ordainable women cannot be popes regardless of how well qualified they may be for a more secular leadership position.

My argument extends to allowing women to be ordained as priests. There is no reason why men can be ordained but women cannot.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

From the Slimes: Yup, we need a Nope.
A nun who is pope.
The Catholic Church can never recover as long as its Holy Shepherd is seen as a black sheep in the ever-darkening sex abuse scandal.
Now we learn the sickening news that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, nicknamed “God’s Rottweiler” when he was the church’s enforcer on matters of faith and sin, ignored repeated warnings and looked away in the case of the Rev. Lawrence C. Murphy, a Wisconsin priest who molested as many as 200 deaf boys.
…
The nuns have historically cleaned up the messes of priests. And this is a historic mess. Benedict should go home to Bavaria. And the cardinals should send the white smoke up the chimney, proclaiming “Habemus Mama.”

And it continues…

Does this Dowd character actually claim to be Catholic? Her article is so full of mistakes and slander that its hard to believe it is associated with a major newspaper. If she’s Catholic, I sure hope her excommunication is forthcoming.

 

[Corki]

My argument extends to allowing women to be ordained as priests. There is no reason why men can be ordained but women cannot.

Remain on the thread topic please.

I the context of critiquing Ms. Dowd’s premise, there are many reasons why women cannot be ordained.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

 

[blazerdave]

Using the example of the Anglican church and its female leader to make the argument that women cannot be leaders is absurd. By the same token I can point to Hitler and say that men should not be leaders. We have had great women leaders in our history (Thatcher, Hillary Clinton, Angela Merkel, Queen Elizabeth, etc).

Ok I will respond to this once, and that’s all (in the interest of staying on topic). You are entitled to your opinion. But the fact is, under our current Presiding Bishop, our church is torn in 2, probably going to be kicked out of the AC, shrinking in almost all 50 states, laughed at across the world, and absolutely floundering theologically. Electing a woman as PB, or as Pope, solely on the basis of achieving a “first” that will make headlines, is not a wise course of action. If you don’t know what you’re getting, you often end up regretting it. I’m hardly “absurd” to think so. And please don’t use the tired “Hitler” example either when responding to my opinion.