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Auntie_M
Guest
I am under the impression when we say “pontiff” we mean the Pope. Am I right or is that a referal to all priest?
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J
JReducation
Guest
Pontiff is only the Pope.
Priesthood includes: Deacons, presbyters and bishops.
Though in modern times the word priesthood is used most often for presbyters and the term Holy Orders is used for all three.
Of course the Pontiff is a bishop. There is no higher rank in the priesthood than a bishop. This is why we say that a bishop has the fullness of the priesthood.
Hope this helps.
JR
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Auntie_M
Guest
Thank you JR
I thought I was right in thinking that the “Pontiff” is the Pope. The reason I asked is this website I was reading referring to the “Pontiff was H.E. Bishop Richard Williamson” …
“The Regina Coeli Report” with the address on Tracy Avenue in Kansas City, Mo. (the address of headquarters of SSPX)
I am afraid they have gone overboard now. They have their own Pope? Dear Lord have mercy…
www.sspx.org/RCRpdfs/2001_rcrs/july_2001_rcr.pdf
I thought I was right in thinking that the “Pontiff” is the Pope. The reason I asked is this website I was reading referring to the “Pontiff was H.E. Bishop Richard Williamson” …
“The Regina Coeli Report” with the address on Tracy Avenue in Kansas City, Mo. (the address of headquarters of SSPX)
I am afraid they have gone overboard now. They have their own Pope? Dear Lord have mercy…
www.sspx.org/RCRpdfs/2001_rcrs/july_2001_rcr.pdf
C
consumedconvert
Guest
Actually, I believe the word “Pontiff” may also refer to a bishop,. Correct me if I’m wrong, but a high mass celebrated by a bishop is called a “Pontifical High Mass.”
No, SSPX doesn’t have its own pope.
A
Auntie_M
Guest
Oh, whew, good
J
JReducation
Guest
I never heard that. I hope they haven’t done something that silly. That would be their death sentence.
Even the Orthodox never elected a pope. They have an official title for each of the patriarchs, “His Holiness”, but not Pontiff. They recognize the Bishop of Rome as the only Pontiff and the successor of Peter. The diffeence is that they have problems with infallibility, not with the Pontificate or the Petrine succession.
I hope they have not made such a mistake.
JR
J
JReducation
Guest
There is a difference between the word pontifical and pontiff.
Pontifical is anything that has the approval of the pontiff. A pontifical mass or a pontifical religious order has been approved by the Pontiff and only the Pontiff can withdraw the approval and support.
The only bishop who is The Pontiff is the bishop of Rome.
Hope this helps.
JR
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catharina
Guest
As I’ve already said, a Ponitical Mass offered by a bishop is offered by a BISHOP, not by a stand-in pontiff. Also, I tend to appreciate the accuracy of JR’s posts, for example:
"Pontiff is only the Pope.
Priesthood includes: Deacons, presbyters and bishops.
Though in modern times the word priesthood is used most often for presbyters and the term Holy Orders is used for all three.
Of course the Pontiff is a bishop. There is no higher rank in the priesthood than a bishop. This is why we say that a bishop has the fullness of the priesthood.
Hope this helps.
JR "
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consumedconvert
Guest
What is the literal translation of “Pontiff”, by the way?There is a difference between the word pontifical and pontiff.
Pontifical is anything that has the approval of the pontiff. A pontifical mass or a pontifical religious order has been approved by the Pontiff and only the Pontiff can withdraw the approval and support.
The only bishop who is The Pontiff is the bishop of Rome.
Hope this helps.
JR
A
Auntie_M
Guest
Let me post that website again, it seems some or refusing to read or understand it…
www.sspx.org/rcrpdfs/2001_rcrs/july_2001_rcr.pdf
and just in case you still don’t read it…
quote “The Pontiff was H.E. Bishop Richard Williamson. The place was HOLY REDEEMER church in Wake Forest, 25 miles outside of Raleigh. The day was Pentecost Sunday. The conclusion was a Te Deum of thanksgiving that God had enabled a real, traditional church to be made out of a metal shell, a former warehouse building…”
the sspx sponsored “Regina Coeli Report” July 2001
Now what does this say or mean???
www.sspx.org/rcrpdfs/2001_rcrs/july_2001_rcr.pdf
and just in case you still don’t read it…
quote “The Pontiff was H.E. Bishop Richard Williamson. The place was HOLY REDEEMER church in Wake Forest, 25 miles outside of Raleigh. The day was Pentecost Sunday. The conclusion was a Te Deum of thanksgiving that God had enabled a real, traditional church to be made out of a metal shell, a former warehouse building…”
the sspx sponsored “Regina Coeli Report” July 2001
Now what does this say or mean???
C
catharina
Guest
Oh no! You made me read it - and it’s worse than I could imagine.Let me post that website again, it seems some or refusing to read or understand it…
www.sspx.org/rcrpdfs/2001_rcrs/july_2001_rcr.pdf
and just in case you still don’t read it…
quote “The Pontiff was H.E. Bishop Richard Williamson. The place was HOLY REDEEMER church in Wake Forest, 25 miles outside of Raleigh. The day was Pentecost Sunday. The conclusion was a Te Deum of thanksgiving that God had enabled a real, traditional church to be made out of a metal shell, a former warehouse building…”
the sspx sponsored “Regina Coeli Report” July 2001
Now what does this say or mean???
sspx declaring R. Williamson to be Pope. BIG yucky.
(After SEVEN years, still no retraction?)
P
palmas85
Guest
The word Pontiff does not mean exclusively the Pope. It means any high ranking ecclestical member and a bishop would qualify. Incidentally just in case any one doesn’t know the Pope is a Bishop, the Bishop of Rome.
The SSPX was not declaring the presiding bishop to be the Pope.
L
Like
Guest
C
catharina
Guest
Again I happily quote JR who tends to be accurate in the extreme:
"Pontiff is only the Pope.
Priesthood includes: Deacons, presbyters and bishops.
Though in modern times the word priesthood is used most often for presbyters and the term Holy Orders is used for all three.
Of course the Pontiff is a bishop. There is no higher rank in the priesthood than a bishop. This is why we say that a bishop has the fullness of the priesthood.
Hope this helps. JR "
I tend to believe that everyone in this forum knows that the Pope is the Bishop of Rome. Everyone should also know that a presiding bishop is called A PRESIDING BISHOP.
If the sspx was not investing R. Williamson as its Pope, good.
L
Like
Guest
palmas85 is correct in his definition.
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bishop
Main Entry:
bish·op Listen to the pronunciation of bishop
Pronunciation:
\ˈbi-shəp\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English bisshop, from Old English bisceop, from Late Latin episcopus, from Greek episkopos, literally, overseer, from epi- + skeptesthai to look — more at spy
Date:
before 12th century
1: one having spiritual or ecclesiastical supervision: as a: an Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, or Roman Catholic clergyman ranking above a priest, having authority to ordain and confirm, and typically governing a diocese b: any of various Protestant clerical officials who superintend other clergy c: a Mormon high priest presiding over a ward or over all other bishops and over the Aaronic priesthood.
L
Like
Guest
Sorry, meant to post this link 1st.
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pontiff
pontiff
One entry found.
pontiff
Main Entry:
pon·tiff Listen to the pronunciation of pontiff
Pronunciation:
\ˈpän-təf\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French pontif, from Latin pontific-, pontifex
Date:
1626
1: pontifex2: bishop; specifically often capitalized : pope 1
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catharina
Guest
I don’t intend to confuse anybody. The meaning I’m referencing is within the Catechism. (Secular definitions can be quite different.) There appear to be no references to any other pontiff, only to the Roman Pontiff, the Pope.
It begins with this:
SUPREMACY OF THE POPE
882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, “is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.” “For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.”
891 The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful – who confirms his brethren in the faith – he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. … The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council. … This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.
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catharina
Guest
Like, (Lee K) aka Rich,
here’s a funny one for you and I do remember you’re a devout Catholic.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
“pope’s nose” (pōps)
n. Informal
The tail of a cooked fowl. (Also called parson’s nose.)
There are secular definitions
and then there there are Church defintions.
Not all definitions are equal.
here’s a funny one for you and I do remember you’re a devout Catholic.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
“pope’s nose” (pōps)
n. Informal
The tail of a cooked fowl. (Also called parson’s nose.)
There are secular definitions
and then there there are Church defintions.
Not all definitions are equal.
J
JReducation
Guest
In the Catholic Church only the Pope has the title Pontiff.
He is the Servant of the Servants of God, the Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church, the Bishop of Rome, the Patriarch of the East and the Emperor of the Vatican City State.
No bishop may use the title Pontiff. This is reserved only for the Pope. Pontiff means the ruler. There is no other ruler in the Catholic Church but the Pope.
JR
L
Like
Guest
Hi Catharina, Sorry, but I honestly don’t know what you are talking about here? I went back and checked my 2 links & could not find anything to do with what you posted above?
I do remember being taught that the term “Pontiff” has been used in the Catholic Church to apply to any Bishop preforming certain Rites. I will see what I can find, in the mean time please accept my apology, I had no intention of offending or misleading anyone!
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