A single woman's rant

[Joseph_L_Varga]

I guess sex drive is like a horse, you have to break it and take it under control. You should make it clear, who is the boss, your sex drive or your willpower.

I had a biology teacher in middle school, once he told us that his wife had been paralyzed and in wheelchair for 16 years. In some cases, even married people will have a heavy cross laid upon them. Another example that comes to my mind, I’ve read an interview with someone who was a POW in Vietnam for some 7 years. His wife took care of their 3 kids alone, and after his ordeal, they were happily reunited. But during those 7 years, they both obviously had to put their sexuality on hold.

 

[TLM08]

I haven’t done this too much, but I really need to rant. One thing I really can’t stand about being a Christian is the fact that it’s almost impossible to be a single woman and a Christian without growing to hate your sexuality. Any itch, any feeling of sexual desire is only a temptation, or an occasion to sin. In other words, the sexuality of a single person is only a gift if it is completely dormant and inactive. It serves no useful purpose. It doesn’t help you find a spouse, it doesn’t help you become a saint.

I know that my sexuality is not entirely useless. It is a cross, and the anxiety, frustration, and the sadness that I feel as a result of it (I’m crying while I write this) invites me to participate in the sufferings of Christ. I know that what doesn’t kill me will ultimately make me stronger, and if my sexuality doesn’t crush my soul, i’ll ultimately emerge a stronger Christian. But how many crosses can I bear? Quite frankly, I don’t know how I can bear this one.

I don’t know if I’m supposed to get married or not, but it just doesn’t seem fair. If I get married, my desires will suddenly become good. But as long as I am single, my desires will remain vile and wicked. Or rather, as Christian teaching has it, my sex drive is good, as long as it doesn’t exist. If it exists, then it’s bad.

What am I supposed to do? I’ve heard that one of the side effects of the Pill is it causes a woman’s sex drive to significantly decrease, and I have to admit, that sounds very appealing. Sometimes I think I should ask my doctor to put me on the Pill, so that my sex drive will diminish. If I can’t make it go away, then at least I can minimize it. I know it’s not a solution, but there is no solution. I HATE MY SEX DRIVE and as long as I am single, Christianity gives me no other choice but to hate it.

A black and white view on human sexuality is the single biggest source of emotional distress inflicted on good people who simply wishing to have a balanced and healthy view of their body and it’s desires, and still have the love of Christ in their lives.

Celibate church leaders are not compelled to re-examine the 1000 year-old moral codes in light of 21st century life on this planet. Furthermore, human physiology is not designed for total celibacy. Our sexual drive is always a gift. It’s there for a reason, but not everyone is ready for marriage. Be at peace with your desires and recognize them for what they really are. Nature wants babies.

For anyone to condemn a single person to burn in Hell for having a sexual thought or self-relieving an overwhelming physical desire is nothing short of spiritual abuse and the perfect set-up for religious and sexual addictions.

Dear lady, just relax, seek the love of Christ and do the best you can. Stop hating yourself because you cannot conform 100% all of the time. Who among us can? Take any self-hatred and guilt and turn that energy into acts of generosity toward people in need.
God Bless You!

 

[chevalier]

See, this is what I’m talking about! The constant anxiety because nothing is allowed, so any moment you might cross the line. The ONLY thing your sex drive provides the single person is an occasion to sin. It’s a terrifying urge, because it can send you to Hell.

I know, the sex drive keeps the species going and what not. But when you’re not married, that’s purely theoretical. It’s as useful to me as pancreatic cancer.

God isn’t waiting for “any moment” and He’s fair with everything. He doesn’t lay traps for us. That we can’t handle it right sometimes is a different thing. Making some things allowed wouldn’t be the answer because the only good reason to allow a thing is that it’s not evil. In case of disordered sexual acts, they’re evil. It would be good, however, to stop obsessing and find some healthy approach. It seems to me you might be blaming yourself for things that aren’t your choice. If you didn’t make a choice, you didn’t sin.

 

[whatevergirl]

You know lucy, your thread here is very timely relating to the priest’s homily at the parish we went to, yesterday. He said…‘sometimes we think our suffering is going to get the best of us, but there is no pointless suffering, if we ourselves did not cause the suffering to happen.’ In other words, the sex drive that you have is healthy. God created us to have sex drives, and had it not been for the fall of mankind …it probably wouldn’t feel like ‘suffering’ as you mention it here. I think that restraint, sacrifice, and suffering are really not pointless, when we realize that we can unite this suffering to Christ.

Christ’s suffering was far worse than anything we could ever endure, when you think about it. It might feel very difficult now, but sometimes, when I ‘suffer’ with various things in life, I remember that. I remember Christ’s scourging…His dying on a cross…the mocking and persecution of Him. It shows me that yes, my suffering is real, and yes, it has a point…but it will never be what Christ suffered. Not that it diminishes our suffering, but it shows us that we are not alone. Even our Father in Heaven suffered for us. Came down from Heaven, and felt what we felt. It helps when I’m suffering to remember this…to dwell on it, even.

I will keep you in my prayers. Remember, what you are going through is not pointless. And it’s not wicked. Your sex drive is not wicked.

 

[whatevergirl]

See, this is what I’m talking about! The constant anxiety because nothing is allowed, so any moment you might cross the line. The ONLY thing your sex drive provides the single person is an occasion to sin. It’s a terrifying urge, because it can send you to Hell.

I know, the sex drive keeps the species going and what not. But when you’re not married, that’s purely theoretical. It’s as useful to me as pancreatic cancer.

Your near occasion to sin won’t send you to hell, and it takes conscious will and intent to commit a mortal sin. I would seek out a priest, or a nun if you feel more comfortable, to discuss this with him/her, because I think that you have a bit of a paranoid vision of sin. God detests sin, but mortal sin has to have three components as you know. That being said, if you are trying to do the right and moral thing, and you slip, say…but are repentant, and keep trying to stay pure, how can such a life take you to hell? God isn’t sitting in heaven waiting to smite us. He loves us, and while we need to try to steer clear of sin, He knows we will stumble. Don’t be too hard on yourself.

 

[agapewolf]

But during those 7 years, they both obviously had to put their sexuality on hold.

I get what you were saying, but lets use good terminology. NO ONE ever puts their sexuality “on hold”.

Sexuality is who you are, a man or a woman. You don’t cease being a man or a woman if you can’t have sexual intercourse.

Just because a couple cannot enjoy the marital embrace, they are to continue living out their vocation in light of their sexuality, not in spite of it

 

[chevalier]

For anyone to condemn a single person to burn in Hell for having a sexual thought or self-relieving an overwhelming physical desire is nothing short of spiritual abuse and the perfect set-up for religious and sexual addictions.

A judgemental approach is not proper, but self-relieving is masturbation and masturbation is grave matter. Grave matter is you know what.

 

[TLM08]

See, this is what I’m talking about! The constant anxiety because nothing is allowed, so any moment you might cross the line. The ONLY thing your sex drive provides the single person is an occasion to sin. It’s a terrifying urge, because it can send you to Hell.

I know, the sex drive keeps the species going and what not. But when you’re not married, that’s purely theoretical. It’s as useful to me as pancreatic cancer.

In a world that can produce the evils such as drug addiction, greed, rape, abortion, murder, child abuse, torture, war attrocities, genocide, and the financial rape of an entire nation by white collar criminals, the last thing anyone needs to be worrying themselves sick over is a vibrator in the nightstand drawer. This is not the reason our savior came to die on the cross. Christ hated legalism!

 

[whatevergirl]

In a world that can produce the evils such as drug addiction, greed, rape, abortion, murder, child abuse, torture, war attrocities, genocide, and the financial rape of an entire nation by white collar criminals, the last thing anyone needs to be worrying themselves sick over is a vibrator in the nightstand drawer. This is not the reason our savior came to die on the cross. Christ hated legalism!

You make an interesting and blunt, lol point. I think that there is a vast difference between someone who is habitually sinning in a sexual way, with will and intent and forethought, and a person who is in deep anguish, and stumbles out of weakness now and again. I get sad when I read that people think they are going to hell, because they ‘messed up’ now and again…Jesus died for our sins, and we must continue to strive to be more like Him, yes, but not lose our joy and worry needlessly in doing so. Jesus told us not to fear or worry. If we sin, if we are weak, and stumble…we should ask for forgiveness…and BELIEVE that He will forgive us, and thus, we need to forgive ourselves, and continue the journey.

 

[TLM08]

A judgemental approach is not proper, but self-relieving is masturbation and masturbation is grave matter. Grave matter is you know what.

Many single people give up trying to be perfect due to this legalism. They often abandon their faith entirely and fall into a lifestyle of nightclub promiscuity.

If “it” keeps a single woman from destroying herself emotionally worrying herself sick with fear and anxiety then I personally believe “it” is the moral equivalent of failing to hold back a sneeze at the salad bar.

 

[PaulinVA]

We all have urges of a sexual nature. Well, at least most of us if not all. Whether we are married or single, gay or straight, 18 or 80, we all, either occasionally or constantly (or somewhere in between) have thoughts of a sexual nature.

Sometimes there is a licit outlet for those thoughts, but most of the times there is not.

If you have never been married with kids, you might think that married life is just one big sex-a-thon, but it isn’t. There are kids to take care of, housework to do, dinners to make, work to obsess over, traffic to drive in. In my experience over 25 years, having all things align correctly for two people in a marriage to want and be able to have sex is truly a thing to be cherished. For it doesn’t happen as often as you would think, and maybe not as often as you would like.

We are all, at one time or another, struggling with this. Some people struggle their entire life. Some people struggle when single. Some people are married and struggle. Some people experience same sex attraction and have a life-long struggle.

When we find the struggle is especially intense. let’s pray for those who may never have a licit outlet for these intense feelings.

 

[agapewolf]

In a world that can produce the evils such as drug addiction, greed, rape, abortion, murder, child abuse, torture, war attrocities, genocide, and the financial rape of an entire nation by white collar criminals, the last thing anyone needs to be worrying themselves sick over is a vibrator in the nightstand drawer. This is not the reason our savior came to die on the cross. Christ hated legalism!

The problem you have here is that you fail to see that one leads to the other.

These evils you speak of did not just happen. They gradually come from a distorted view of the dignity of the person. One of those ways that is acted out is in distorted view of our sexuality and sexual activity. Personal sexual sins such as masturbation are acting out the fact that we fail to see sex as a gift, rather its a “take”. Christ did come to save us for ALL sins…and even the most personal sin affects the whole world.

 

[TLM08]

The problem you have here is that you fail to see that one leads to the other.

These evils you speak of did not just happen. They gradually come from a distorted view of the dignity of the person. One of those ways that is acted out is in distorted view of our sexuality and sexual activity. Personal sexual sins such as masturbation are acting out the fact that we fail to see sex as a gift, rather its a “take”. Christ did come to save us for ALL sins…and even the most personal sin affects the whole world.

Are you serious? Please don’t tell me that “self-relief” leads to genocide, abortion, torture and war. So the lonely widow or single person who does this in the privacy of her own bedroom is affecting the whole world? This is exactly the kind of thinking that consumes good people with terrible guilt and drives them away from the love of Christ!

Another thing: Telling single and widowed people that their sexuality is a “gift” but to experiencing it in any way shape or form is gravely immoral is nothing short of spiritual abuse.

 

[agapewolf]

Are you serious? Please don’t tell me that “self-relief” leads to genocide, abortion, torture and war. So the lonely widow or single person who does this in the privacy of her own bedroom is affecting the whole world? This is exactly the kind of thinking that consumes good people with terrible guilt and drives them away from the love of Christ!

Another thing: Telling single and widowed people that their sexuality is a “gift” but to experiencing it in any way shape or form is gravely immoral is nothing short of spiritual abuse.

I’m dead serious. Please read theology of the body.
“Experiencing” sexuality is just enjoying being a man and a woman and loving others in that role. Use of the sexual organs is not “experiencing sexuality”
I am a single woman. I try my best to love others as a woman would. I live a chaste life, as best I can, and I am “experiencing” my sexuality. It IS a gift to love others as a woman, and I don’t need to have sexual intercourse, or masterbate in order to do so.

It is spiritual abuse to rationalize an immoral action by what appears to be a better end. It is spiritual abuse to try to make people feel “ok” about gravely immoral actions. This isn’t something that people just came up with, this is church teaching.

yes, even the smallest sin affects the whole world. There is a spiritual plain out there that none of us can see. just because it doesn’t “seem” to affect the day to day life, the spiritual consequences still exist…even if a person in not culpable to the sin.

What a person does in the “privacy” in their own bedroom is really not private at all. God knows all. Souls are affected. Just because you can’t comprehend it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

And yes, “self-relief” in its own way, can escalate. It is lust. It is about taking, and distorting the dignity of the person. It can lead to pornography, seperating the soul from the body. Pornography itself distorts the human person and their integrity which leads to all sorts of selfish actions, small and large.

 

[chevalier]

In a world that can produce the evils such as drug addiction, greed, rape, abortion, murder, child abuse, torture, war attrocities, genocide, and the financial rape of an entire nation by white collar criminals, the last thing anyone needs to be worrying themselves sick over is a vibrator in the nightstand drawer. This is not the reason our savior came to die on the cross. Christ hated legalism!

Christ said, “go and sin no more.” He didn’t say, “go and don’t sin too much.” I find your point deeply problematic. Masturbation is grave matter. This means that with full knowledge and consent it’s a mortal sin. Also, He died on the cross for each and every sin, of which I do not need to remind you.

Many single people give up trying to be perfect due to this legalism. They often abandon their faith entirely and fall into a lifestyle of nightclub promiscuity.

Calling a mortal sin a mortal sin or grave matter grave matter is not legalism. I repeat, masturbation is grave matter. And in saying this, I do not incur guilt for people abandoning faith or taking on promiscuous lifestyles. The teaching of the Church is:

**2352 **By *masturbation *is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

From the Catechism.

 

[chevalier]

Are you serious? Please don’t tell me that “self-relief” leads to genocide, abortion, torture and war. So the lonely widow or single person who does this in the privacy of her own bedroom is affecting the whole world? This is exactly the kind of thinking that consumes good people with terrible guilt and drives them away from the love of Christ!

Another thing: Telling single and widowed people that their sexuality is a “gift” but to experiencing it in any way shape or form is gravely immoral is nothing short of spiritual abuse.

You experience the gift of your sexuality by being male or female, with all it entails. You do not need to have sexual intercourse or a replacement of it. If you say that saying that masturbation is gravely immoral, then you say that the Church commits gravely immoral acts in its Magisterium. Therefore, I suggest you tone it down. Really.

The only true thing that is connected to what you say is that in many cases culpability is reduced because people are ignorant or struggle with addictions or are immature. In some cases, possibly many cases, people who masturbate don’t commit a mortal sin. But objectively, masturbation is grave matter, which means to consent to it with full knowledge is a mortal sin. Warning people against it is an act of charity, not abuse.

 

[whatevergirl]

I’m dead serious. Please read theology of the body.
“Experiencing” sexuality is just enjoying being a man and a woman and loving others in that role. Use of the sexual organs is not “experiencing sexuality”
I am a single woman. I try my best to love others as a woman would. I live a chaste life, as best I can, and I am “experiencing” my sexuality. It IS a gift to love others as a woman, and I don’t need to have sexual intercourse, or masterbate in order to do so.

It is spiritual abuse to rationalize an immoral action by what appears to be a better end. It is spiritual abuse to try to make people feel “ok” about gravely immoral actions. This isn’t something that people just came up with, this is church teaching.

yes, even the smallest sin affects the whole world. There is a spiritual plain out there that none of us can see. just because it doesn’t “seem” to affect the day to day life, the spiritual consequences still exist…even if a person in not culpable to the sin.

What a person does in the “privacy” in their own bedroom is really not private at all. God knows all. Souls are affected. Just because you can’t comprehend it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

And yes, “self-relief” in its own way, can escalate. It is lust. It is about taking, and distorting the dignity of the person. It can lead to pornography, seperating the soul from the body. Pornography itself distorts the human person and their integrity which leads to all sorts of selfish actions, small and large.

I agree with what you’re saying, but it isn’t always about lust, because if it were, the Catholic Church, wouldn’t have an area in the Catechism speaking about how one can be less culpable under certain circumstances. Anxiety, maturity, etc…doesn’t fall into the lust category. For many, lust can be and is present before the act begins, but not all. Lust isn’t always at the core–if it were, everyone would be 100% culpable, every time.

What I think TLM is saying, is that in the scheme of things, it can be unhealthy to obsess over near occasions of sin. I also had a priest tell me many moons ago that it’s equally sinful to think that we can control our pathway to heaven. In following Christ, we should want to please Him…to be more like Him. In our weaknesses, though, we shouldn’t think we will be cut off from God forever, isn’t that what Confession is for? Now, we shouldn’t keep on commiting sin after sin, and just tritely showing up to Confession, without true remorse. Of course not. But, it is dangerous to tell someone that their weaknesses could prevent them from eternal life. It negates what Jesus did for us…and frankly, that is the only reason we have any opportunity to achieve salvation…THROUGH HIM.

 

[agapewolf]

I agree with what you’re saying, but it isn’t always about lust, because if it were, the Catholic Church, wouldn’t have an area in the Catechism speaking about how one can be less culpable under certain circumstances. Anxiety, maturity, etc…doesn’t fall into the lust category. For many, lust can be and is present before the act begins, but not all. Lust isn’t always at the core–if it were, everyone would be 100% culpable, every time.

What I think TILM is saying, is that in the scheme of things, it can be unhealthy to obsess over near occasions of sin.

I was speaking simply on objective terms. You are right, culpability plays a huge factor. But also, the consequences are there still, whether a person is culpable or not.

TLM is rationalizing sin, and that is wrong.

 

[whatevergirl]

I was speaking simply on objective terms. You are right, culpability plays a huge factor. But also, the consequences are there still, whether a person is culpable or not.

TLM is rationalizing sin, and that is wrong.

Oops, I added onto my previous message. lol

I see it as if someone (like lucy the main poster) is trying to overcome sin…or a sinful pattern…or the tempation TO sin…that is what Jesus asks of each of us. In that striving, we become more like Him. I think more of what TLM is saying is that there are other areas of concern in our world that deserve our attention, rather than worrying over a temptation to ‘relieve ourselves’ of something that is causing us anxiety. What doesn’t help matters, is that our secular world tells us that this is healthy, and ok.

 

[chevalier]

I agree with what you’re saying, but it isn’t always about lust, because if it were, the Catholic Church, wouldn’t have an area in the Catechism speaking about how one can be less culpable under certain circumstances. Anxiety, maturity, etc…doesn’t fall into the lust category. For many, lust can be and is present before the act begins, but not all. Lust isn’t always at the core–if it were, everyone would be 100% culpable, every time.

It seems you define lust as a desire to possess a person or reduce him or her to an object, but without including in that definition a disordered desire for sexual pleasure. A desire for disordered pleasure is disordered too because one can’t have an ordered desire for a disordered thing. This means that a desire to masturbate is always a desire for disordered sexual pleasure. It’s still some form of lust even if one is thinking only about relief, but not about obtaining sexual gratification. Immaturity in this case may either preclude lust (poor judgement is not lust), or be a factor that makes a person less able to resist temptations of lust than a resonable adult would be. Or more ignorant of it. As a result, while a mortal sin of lust, in which one fully and informedly consents to lust, may be absent, but a disordered desire is still there.

What I think TLM is saying, is that in the scheme of things, it can be unhealthy to obsess over near occasions of sin.

Obsessively seeing near occasions everywhere is disordered and unhealthy. But a vibrator or a completed act of masturbation is not a mere occasion.

I also had a priest tell me many moons ago that it’s equally sinful to think that we can control our pathway to heaven.

We cannot control our way to heaven and there is nothing we could do to deserve it without God’s grace, in which case it’s still God’s gift, not something we earned fair and square. Obessing about small sins can lead a person to focus on himself instead of God and try to do it alone, without God’s help.

But this never means we should give in to our urges just because they are strong.

In following Christ, we should want to please Him…to be more like Him. In our weaknesses, though, we shouldn’t think we will be cut off from God forever, isn’t that what Confession is for? Now, we shouldn’t keep on commiting sin after sin, and just tritely showing up to Confession, without true remorse. Of course not. But, it is dangerous to tell someone that their weaknesses could prevent them from eternal life. It negates what Jesus did for us…and frankly, that is the only reason we have any opportunity to achieve salvation…THROUGH HIM.

Which doesn’t mean a vibrator is fine or only minimally wrong, or other things that TLM said. We truly ought to remove the bar from our own eye before taking a splinter out of our neighbour’s, but grave matter is grave matter and single people are not free to help themselves. That is not a natural outlet, but an objectively gravely disordered act. Love the sinner, hate the sin.