A not-yet-locked Thread on Modesty

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Lucy_1 said:
What we should really be concerned about is chastity, not modesty.
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God didn’t give us a list of choices to pick from as we pleased. He revealed the Truth that leads to eternal life, and He gave light upon the way that leads to death.
Chastity AND modesty are two requirements, not either-or options.
 
goout said:
If men stopped lusting, this would not even be an issue.
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This comment made me laugh out loud.

That’s it! That’s the solution to the problem! 50% of the human race just have to stop struggling with a difficult sin. Problem solved, I can now go out naked tomorrow.
 
JMMJ said:
There are places one can live where burkas are what women wear. You know, if this sort of thing is a big issue for you, male or female.
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Jesus seeks souls to gather into eternal life in every nation and place, and wills the death of no one. Christians everywhere are called to bear witness to HIs Holy Truth.
 
So you agree that modesty is also an external virtue?

How might that manifest? What’re some practical tips for your daughters?
 
What does that have to do with living in a burka area if you have trouble with controlling your lust?
 
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fide said:
But I am afraid - literally afraid - that “the culture” has become a ready excuse for Catholic caving in - to quietly “fit in” - and go down with the Titanic.
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It is no such thing. When exercising virtues that pertain to the people around us we must consider the actual people around us. This is not an excuse for offloading our judgement (or worse, God’s revealed judgements) onto them, it is a responsibility to learn who they are and how our actions affect them.

The goal of modesty is to honor the body (and person it belongs to) as a wonderful and valuable thing. Covering it so that other people may not turn it into a shameful object of desire in their thoughts is a good thing. Covering it so that you yourself do not turn it into a shameful object of desire is a good thing. Covering it as a shameful object of desire is not a good thing.
 
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fide said:
God didn’t give us a list of choices to pick from as we pleased. He revealed the Truth that leads to eternal life, and He gave light upon the way that leads to death.
Chastity AND modesty are two requirements, not either-or options.
Click to expand...
My point is that modesty is ordered to chastity, not the other way around.
 
On that front, I’d agree.

If you ever do have daughters though I wish you’d love them enough to tell them their bodies are worth dressing modestly.

I was told to dress less modestly, growing up, and it made me feel not worth guarding.
 
Lucy_1 said:
My point is that modesty is ordered to chastity, not the other way around.
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I agree. But when the external violations against modesty are so loud all around us, the interior disposition (or lack of it) of chastity can seem secondary. In fact the Church ought to be teaching the moral virtues is a systematic and complete way, within the whole Faith of the Church, and she sleeps.
 
MNathaniel said:
If you ever do have daughters though I wish you’d love them enough to tell them their bodies are worth dressing modestly.

I was told to dress less modestly, growing up, and it made me feel not worth guarding.
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This is so important! Formation of the child in the family is so very important! God has set a sense of modesty in us, and it becomes manifest at a very early age. I once saw a young girl shamed - laughed at - by her parents and other relatives for not wanting to go out to the beach in the skimpy little “suit” they bought for her. Her natural modesty knew better than her elders, but they had their way, beginning to initiate her into this crass immodest culture. What a horrible thing.
 
Inquiry said:
The goal of modesty is to honor the body (and person it belongs to) as a wonderful and valuable thing. Covering it so that other people may not turn it into a shameful object of desire in their thoughts is a good thing. Covering it so that you yourself do not turn it into a shameful object of desire is a good thing. Covering it as a shameful object of desire is not a good thing
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Averting ones eyes so as to control ones owns thoughts is also a good thing.
 
Indeed, but this issue is not an either/or, as some seem to believe. Modesty matters, chastity matters, owning one’s own behaviour and sins and not blaming others matters and not leading others into temptation matters. 🙂
 
I work on the principle of treating all women as ladies, however they are dressed. Whether they are dressed like a stereotypical bordello madam or a nun. I don’t always succeed but I consider it something to aim for. I am not running people’s cupboards and what women wear is not under my control and I can think of girls I’ve known who were people well worth knowing who displayed acres of flesh and some who wore very modest clothing who were not pleasant to be around. Modesty is an internal as well as external virtue.
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Yes it’s too late now to try to influence women to dress more modestly. Once people gave moral authority to Cosmopolitan magazine (or the equivalent) we were doomed.
 
Jen95 said:
The difference is that a woman dressed like a streetwalker used to be treated a certain way, and now a woman dressed like a streetwalker wears that clothing to church, work, anywhere she darn well pleases.
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There has never been a truer statement on any thread on CAF.

Excuse me, I have to go check the fire extinguishers now, before the dumpster bursts into flames… 🧯 🧯 🧯 🔥
 
fide said:
I’m happy to see Lifesite has an opinion piece on it
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Based on your thread title, I can see that you’re clearly well versed in the modesty discussion on CAF and how it invariably comes to a standstill. What do new ideas do you think this thread contributes to the discussion?
 
In Genesis, Adam and Eve, realizing their nakedness, fashioned a few fig leaves to remedy their new found shame. However, the Lord made garments of skin to clothe them before banishing them from the Garden. A fair interpretation is that for fallen man, fig leaves just won’t do to cover the temptation.
 
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