A Question for the Pro-Seclusion Members

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jochoa said:
Might you be able to share a deeper difference between these that might help me understand your perspective better. The way I see it is that deaths are caused either by accident or on purpose. Do you see a third option?
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So would old age be an accident or on purpose? Cancer? Heart attack? Premature birth?
 
Would you say then, that rather than being a strong supporter of state imposed sanctions, you are a strong supporter of majority rules?
 
Seems as though you are obedient to authority, rather than passionate about seclusion.
 
Seems to me the solutions to car accidents, abortions, and viruses are all prayer and prudence.

Are you proposing the pandemic shouldn’t be resolved with prayer and prudence?
 
27lw said:
I think because it’s temporary, and not “no Masses anymore, ever”, it’s not too much to ask of us. Although I know it is scary and painful for a lot of people and their livelihoods.
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Interesting, thanks for sharing!

How long of a time do you believe is too much to ask of us?
 
jochoa said:
Car accidents are caused by one person directly contacting another. And in the case of pile ups, the accident is spread from one person to another to another.
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Accidents can be solo experiences too.
jochoa said:
I wonder where and why strong supporters of ordinances striving to limit suffering and death draw the line. And my overall hope is to learn how to better counteract the fear of suffering and death, to help spread the freedom of living, suffering, and dying for Christ.
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jochoa unless you are now a medic choosing which patient out of 5 you are going to give the respirator too, which means 1 lives, 4 die from the virus, it is a little difficult to understand the enormity of this pandemic.

Which would you prefer to be. A medic is not dying for Christ but having to make this decision many times a day in some places.

This is how the virus kills, it solidifies the mucus in your lungs, you cant breathe without artificial help. That is why a respirator is needed
 
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maryjk said:
So would old age be an accident or on purpose? Cancer? Heart attack? Premature birth?
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For most standard cases, accidents, except for some instances of the premature births. Unfortunately, some people induce early births as a means to kill the child.
I don’t think it is possible for someone to purposefully cause someone to have a heart attack, cancer or old age, but then again, some of us humans use our minds and will wickedly.

What do you say?
 
OurLadyofSorrows said:
jochoa unless you are now a medic choosing which patient out of 5 you are going to give the respirator too, which means 1 lives, 4 die from the virus, it is a little difficult to understand the enormity of this pandemic.

Which would you prefer to be. A medic is not dying for Christ but having to make this decision many times a day in some places.
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In recognition that this scenario is unfortunately playing out, I would prefer the scenario to include the following: Of the 5 patients in need of a respirator, 4 are loving Christians willing to give their life that the 1 non-Christian may know the love of Christ, and then the non-Christian becomes Christian willing to lay down their life for others.
 
I think that this strictest form of social distancing will last 3-6 months, then will lighten up over time. I think it would be very helpful if they develop a test to see who has already had covid 19, and therefore is now immune.
 
No I would not say either of those things. In fully-functioning democracies I think people should follow their elected leaders while maintaining the right to question and the right to information and free speech. In semi-functional democracies, like the United States, I think people should do their best to support leaders who are filling their roles properly and attempt to work around those who are not. In semi-democracies like China I think people should have a reasonable level of trust in their governments in a crisis like this, especially in the long run. As positive results are seen, as they have been in China, I think support should increase. In non-democracies such as North Korea I think people should do what they can to stay safe and avoid pointless heroics. Majorities can only rule through democracy. A Democratic State, broadly speaking, is a majority.
 
jochoa, the RO for this virus is between 3 and 4, which means that one person who is shedding the virus can infect four people. Each one of them can infect four people. But then you know this already don’t you. I hope that you practice social distancing. Everyone needs to dig their head out of the ground and realize that as always, their actions bring consequences with them.

Those who don’t care about their own consequences should at least think about the ones they give to others. I don’t think that is too much to ask.


pax
 
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jochoa said:
I wonder where and why strong supporters of ordinances striving to limit suffering and death draw the line.
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The point of social distancing is to flatten the curve of the COVID infection rate to try to keep it to a rate that hospitals can handle without being overwhelmed and thus having people go without care because there are simply too many cases of severe COVID at once. It is not a guarantee that we won’t end up having the same or close to the same number of cases of COVID overall, but at worst they will hopefully be spread more in time so the health care system can cope. At best, we can also prevent some cases.

We currently do not have the same problem of overwhelming the health care system from car accidents or abortions.

I do not intend to refrain from my normal use of a car to lower the accident rate. Car travel is a necessity of my work and life at this point. I take reasonable precautions such as trying to drive safely, staying off the road when it’s icy, and not driving drunk to lower the accident rate.

I have no idea how me socially distancing myself is going to have any effect on sexually active people who seek abortions, particularly since (a) I’m not sexually active for a long time and not planning to be in the future and (b) even in the extremely unlikely event I was sexually active and conceived, I would never have an abortion.

Sorry, but your entire post/ premise is simply not making much sense to me at all, even with your explanation.
 
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27lw said:
I think it would be very helpful if they develop a test to see who has already had covid 19, and therefore is now immune.
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Yes, we need to have a test that
  • can be easily obtained by most if not all people without needing arduous processes or recommendations to get one, and without limitations on who gets one except reasonable limits (like if you had one in the last two weeks you can’t have another)
  • provides results quickly instead of having to wait for days
  • can be taken by someone who is asymptomatic
I have no idea how they are getting any good data when I have one friend who was diagnosed with pneumonia weeks ago, couldn’t get a COVID test even though his doc was pushing for it, finally got it and then is having to wait days for his result, and I have another friend who’s a health care worker and lives with three of her family members and showed all the signs of COVID and they simply sent her home to self-isolate. I don’t know if she ever got a test and her family members who are also isolating with her definitely didn’t get them. There are probably boat loads of people who may have this disease who are not being tested.

And we also need to know more about who is vulnerable to complications from the virus aside from those who are already in poor health or elderly. It seems like a lot of younger people are also getting severely ill or dying, so I’m not buying all this “you get sicker if you’re over a certain age” business, especially when I’m also reading about people over age 50 or 60 having mild cases. There’s something else going on here, some folks may be genetically vulnerable which would also help explain why this virus seems to be killing huge numbers in Italy despite the lockdown, meanwhile Germany is not having anything close to the same problem.

And finally, we need to know if people who have had it once can get it again and if they are truly immune and if they continue to be carriers.

As it stands, I have no idea if I’m somehow infected with this already and asymptomatic, or what. Or even if I already had a case of it before it was on the US radar screen. I had an illness in January where I coughed and wheezed for several days, it did not act like my normal colds. I didn’t go to the doctor as I figured it was just a cold and I recovered at home. Now I will never know what that was.
 
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An aside: china can hardly be called a “semi-democracy;” it is a communist country through and through that suppresses religion; the press; and individual rights. Having good results with covid? China’s the source of the virus! And why would you trust anything - like death rates - their godless government says?

The US is a representative republic, strictly speaking, and a very efficient one at that.

But I digress.
 
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The op is a little vague but I assume it’s asking what level of government sanctioned impositions on our personal freedom would we accept to lower the death rate in, for example, road accidents.

A lot more I would suggest.
 
Eh I don’t know. I usually favor more freedoms, not less, and IMHO forcing people into quarantine is like an absolute last resort in response to a once in a lifetime cataclysm.
 
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