A rant in defense of the Novus Ordo

[JReducation]

What about another approach?

What about just accepting the fact that this happens in some families at that there is something dysfunctional here?

That puts no one on the spot

I don’t believe that people in the same Church should feel that they are at war with each other. The fact that one person appreciates the EF and another appreciates the OF is not just cause for antagonism.

They are two forms of the same rite and both have a sanctity of their own.

This has nothing to do with SSPX. The EF and OF have a sanctity because they are part of the Church’s liturgical life.

Catholics who worship in the EF, need not feel an obligation toward the SSPX. Catholics who worship in the OF need not feel a need to attack the EF. The SSPX stands on it own with their own issues to resolve.

I would keep them separate, EF and OF are one thing. The issues of the SSPX are another.

This seems more logical to me than to constantly associate the EF with SSPX.

I know many Catholics who love the EF and are not in the least attracted to SSPX. They don’t have the issues with the Catholic Church that the SSPX has.

Just a suggestion.

JR

 

[JReducation]

Speaking of OF, at the end of our mass today, the priest read a letter from his superior on the Eucharist. It was beautiful. I can’t quote the entire thing, even if I could remember it all. But there were some words that really struck home.

He told his sons and the parishioners through them that the Eucharist was a reciprocal relationship in which Christ remains incarnate among us and draws us into the mystery of his incarnation in a very real and physical manner.

He also reminded all of the importance of proper reverence toward the Eucharist.

He reminded the laity that we must always approach the Eucharist with purpose. The Eucharist is not to be taken lightly, like one who goes to the fridge to get a snack. But he recommended that a period of contemplative prayer should precede every approach to the Eucharist in communion.

He concluded by reminding us that the Eucharist is not only available to us in communion, but is also available for adoration and that such adoration is an act of charity and at the root of every form of holiness.

He closed by reminding us how St. Francis of Assisi and St. Clare of Assisi found their Lord and Master through a life of perpetual adoration. This life is not just for them, but for all. It was not that St. Francis or St. Clare were holier than others, but they were open to a grace that God gives to us all. The grace of love for Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

It was very moving. I wanted to share it with all of you. I’m paraphrasing it, because it was longer. Unfortunately, they had not copies for the laity.

JR

 

[Our_Refuge]

MY MY, Dies Irae
You really seem to know everything. Tell me, where did you get all this superb knowlege.

And you being a convert, wow, you really have gotten the faith down pat, don’t you. When was it that you converted? With all the knowledge you have, it must have been a very long time.

Where did all this knowledge come from, I’d like to check into that school?

I agree with everything that is in** BOLD**, Auntie M, thanks

 

[catharina]

Speaking of OF, at the end of our mass today, the priest read a letter from his superior on the Eucharist. It was beautiful. I can’t quote the entire thing, even if I could remember it all. But there were some words that really struck home.

He told his sons and the parishioners through them that the Eucharist was a reciprocal relationship in which Christ remains incarnate among us and draws us into the mystery of his incarnation in a very real and physical manner.

He also reminded all of the importance of proper reverence toward the Eucharist.

He reminded the laity that we must always approach the Eucharist with purpose. The Eucharist is not to be taken lightly, like one who goes to the fridge to get a snack. But he recommended that a period of contemplative prayer should precede every approach to the Eucharist in communion.

He concluded by reminding us that the Eucharist is not only available to us in communion, but is also available for adoration and that such adoration is an act of charity and at the root of every form of holiness.

He closed by reminding us how St. Francis of Assisi and St. Clare of Assisi found their Lord and Master through a life of perpetual adoration. This life is not just for them, but for all. It was not that St. Francis or St. Clare were holier than others, but they were open to a grace that God gives to us all. The grace of love for Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

It was very moving. I wanted to share it with all of you. I’m paraphrasing it, because it was longer. Unfortunately, they had not copies for the laity.

JR

Beautiful, JR, and thanks.
I’ve saved the post on my PC.

 

[Our_Refuge]

I am so sorry that you refuse to hear the truth.

This IS NOT RHETORIC,SECOND HAND HORROR STORIES, RUMORS, OR INUENDOES.

I am quite offended that you just called me a liar

]. I happen to know these people, dear friends of mine, whose daughter got involved with the SSPX and this is REALLY happening.

Now, if YOU want to bury your head in the sand, please don’t get bit by any crabs…
Auntie M how can you possibly extract from the posting of
Dies Irae the word “liar”??? that is not even implied in his/her statement. That is so wrong.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Speaking of OF, at the end of our mass today, the priest read a letter from his superior on the Eucharist. It was beautiful. I can’t quote the entire thing, even if I could remember it all. But there were some words that really struck home.

He told his sons and the parishioners through them that the Eucharist was a reciprocal relationship in which Christ remains incarnate among us and draws us into the mystery of his incarnation in a very real and physical manner.

He also reminded all of the importance of proper reverence toward the Eucharist.

He reminded the laity that we must always approach the Eucharist with purpose. The Eucharist is not to be taken lightly, like one who goes to the fridge to get a snack. But he recommended that a period of contemplative prayer should precede every approach to the Eucharist in communion.

He concluded by reminding us that the Eucharist is not only available to us in communion, but is also available for adoration and that such adoration is an act of charity and at the root of every form of holiness.

He closed by reminding us how St. Francis of Assisi and St. Clare of Assisi found their Lord and Master through a life of perpetual adoration. This life is not just for them, but for all. It was not that St. Francis or St. Clare were holier than others, but they were open to a grace that God gives to us all. The grace of love for Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

It was very moving. I wanted to share it with all of you. I’m paraphrasing it, because it was longer. Unfortunately, they had not copies for the laity.

JR

I’m starting to understand your love for the Franciscan celebration of the Mass.

We had an equally beautiful homily on the Eucharist and how we should approach the reception of Christ, both in our disposition and our spiritual state. There wasn’t a person there who could have walked out not understanding the teaching of the Real Presence and the honor we should feel as Catholics to be able to participate in the celebration of the Mass each week.

I was very moved by it today. And I’m liking my new Franciscan parish.

 

[consumedconvert]

I’m starting to understand your love for the Franciscan celebration of the Mass.

We had an equally beautiful homily on the Eucharist and how we should approach the reception of Christ, both in our disposition and our spiritual state. There wasn’t a person there who could have walked out not understanding the teaching of the Real Presence and the honor we should feel as Catholics to be able to participate in the celebration of the Mass each week.

I was very moved by it today. And I’m liking my new Franciscan parish.

Great posts, you two. The priest of the parish we visited today also gave a beautiful homily on the reality of Christ in the Eucharist. He spoke on how Mother Theresa directed that in all of the communities of the Missionaries of Charity there was to be a sign in the sacristy that read “Priest of God, Celebrate this Mass as if it were your first Mass, your last Mass, and your only Mass.” He then told us to receive Christ in a like manner.

 

[JReducation]

Great posts, you two. The priest of the parish we visited today also gave a beautiful homily on the reality of Christ in the Eucharist. He spoke on how Mother Theresa directed that in all of the communities of the Missionaries of Charity there was to be a sign in the sacristy that read “Priest of God, Celebrate this Mass as if it were your first Mass, your last Mass, and your only Mass.” He then told us to receive Christ in a like manner.

When I was in Washington I saw that sign at a Missionary of Charity Home for AIDS victims. I loved it. Thanks for reminding me.

Jeanette and I share a common bond through the Capuchin-Franciscan Friars. They have a great tradition of Eucharistic devotion and it’s really inspiring that they preserve the reverence for the Eucharist during mass and for devotion to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.

Obviously, they are not the only ones who have this devotion. But the way they communicate it and share it with people is contagious.

If we look at the Association of Eternal Word Missionary Friars, even though they are not Friars Minor, they have adopted this aspect of the Franciscan spirit into their charism. They spend long hours before the Blessed Sacrament and bring many people to that same devotion too.

There is a lot of good out there in NO or OF parishes. I would love to hear more stories like these on this thread, rather than bickering over the rules.

Unknown to us, there are more faithful religious, priests, and lay people out there, than we know about. We should know. It would be an inspiration.

Sometimes these debates can depress and make one feel that the Church is going to hell in a hand basket, which is not the case at all. There are many holy people out there, whether they prefer EF or OF.

JR

 

[Jeanette_L]

Great posts, you two. The priest of the parish we visited today also gave a beautiful homily on the reality of Christ in the Eucharist. He spoke on how Mother Theresa directed that in all of the communities of the Missionaries of Charity there was to be a sign in the sacristy that read “Priest of God, Celebrate this Mass as if it were your first Mass, your last Mass, and your only Mass.” He then told us to receive Christ in a like manner.

I like this. I am going to try to think about this from now on when I’m approaching Christ in the Eucharist. Thanks!

 

[Jeanette_L]

Sometimes these debates can depress and make one feel that the Church is going to hell in a hand basket, which is not the case at all. There are many holy people out there, whether they prefer EF or OF.

JR

They can depress, but lucky for me I don’t feel the Church is going to hell in a handbasket, Christ has promised otherwise.

I certainly think there are those who have forgotten this promise.

 

[Saint_Gemma]

Oh, incidently, the “society’s” web says it is Cardinal Ratzinger.
but strange, Pope Benedict wants to** keep **the new rite? You mean He wants to keep a “fabricated” liturgy?

Oh no, heaven forbid!

Do you have any proof that he did not really say it?

 

[Dies_Irae]

Speaking of OF, at the end of our mass today, the priest read a letter from his superior on the Eucharist. It was beautiful. I can’t quote the entire thing, even if I could remember it all. But there were some words that really struck home.

He told his sons and the parishioners through them that the Eucharist was a reciprocal relationship in which Christ remains incarnate among us and draws us into the mystery of his incarnation in a very real and physical manner.

He also reminded all of the importance of proper reverence toward the Eucharist.

He reminded the laity that we must always approach the Eucharist with purpose. The Eucharist is not to be taken lightly, like one who goes to the fridge to get a snack. But he recommended that a period of contemplative prayer should precede every approach to the Eucharist in communion.

He concluded by reminding us that the Eucharist is not only available to us in communion, but is also available for adoration and that such adoration is an act of charity and at the root of every form of holiness.

He closed by reminding us how St. Francis of Assisi and St. Clare of Assisi found their Lord and Master through a life of perpetual adoration. This life is not just for them, but for all. It was not that St. Francis or St. Clare were holier than others, but they were open to a grace that God gives to us all. The grace of love for Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

It was very moving. I wanted to share it with all of you. I’m paraphrasing it, because it was longer. Unfortunately, they had not copies for the laity.

JR

Sounds like an excellent homily!

We were treated to a one as well today along a similar line from a Dominican priest (he’s been visiting and helping out in the confessional at the ICKSP oratory in St. Louis for several months). He was invited to give the homily today and what a treat! Like you, I wish I had a copy to post. All about what a blessing and gift is Our Lord’s presence in the Blessed Sacrament - I’d try to repeat some of what he said but it wouldn’t do him any justice. Like you, I wish I had a copy to post!

*[sidenote: My understanding is that Father is a professor of homelitics (sp?) at Kenrick Seminary in St. Louis - and has been called to teach the same in Rome and will be leaving in a month or two. St. Louis’ loss is Rome’s gain!] *

At your parish, was anything else done “extra” to celebrate Corpus Christi (or the Solemnity of the Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ as it was most likely called there) - like Eucharistic Procession or Benediction? I know several OF parishes had special things going on today. I love to hear how these great feast days are celebrated elsewhere.

God bless,

Dies Irae

 

[ethelzguy]

They can depress, but lucky for me I don’t feel the Church is going to hell in a handbasket, Christ has promised otherwise.

I certainly think there are those who have forgotten this promise.

Bingo! (In the most Catholic sense)

 

[Dies_Irae]

I agree with everything that is in** BOLD**, Auntie M, thanks

Heh - thanks OR.

Methinks Auntie M is a lil’ bit angry…at something .

 

[consumedconvert]

Sounds like an excellent homily!

We were treated to a one as well today along a similar line from a Dominican priest (he’s been visiting and helping out in the confessional at the ICKSP oratory in St. Louis for several months). He was invited to give the homily today and what a treat! Like you, I wish I had a copy to post. All about what a blessing and gift is Our Lord’s presence in the Blessed Sacrament - I’d try to repeat some of what he said but it wouldn’t do him any justice. Like you, I wish I had a copy to post!

*[sidenote: My understanding is that Father is a professor of homelitics (sp?) at Kenrick Seminary in St. Louis - and has been called to teach the same in Rome and will be leaving in a month or two. St. Louis’ loss is Rome’s gain!] *

At your parish, was anything else done “extra” to celebrate Corpus Christi (or the Solemnity of the Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ as it was most likely called there) - like Eucharistic Procession or Benediction? I know several OF parishes had special things going on today. I love to hear how these great feast days are celebrated elsewhere.

God bless,

Dies Irae

Hey Dies,

Great post.

But what does **ICKSP ** stand for?

 

[consumedconvert]

Bingo! (In the most Catholic sense)

LOL!!

I’ve actually heard a certain Baptist pastor preach against the Catholic propensity for Bingo. The way he said it, it seemed that Bingo was obviously intrinsically evil.

I really struggle with visiting the inlaws’ church.

 

[Jeanette_L]

LOL!!

I’ve actually heard a certain Baptist pastor preach against the Catholic propensity for Bingo. The way he said it, it seemed that Bingo was obviously intrinsically evil.

I really struggle with visiting the inlaws’ church.

there are all kinds of silly things said about the Catholics in those circles, I heard them all. If these things just weren’t so doggone sad…

Don’t blame you at all for the struggle.

 

[Auntie_M]

I am so sorry that you refuse to hear the truth.

This IS NOT RHETORIC,SECOND HAND HORROR STORIES, RUMORS, OR INUENDOES.

I am quite offended that you just called me a liar. I happen to know these people, dear friends of mine, whose daughter got involved with the SSPX and this is REALLY happening.

Now, if YOU want to bury your head in the sand, please don’t get bit by any crabs…

to Dies

I think your remarks about the Rhetoric, second hand horror stories, rumors or inuendoes, is just a bit un Christian.

This family is in a Crisis! Understand? It is not just that one likes the Latin mass and the other likes the NO. It is a major battle.
The girl has threathened the mother, but says she is a devout christian. It is a real battle there. This family used to be a very loving group of people. But this girl has been told by her priest, she needs to distance herself from her parents. “They are not one of us”…

I did not bring this up to “convert” anyone. Your uncharitable remarks were really uncalled for. And Yes, “Methinks Auntie M
IS a bit angry”

I feel for these people in a very real sense, and I pray for them daily. And it is attitudes like yours that gives Catholics in either mass a bad name.

I do believe that if these people were YOUR friends, you would be a little upset with remarks like that also.

 

[Dies_Irae]

Hey Dies,

Great post.

But what does **ICKSP **stand for?

Thanks.

And ICKSP stands for the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest - see institute-christ-king.org/.

God bless,

Dies Irae

 

[Dies_Irae]

to Dies

I think your remarks about the Rhetoric, second hand horror stories, rumors or inuendoes, is just a bit un Christian.

This family is in a Crisis! Understand? It is not just that one likes the Latin mass and the other likes the NO. It is a major battle.
The girl has threathened the mother, but says she is a devout christian. It is a real battle there. This family used to be a very loving group of people. But this girl has been told by her priest, she needs to distance herself from her parents. “They are not one of us”…

I did not bring this up to “convert” anyone. Your uncharitable remarks were really uncalled for. And Yes, “Methinks Auntie M
IS a bit angry”

I feel for these people in a very real sense, and I pray for them daily. And it is attitudes like yours that gives Catholics in either mass a bad name.

I do believe that if these people were YOUR friends, you would be a little upset with remarks like that also.

Sorry AuntieM - I just don’t think this personal family struggle/conflict is in any way typical or a fair painting of traditional peoples’ attitudes, and as such, is really out of place here. Sounds like the family does need much prayer - so I’ll put 'em on my prayer list, and would recommend putting something up on the prayer request forum here on CA (powerful prayer warriors in there!)

Such tragic confilicts do happen - absolutely - and frankly, there’s enough blame to go around at all levels and on each side of the SSPX divide (we’re all human here!). But it seems to me like your closeness to the situationmay be tainting your view of the poster’s on these forums, and of traditional minded people in general. Please try to open your heart just a little bit - give’m a chance. They’re some of the nicest people you’ll meet .

Anyway - sorry if I offended you. I just thought that post was way out of line, waaaaaay too broad a brush.

It would be similar to if I painted all people who preferred the OF as nominal, sunday skipping, cafeteria catholics (Lord knows they exist - and need our prayers too!) - but that just wouldn’t be fair.

God bless,

Dies Irae