A Question for the Pro-Seclusion Members

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will you also find yourself as a strong supporter of these ordinances for other factors that have the same, if not higher, death rates, such as car accidents, sexually-active people which seek abortions, etc?
Depends. Does the incident of a car accident infect others and cause them to die by car accident? Do sexually active people put others at mortal risk merely by coming into contact with them?

You’re misconstruing the danger here and setting up a straw man argument.
 
Illness from viruses can be solo experiences too.
You would agree that is not the case with this pandemic. Its about a virus spreading itself through human to human contact. A cat in Belgium also caught this illness from its owner
 
Eh I don’t know. I usually favor more freedoms, not less, and IMHO forcing people into quarantine is like an absolute last resort in response to a once in a lifetime cataclysm.
I think we might all personally be surprised as to what we’d be prepared to accept. Notwithstanding that we have far less freedom than we appreciate.
 
In recognition that this scenario is unfortunately playing out, I would prefer the scenario to include the following: Of the 5 patients in need of a respirator, 4 are loving Christians willing to give their life that the 1 non-Christian may know the love of Christ, and then the non-Christian becomes Christian willing to lay down their life for others.
But in this scenario, currently being played out in most countries, you are the doctor forced to choose who to give the respirator too. Now if we all stay home, we ease that pressure by not catching or spreading the virus.

The patient , loving christian or not, has no say in the choice. The doctor, if he or she survives this pandemic, is going to have to live with these choices for the rest of their lives
 
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A cat in Belgium also caught this illness from its owner
I’m extremely dubious about that. If cats and dogs could catch this, we would be seeing thousands of infected animals at this point, and animal shelters and emergency vets would be reporting a lot of sick animals. Instead we’ve had reports of one cat and one dog. There are also many feline illnesses that could have caused that cat’s symptoms.
 
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Recall however that this was an animal virus to begin with and it jumped to humans. I thus find the report credible in part since the virus came from animals in the first place.
 
I was too, its been verified by veterinarians.


A domestic cat in Belgium has been infected with COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus that’s spreading across the globe, the government’s FPS Public Health, Food Chain Safety and Environment announced March 27, according to news reports.

This is the first human-to-cat transmission of the novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2). About a week after its owner got sick with COVID-19, after returning from a trip to Northern Italy, the cat developed coronavirus symptoms: diarrhea, vomiting and respiratory issues, Steven Van Gucht, virologist and federal spokesperson for the coronavirus epidemic in Belgium, told Live Science.

The owner sent samples of vomit and feces to Dr. Daniel Desmecht’s lab at the Faculty of Veterinary Medicine of Liège. Genetic tests showed high levels of SARS-CoV-2 in those samples, he said. “The cat recovered after 9 days,” Van Gucht said.

My cat is also in lockdown. Not that he cares. He has stockpiled tins of tuna.
 
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benedictinehopeful:
Those other things you mentioned are necessary evils, such as car accidents occurring because we use cars to get around, or are the result of evil behavior that happens due to human beings, in the example of sexual immorality and abortion. With seclusion, we reduce the rate of death from this disease by making sure that hospitals don’t fill up. If me staying home more often would reduce the rate of abortions, there would be a good argument for it, however it doesn’t. These two scenarios (Coronavirus seclusion and staying home ordinarily) just aren’t equivalent is the main point I’m making.
The logic applies equally:
COVID deaths occur because we are social beings, and may also have origins from malicious behavior of human beings.

Us staying out of automobiles would reduce the rate of death from car accidents by making sure that roads don’t fill up.

Having sexually-active persons, who seek abortions, remain socially distant from one another would reduce the rate of abortions.

Might you be able to share a deeper difference between these that might help me understand your perspective better. The way I see it is that deaths are caused either by accident or on purpose. Do you see a third option?
Corona virus is more akin to terrorists or a mass shooter with unlimited ammo. Without swift decisive action, the country may well be a ghost town. Did you not agree with the measures the goverment took after 9/11 ie. grounding planes, closing boarders etc. What about when a shooter is on the loose in a shopping center? Is going into lockdown until the aggressor is contained not the right thing to do?
 
I’ll believe it when I start seeing either significant cases in cats/ dogs, or significant infection from cats and dogs to humans.
All the animal shelters I know of are open and operating. Nobody is reporting COVID either in the animals or in the people working there, who’d presumably be getting exposed if the animals were carrying the virus.

Given the errors we’ve seen in the tests used on humans, and the shoddy state of a lot of veterinary medicine in general (Seen this first hand due to having many many different animals in my life), I’m not going to believe an isolated testing story here or there.

As for my cats, they live indoors on “stay at home order” 24/7 365 days a year, so the only possible way they could catch anything would be from me or from the vet (who has closed up shop except for emergencies so they’re not seeing the vet either till this blows over).

Edited to add, here is a longer and much more comprehensive FAQ on COVID and pets from another veterinary, which makes a lot of good points.

https://www.oregonvma.org/care-health/zoonotic-diseases/coronavirus-faq

Also the US CDC states:
We do not have evidence that companion animals, including pets, can spread COVID-19.
 
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I don’t know if there’s enough info.
People may not see covid in pets because no ones really looking, or because they can’t really recognize it.
 
I refuse to bathe my pets in bleach .😳
We spray everything with bleach already…
They look very well in their pale brown, and it is kind of hard to imagine them brown and white Dalmatians! 😬
But if we have to one day…all right but not bleach please…if possible.
 
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I saw something on the news the other night where the news actually had to advise people not to wash their fresh produce in bleach before eating it (or in hand sanitizer with alcohol, either).

I have to admit I was thinking, “Just how stupid can people be?”
 
We know it came from a seafood market with lots of different types of other animals… we don’t know whether they were just being handled or whether they were being sampled, or something else. It’s not all that clear how this infection transmitted to humans.

Just to clarify, I don’t believe that domestic pets are a threat… one anecdotal story isn’t enough to influence.

Speaking about seclusion, this coronavirus is highly infectious and without a cure… it’s killing people and it seems now that it’s pretty indiscriminate, too… there are younger people without pre-existing conditions dying from it, besides the elderly and those in poor health. It’s nothing to do with car accidents etc. You can’t really imagine that the worlds governments would jeopardise their economies on anything less, surely.
 
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It is not an anecdotal story, it is verified by animal health medical authorities. It is not a reason to dump pers or bleach them. As someone said, there are not enough human tests, noone is going to use testing at this point to test animals. This could also help find a cure or vaccine though, so it is a good area for research.
We now have evidence based on this case that this virus can be spread between mammal species. Isnt it a zoonotic virus.
We are in unchartered territory with this pandemic and all information is good.

I am pretty confident in scientific results Belgium uncovers.They do make good chocolate and good beer after all 🦠🧼
 
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An aside: china can hardly be called a “semi-democracy;” it is a communist country through and through that suppresses religion; the press; and individual rights. Having good results with covid? China’s the source of the virus! And why would you trust anything - like death rates - their godless government says?

The US is a representative republic, strictly speaking, and a very efficient one at that.

But I digress.
China has many democratic processes which vary in their effectiveness and consistency. Representative democracy is only one form of democracy. In general I support it but I do not say all other systems are undemocratic in their entirety. I am sure the US democracy is efficient at some things, but in other it is not. For example, it has elected a president with far fewer votes than his main opponent and its representative bodies are constrained by a constitution leading to rule by unelected courts. It is entirely possible, for example, that in the present situation one of the myriad of federal courts would decide that an emergency measure was unconstitutional. That may be desirable for some reasons but it is certainly not helpful in stopping the spread of viruses.
 
I’m guessing the OP doesn’t know what happened in Italy and Spain…
 
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My vets havee just issued a statement over facebook about this cat with Covid19.
Apparently it has gone from doesnt happen to extremely rare. They listed symptoms to watch out for. There have been three cases. 2 were in HK and this one in Belgium.

I would post their statement but it would probably be going off topic and not fair on the OP
 
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The fact that Trump won with “fewer votes” doesn’t make the US semi-functioning, far from it: the founders of ge USA instituted the electoral college to prevent the “tyranny of the majority.” The courts; the executive branch; and the legislature all check and balance one another. It’s a lot more perfect than it gets credit for; again, it’s far from
“Semi-functioning.”

You can try calling China whatever you want - it’s a communist country, and neither you nor I can rely on anything they say. Accept China’s word on anything at your own risk.
 
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