A peaceful man that Muhammad was

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Therefore, Christianity is just as much tarred with hateful teachings as Islam.
RUBBISH and BILGE :mad:

I say the proof is in the pudding! Read some history. Really read it! Let’s have solid history, not political correctness. The fruits of Islamic Imperialism can and should be laid right at Muhammad’s feet.

(1) A mere 100 years after the death of the “Prophet” in 632 AD Arab Muslims had swept the Mid-East and North Africa. What is today the Arabian Peninsula, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Israel, Lebanon, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, and Morocco had all fallen by the sword of an Islamic blitzkrieg! If Muhammad is a man of peace, how did this happen a mere 100 years after his death? In Bernard Lewis’ words, “what went wrong”? (P.S.: the Dome of the Rock was erected in 692 AD on conquered, not native Arab Muslim soil.)

(2) In 732 AD the armies of an imperialist and conquering Islam were deep in western Europe! They were just outside a little French (YES, French) town by the name of Poitiers. This is barely 90 kilometers southwest of Paris! The armies of Isalm had overrun all of the Iberian peninsula (Spain and Portugal !!) and were poised to sweep all of western Europe. What stood before them, however, was Charles “The Hammer” Martel, the grandfather of Charlemagne the Great (it runs in the family). On the eve of the battle, Arab Islamic forces controlled an empire as large or larger than Rome at its height!! This was all accomplished less than 100 years after Muhammad died. THERE IS NOTHING LIKE THIS IN CHRISTIAN HISTORY, NOTHING!!! The point: how did Muhammad’s new religion of peace go so wrong, so badly, so soon, after he died? I fear, the answer is it didn’t go wrong, it went as planned. Muhammad would have been proud. Is there any doubt? Likewise, if something like this had occurred in Christian history, would Jesus have been proud? (For the historically challenged, Charles Martel won the Battle of Poitiers. The West was saved.)

(3) But, what about the crusades you say? Well, they didn’t get underway (1095 AD to be precise) until nearly 450 years after the conquests of Islam began. Islam lashed out at its neighbors first AND without provocation. In addition, at the time of the crusades, Islamic forces still controlled most of what is today southern Spain and Portugal. In addition, they were busy knocking at the door of the Byzantine Empire and the Balkans. Let’s not forget that Islam struck first and longest. Islamic forces occupied the Balkans, parts of southeastern Europe and all of Greece from about 1453 (fall of Constantinople) until the fall of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War! There is nothing in Christian history comparable to this. This spirit of Islam is due to the kind of man Muhammad was.

(4) A 100 years after the death of Jesus, Christians were still persecuted, and were to be persecuted for nearly 200 years or so in the Roman Empire. There simply are no Christian conquests comparable to those of Islam. The wars by and between Europe’s nation states and kingdoms simply are not comparable to what Islam has been doing since its inception.

(5) Christian violence has always been decried by other Christians. Today, when so-called “Christians” commit acts of violence in the name of God, it is condemned by many prominent Christian leaders everywhere, including the Pope. But, where is this today in Islam? Where are the Imams and Mullahs in the Mid-East who will condemn Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, al-Qaeda, etc.? Name one prominent Islamic leader in the Mid-East who is publicly doing this? And, don’t say they can’t because they don’t live in free societies. They don’t live in free societies because of the culture of Islam. Muhammad was not a man of peace.

The proof is in the pudding!
 
And why grace is so important: it is not based on what we deserve, but purely on God’s Love, which transcends justice, by fulfilling it & going beyond it; it’s not locked into the attitude of the atrocity-swappers, so it can go beyond the ethical framework on which that attitude relies, the attitude which stops at justice. "
Hi
I agree with golden words of your above post.
I am not used to wearing a hat; yet I would overjoyed exclaim; hats off to you.
We are ordinary human beings, faulty and sinful, we are no politicians or diplomats, we want Grace of God, Love of God and we beseach that. May God let us have his mercy and love and we live here and let others live here peacefully; no unnecessary conversions except with normal rational, reasonable and logical arguments.
Thanks
 
Yes, Greg. That’s why Jesus Christ said, “kill those who don’t believe in God or the last day, unless they are Jews in which case they have to pay the submission tax with humiliation.”
Invoking this commandment from Jesus Christ the Christians went and committed atrocities against non-believers.
Therefore, Christianity is just as much tarred with hateful teachings as Islam.
Hi
Thanks
 
Did not Jesus say to his disciples, “I have been ordered by God to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but the Christian God and that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Christian laws and then their reckoning will be done by God.”?

Did he not say this?

Did not Paul say this:

Our Lord , the Son of God, has ordered us to fight you till you worship God Alone or give tribute and our Lord has informed us that our God says:-- “Whoever amongst us is killed shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master.”

Did he not say this?
 
"Rodrigo Bivar:
Yes, Greg. That’s why Jesus Christ said, “kill those who don’t believe in God or the last day, unless they are Jews in which case they have to pay the submission tax with humiliation.”
Invoking this commandment from Jesus Christ the Christians went and committed atrocities against non-believers.
Therefore, Christianity is just as much tarred with hateful teachings as Islam.
Hi
Thanks
paarsurrey, you misunderstood Rodrigo. He is making fun of Islam… Jesus never said any of that… MUHAMMAD DID. Rodrigo just put the words ‘Jesus Christ’ and ‘Christians’ to make sarcastic contrast between that hate of violence spread by Muhammad vs the love and tollrance spread by Jesus. 🤷
 
Have you guys heard this teaching of Jesus Christ? It’s in a parable somewhere, I think.

Jesus said to his disciples, "take not non-Christians as friends, for they are only friends to each other. They wish that you convert out of Christianity and be like them. So take not non-Christians as friends, UNTIL THEY EMIGRATE in the way of the Christian God.

But if they should TURN AWAY from Christianity, seize and kill them wherever you find them.

Except if they should seek refuge in a country which has a peace treaty with Christians,

or if these apostates should RUN AWAY and promise not to attack the Christians. But if they stay then seize and kill them for they are APOSTATES.

Yes, that was how Jesus Christ commanded the Christians to kill and persecute apostates.

I see what you mean, Greg. The teachings of Jesus Christ are just as hateful as those of some other prophet.
Jesus did not say these things! They are not in the New Testament gospels.
 
Hi
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation mostly because of the mislead Mullah/clergy that serves the purpose of rulers have been given to understand that Islam is a religion of violence, converting others by sword and punishing those who leave Islam by killing them. This suited the rulers as also the clergy for keeping the public subjugated. But this has been the religion of the establishment that may be called as MullahIslam or MullahShariah; this has nothing to do with Islam/Quran/Muhammad. Under this thread I intend to uncover the yet hidden face of true Islam as I understand from Quran and the life of Muhammad, both are open books, no mystery. The true face of peaceful and human loving Muhammad and his religion Islam which is truly speaking moral and peaceful, is very close to the present day concepts as would be seen here.

The first forty years i.e. before Muhammad was appointed ProphetMessenger by GodAllahYHWH has been offered as a reasonable argument/challenge in Quran before Infidels-of-Mecca, and they could not deny its truthfulness.

Muhammad had a marvelous record of a peace loving person for 40+13+2=55 years, he joined in welfare activities if there was any in Mecca, he helped the needy and in distress, he stood for the human cause, he never harmed any person. His record in these 55 years is clean by any standards.
I will be presenting certain events of Muhammad from these first 55 years of his life.
Thanks
It is not the peaceful activities that concern us, paarsurrey, but the violent. It would be better for you to focus ont the post 55, where the Christians were killed.
 
How about this then?

Did Jesus not say this to his disciple?

Invite them to Christianity; if they respond to you, accept it from then and desist from fighting against them.
 
In simpler and more literate times there was no need for the use of emoticons to indicate the presence of sarcasm or irony! You just have to assume them in Rodrigo’s posts.
 
How about this then?

Did Jesus not say this to his disciple?

Invite them to Christianity; if they respond to you, accept it from then and desist from fighting against them.
You are being a very very bad boy… :tsktsk:

Though it does get the point across to all but poor paarsurrey. 🤷
 
Father forgive me for I have sinned…

But some people are just so easy to wind up.

Chau,
Rodrigo
 
Hi
Some Events of Muhammad’s Life Before He Was Chosen ProphetMessenger by GodAllahYHWH.
  1. It is said that the tribes living in Mecca and the
    territories around, tired of unending blood-feuds, resolved to
    found an association the purpose of which was to help victims
    of aggressive and unjust treatment. When the Holy Prophet
    heard of this, he gladly joined.
Please provide any evidence you can that Muhammad’s life was exemplary of a Holy Prophet.

What is the definition of a “Holy Prophet”? How does Muhammad fulfull this?
paarsurrey;2396198:
  1. Members of this association gave an undertaking in the following terms :
    They will help those who were oppressed and will restore
    them their rights, as long as the last drop of water remained in
    the sea. And if they do not do so, they will compensate the
    victims out of their own belongings (Raud al-Unuf by
    Suhaili).
Great to see that Hammas is loyal to their prophet!
  1. It seems that no other member of this association was ever
    called upon to discharge the undertaking solemnly entered into
    by members of this association.
“Unless the Lord build the house, then in vain do the builders labor”
One could see peaceful Muhammad loving and caring in service of humanity; no traits of violence there.
Thanks
there is no salvation for one who has once tasted of the heavenly gift,then falls away…
You might like to read full life account by accessing
alislam.org/books/
Introduction to the Study of Holy Quran (English)
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
from the Official Website of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
I think not. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community denies the prophet of God, and therefore, is not worth even a second of attention.
 
Though it does get the point across to all but poor paarsurrey. 🤷
Hi
Nobody has yet, in my opinion, tried to convert me to a Catholic.If somebody invites others to convert to one’s faith/relgion/denomination that is a very respectful gestures, at least I hold that.But this should be done with peace, reasons, rationality and arguments.
You are welcome.
Thanks
 
A similar challenge can be made against Catholic Christianity. Many Popes refused to believe that secular power could be independent of ecclesiastic power and acted like worldly rulers and generals.
Where does Catholic dogma and/or doctrine support those charges, like the Qur’an does for Islam?

I am currently reading another book about the history of the Catholic Church. The result of which confirms that even though the seat of St. Peter has been occupied by men with charges of illigetimacy, and/or some who made questionable decisions in Her history, the Church has remained true.

Catholicism started out as victims of real persecution for almost 300 years unlike the 10 years Muhammad experienced from a simple boycott. Muslims were not being killed en-masse before or after he fled to Medina.

No comparrison.
 
Hi
Please see the OP; I had shown my clear intention to submit before you a life sketch of Muhammad from his first 55 years, he spent mostly in Mecca. I would proceed gradually. I welcome all the comments of my friends and I value them, but on close observation, you would observe and agree with me that the same belong to the last eight years of his life; Muhammad died at the age of 63.

At which time he retained many mortal sins on his soul, any of which would easily extinguish the first 55 years.’
paarsurrey;2396606:
'Amr have stated that his wife said: I hear a voice which sounds like the voice of murder.
I guess he should have listened to her! Since murder is a violation of the commandmant of God, Muhammed is guilty before the throne.
We sense from you a very fine smell.
Methinks it is the odor of death.
I will respond when I finish the events of his first fifity five years. I am sorry, you shall have to wait till then with patience.
No need. Save yourself from labor.
This also gives me some consolation, that my friends here approve of Muhammad and agree that he was a peaceful, caring, loving man who seved humanity well all along these fity five years.
Thanks

In these fifty five years:
He killed none with his sword to convert to his religion.
He persecuted none for his religion.
He killed none for apostacy.
He killed none even otherwise.
What makes you think you have any friends here, paarsurrey? Are there those here that deny the divinity of the Christ, and therefore, can be your friend?

It does not matter what your Muhammed did in the first 55 years. he threw it away.
 
Hi
You don’t have to unnecessarily compromise on your morals. You don’t have to convert; remain a steadfast Catholic, we could develop a peaceful working relationship without converting, we are religious people we do not have any political agenda, we must have confidence in peace, that is the only requirement.
Thanks
I would go with you to the ends of the earth in the name of peace as long as you did not bring Muhammad with you. Peace does not follow Muhammad.
 
Catholicism started out as victims of real persecution for almost 300 years
Hi
The account of this persecution is given in Quran in a separate Chapter/Surah # 18 Al-Kahf (revealed in Mecca). But those were the TrueChristians (perahaps not the Catholics) who had to hide and live in caves in the period of their persecution ( maybe catacombs ), those people have been very much appreciated by Quran/Islam for their steadfastness and showing perseverence on their faith in difficult times. I don’t think any Christian denomination of these days fits on those accounts, yet GodAllahYHWH revealed those accounts on the heart of Muhammad, maybe to console Muslims who were also being persecuted at hands of the Meccan-Non-Believers. God knows of the Future as he knows of the Present and the Past, He is All-Knowing, then this forms part of our belief in the Unseen.
Thanks
 
Hi
The account of this persecution is given in Quran in a separate Chapter/Surah # 18 Al-Kahf (revealed in Mecca). But those were the TrueChristians (perahaps not the Catholics) …
Perhaps not. :banghead:

Paarsurrey,
as long as you are a peacefull person, God bless you.
 
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