A question about the covid vaccines

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BUT WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT IN THIS CASE THE GROUP IS WRONG? This is what I am trying to get you to talk about. It’s almost as though you are wanting to dismiss the entire question of problems in the Church that should be addressed in order strengthen the Church based a platitude about group think.
 
I am not referring to post- injection symptoms.

I am talking about the actual flu and the reason why is because influenza vaccine reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40%-60% , not 100%.
Also, Influenza viruses evolve and mutate allowing new strains to emerge, which people may not be immune to. So people are required to get a new vaccination year after year or they are not protected.
In addition, immunity to that strain itself is “time limited”.
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
You can’t imagine that because you don’t know how the vaccine works
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Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
There’s no COVID in the COVID vaccine
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There are 3 main types of Covid vaccines proposed:

-mRNA vaccines which contain material from the virus that causes COVID-19
-Protein subunit vaccines which include proteins of the virus instead of the whole virus
-Vector vaccines which cause a weaker version of a live virus (a different virus with genetic material from Covid inserted into it.

Looking at just mRNA vaccines-
the Influenza vaccines work for most part by injecting an inactivated germ into the persons. This mRNA Covid one differs by instead “giving instructions” for people’s own bodies to itself produce a protein that is found on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19. So essentially the immune system then makes antibodies to fight this “trick protein”. So in effect, from this process, people will be protected from the “real Covid” in the community providing that the Covid surface protein does not mutate. But if it does…then…?

This is not negativity against the vaccines, this is caution against a mindset of believing vaccines alone as the “holy grail” for Covid.

And it’s important to remember, it is not the virus that is killing people. It is people’s hyper inflammatory and cytokines storm response to it that is.
This is why the elderly, the obese, and generally anyone with with chronic illnesses, people already with risk factors to stroke (whether they know it or not) are having death or stroke from it whereas “healthy people” have mild symptoms.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(20)30272-6/

 
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If patients are clairvoyants, then the reality is that doctors practice through clairvoyance also (sometimes).
Iow, many times when people go to doctors with virus type symptoms, no tests are performed due to cost factors, or sadly even due to dismissive attitudes.

Patients are sometimes only given a throat swab test, which many busy doctors will views those results as definitive/confirmative.
However, nose- throat swab will only show positive results when there is a high viral load. False negatives are common.

A doctor may then simply diagnose a patient with either common cold or a flu with little objective evidence of what the patient truly had. Possibility of it being other viruses such as Rsv or Parainfluenza viruses often go neglected in adult patients in community settings.

https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/ajrccm.186.9.929
 
Valley,

You could be right. Sorry that this forum is ending, hope to run into you on somewhere else.

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Rozellelily said:
A doctor may then simply diagnose a patient with either common cold or a flu with little objective evidence of what the patient truly had. Possibility of it being other viruses such as Rsv or Parainfluenza viruses often go neglected in adult patients in community settings.
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Mostly, it’s not worth identifying the specific virus a patient has because the treatment is the same regardless.

Saying that someone with Covid isn’t dying from the virus itself is rather silly. It’s the virus causing the symptoms that kills them. It’s like saying that no HIV positive person dies from HIV…they died from the AIDS symptoms that were caused by HIV. The pneumococcal bacteria doesn’t kill the patient, the buildup of fluids to the point of suffocation is what kills them…it’s a ridiculous amount of nit pickiness not necessary. Covid killed them and HIV killed them and Pneumococcal bacteria killed them…they just do so through the response of their bodies to the pathogen.
 
The difference is that HIV affects everyone infected with it pretty much the same. Covid infection doesn’t. These important factors need to be closely looked at and it isn’t just nitpicking or splitting hair.

It may sound silly if it was being said just in “general conversation” to try to minimalise Covid but that is not where I am coming from.
I think it sounds silly to you because you probably have heard people before say things in the context of minimalising Covid effects.

But I am not saying it for these reasons, I am saying it in the context of that there needs to be as much focus also directed towards developing treatments to minimalising systemic inflammation and potential for sepsis, and not all the “eggs thrown into one basket” of a “miracle vaccine cure”.
Pattylt said:
Mostly, it’s not worth identifying the specific virus a patient has because the treatment is the same regardless.
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More like it’s not worth the money it costs to identify because for the most part there are no treatments. I.,e, no effective treatments for these things. In all honesty, a person could go to a fortune teller or a witch doctor to be told the same “treatment” to drink fluids, rest and “wait it out”. They do not need to pay a medical doctor for such “revolutionary advice”.

I have alpha 1 antitrypsin deficiency - a genetic lung disorder- and every winter I catch every virus that is going around in the air, I have had pneumonia and pleural effusion many many times, and I can tell you that doctors “useless non-advice” of “just wait things out” does nothing for people like me.

Modern medicine has made many progresses, but in a way is still very much backward in regards to not having effective treatments for certain things.
The truth is that viruses -in particular Covid- are smarter than “man” at this current time and should be much respected.
Doctors should not be arrogant or defensive, but should be receptive of the shortfalls of modern medicine. Only from a place of humility and receptiveness can progress come about.

Creating Covid vaccines can sit along side with treatments to prevent the cytokine storm response.
It doesn’t have to be just one or the other.
The target goal should be all deaths and strokes avoided (particularly the elderly) instead of just creating a situation of solely relying on vaccines, with necessary renewed vaccination each year as the Covid virus mutates, and then still only death rates being cut by a certain percentage etc…
 
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Rozellelily said:
It doesn’t have to be just one or the other.
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I certainly agree and the good news is that in less than a year, we have developed some very good treatments and are still looking into others. The research won’t stop when the vaccine has been distributed fully. There’s still ongoing research into cold viruses, flu, pneumonia and on. We’re the impatient ones getting frustrated that “cures” aren’t available yet. There’s probably no cure out there…but, there are vaccines that help in the battle.

I do hope you are staying as safe as possible. A1T is serious stuff. I wish you all the best at staying healthy and perhaps a viral free 2021 !
 
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