A single woman's rant

[whatevergirl]

…and don’t put words in your neighbors’ mouths, either…chev I didn’t define lust as anything really. You are saying I did. But lust is not a desire to do something disordered. Lust is actually the disorder. It is wrong for us to lust anything, whether it be money, sex, whatever…

If someone is not completely culpable, then he/she wouldn’t have a ‘desire’ really to do anything, it would be nearly like the anxiety, maturity factor, ignorance, etc mitigated the culpability. Didn’t dismiss it, but reduced it. That’s what I was saying. I don’t need a lesson on what lust is, but thank you.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

The problem with this particular sin and why it’s so evil for someone to say it’s “okay” is that it is disordered to its core.

It takes something that is supposed to be a mutual act of love and self giving (which is really fundamentally what the OP is searching for at the heart of the matter, not a glandular exercise) and reduces it to a solitary act that at its core cannot satisfy.

It becomes an act of self love and selfishness. And it doesn’t matter if it is done alone and in the privacy of a bedroom, its fruits will be felt eventually in how the participant deals with others. Especially men.

This habit destroys marriages.

It can become addictive.

And if “real love” eventually comes around, the participant may find they have warped themselves and their ability to give love to another to such an extent that they cannot enjoy or participate in MUTUAL relations.

People are not battery operated toys or objects. Sin has a way of distorting beauty and goodness and turning it into its counterpart.

And where love and self control once existed, the kind of love and self control that are required to make marriage work, the person is selfish and believes they have the right to give in to what ever passion strikes whenever it strikes.

You can train your brain to be that way, you know. And sex is really in the brain first and foremost. Especially for females. Ask a woman if she’d be willing to have relations with someone she hates or who turns her off. If her brain isn’t in the game, the rest won’t follow. Which is where the discipline to order it must begin. If you sat all day and said “Don’t think about chocolate cake! I’m not allowed to think about chocolate cake. My mean Creator told me I can never have chocolate cake. I’m deprived without chocolate cake” eventually that is ALL you’re thinking about… chocolate cake.

I would not want it on my soul that I got on a Catholic message board and gave someone who was confused or hurting permission to go down a gravely sinful path that could lead to the destruction of their soul and their ultimate happiness.

 

[whatevergirl]

That is a great post, Liberano. I agree. I think it’s best if someone is truly struggling to the point that the OP is, she should discuss with a priest she trusts…or a spiritual advisor…someone she can turn to. But, the Cathecism is a great place to of course, revisit to understand the Church’s stance on this.

The thing is, lucy isn’t talking about sinning. She is talking about her struggle to prevent herself from sinning. This thread grew legs and wandered into something different entirely.

 

[sanctamaria17]

TLM, as someone who does struggle with this particular sin, let me tell you, it DOES affect how you treat others.

Yes, sex is a gift, it’s beautiful, etc, etc. But if you can’t even control how you treat yourself, if you know that it’s wrong to treat yourself like that, how about others?

Sexuality is such a small piece of human identity, yet we use it to judge and justify so much. Yes, loneliness is hard. I am a single woman nearing the age of twenty and I do ache for love of a romantic sort. But my faith in God is greater than my loneliness and while by myself, I can do nothing, through Him, I can do everything.

For me, acting on sexuality just proves that I have no control or mastery over my desires. How is that going to serve me if I’m married but my husband or I am terminally ill? Or post-partum abstinence? Or if my husband or I were in the military? Marriage is not and should not be a free for all to relieve lust.

No, one single thought or touch won’t destroy you. But your foundation on the inside carries over to the outside. When I let loose in one area, I find I am looser with things such as my temper, my ability to shut people out and my own selfishness. When I keep things in check though, I learn I can rise above it.

How many men have justified the rape of a woman due to their inability to control themselves? If someone cannot control their anger (which can be used for good) and ends up killing someone else, is that acceptable? Why is it the same with sexuality.

 

[whatevergirl]

Sin does have a way of begetting more sin, that is true. I remember a man who cheated on his wife at a company I worked at before the one I’m presently at, and he then started stealing from the company. I remember thinking that if someone would lie to his/her spouse, then it probably would be easier to lie to complete strangers or coworkers…

I am not sure I’d lump rape/murder in with a person masturbating…but, it definitely is a good analogy maria, to showing that a spark can turn into a flame, and then an inferno, if not checked/stopped.

 

[chevalier]

…and don’t put words in your neighbors’ mouths, either…chev

You didn’t say it directly, but if you say masturbation in those cases isn’t really about lust, then your definition of lust doesn’t include what otherwise makes that kind of masturbation lustful. It’s a logical prerequisite.

I didn’t define lust as anything really. You are saying I did. But lust is not a desire to do something disordered. Lust is actually the disorder. It is wrong for us to lust anything, whether it be money, sex, whatever…

Traditionally, in case of money you talk about greed, in case of food you talk about gluttony and so on. Those are of themselves venial sin. Lust as a disordered desire for sexual pleasure is mortal (i.e. when it takes the form of consent or intent and when the consent and knowledge are full). The substantial difference is that in cases where it wouldn’t lawful to engage in sexual intercourse, we cannot talk about a mere excess making lust a mortal sin, contrary to greed or gluttony, where excess makes a venial sin. I’m not pretending you don’t know this, just pointing out the difference.

If someone is not completely culpable, then he/she wouldn’t have a ‘desire’ really to do anything, it would be nearly like the anxiety, maturity factor, ignorance, etc mitigated the culpability. Didn’t dismiss it, but reduced it. That’s what I was saying. I don’t need a lesson on what lust is, but thank you.

Couldn’t give you an unsubstantiated “not really”, so a certain amount of preaching to the choir was necessary. Masturbation committed in ignorance or out of anxiety is still about lust, even though culpability is reduced. I suppose in case of mere relief, when an ignorant person performs a mechanical masturbation without imagining anything, to relieve the tension and be free of it, then you could say it was more about seeking relief than it was about lust, at least practically - don’t know how it would be theologically. Anyway, I’m no mood for hair splitting tonight. I’ve had enough for a while.

 

[whatevergirl]

chevalier:
You didn’t say it directly, but if you say masturbation in those cases isn’t really about lust, then your definition of lust doesn’t include what otherwise makes that kind of masturbation lustful. It’s a logical prerequisite.

Traditionally, in case of money you talk about greed, in case of food you talk about gluttony and so on. Those are of themselves venial sin. Lust as a disordered desire for sexual pleasure is mortal (i.e. when it takes the form of consent or intent and when the consent and knowledge are full). The substantial difference is that in cases where it wouldn’t lawful to engage in sexual intercourse, we cannot talk about a mere excess making lust a mortal sin, contrary to greed or gluttony, where excess makes a venial sin. I’m not pretending you don’t know this, just pointing out the difference.

Couldn’t give you an unsubstantiated “not really”, so a certain amount of preaching to the choir was necessary. Masturbation committed in ignorance or out of anxiety is still about lust, even though culpability is reduced. I suppose in case of mere relief, when an ignorant person performs a mechanical masturbation without imagining anything, to relieve the tension and be free of it, then you could say it was more about seeking relief than it was about lust, at least practically - don’t know how it would be theologically. Anyway, I’m no mood for hair splitting tonight. I’ve had enough for a while.

you…not in the mood for splitting hairs…are you feeling ok, chev?



Truly though I’m not splitting hairs…or meaning to…I’m just pointing out the reasons behind a person being held less culpable. But, I suppose it could be likened to stealing…one could justify that it was to provide for one’s family, while another could justify that it’s for a drug habit. The first choice seems to be noble, but stealing is a grave matter no matter what…I think that is what you were trying to say.

Ok, I’m done beating a dead horse…at least for now. You’re funny though chev. Even when you are not meaning to be. ha

 

[chevalier]

you…not in the mood for splitting hairs…are you feeling ok, chev?

Splitting migraine. Not helped by you know which thread (which I refuse to read any more).

Truly though I’m not splitting hairs…or meaning to…I’m just pointing out the reasons behind a person being held less culpable. But, I suppose it could be likened to stealing…one could justify that it was to provide for one’s family, while another could justify that it’s for a drug habit. The first choice seems to be noble, but stealing is a grave matter no matter what…I think that is what you were trying to say.

Stealing out of hunger is awfully complicated in that regard. You can either see it as dire necessity, meaning you don’t give such consent as to make a mortal sin, or there’s no grave matter in it because you take only little and because refusal would be contrary to reason (property is not such an absolute right as to enable refusal for your food to be eaten by a person fainting from hunger). I can honestly live without knowing which it is. And I suppose it’s a venial sin if one is too proud to ask for that food (or for money to buy it). I refuse to dissect, “too ashamed to ask for food when fainting from hunger,” though.

Ok, I’m done beating a dead horse…at least for now. You’re funny though chev. Even when you are not meaning to be. ha

Thanks. I view it more in terms of annoying, myself.

 

[LSK]

In a world that can produce the evils such as drug addiction, greed, rape, abortion, murder, child abuse, torture, war attrocities, genocide, and the financial rape of an entire nation by white collar criminals, the last thing anyone needs to be worrying themselves sick over is a vibrator in the nightstand drawer. This is not the reason our savior came to die on the cross. Christ hated legalism!

Except that it is in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that masturbation is a grave sin. If Lucy wants to walk the path the Church has offered to her, this is not a way to deal with her lonliness and frustration. Jesus may not love legalism but neither does He approve of cafeteria Catholicism.

As a woman who has dealt with this, let me tell you that one of the reasons we have the confessional and the Sacraments is to help us keep our eyes on the prize. It is difficult, but I know that what I think I cannot do or the experts tell me I cannot be, God can help me obtain. I just have to be willing to ask for help, like you did with the ‘rant’, when I need it. Hang in there, Lucy girl…you are a beautiful child of God…so be THAT!!!

 

[valient_Lucy]

The thing is, lucy isn’t talking about sinning. She is talking about her struggle to prevent herself from sinning. This thread grew legs and wandered into something different entirely.

Wow! Truer words were never spoken. This thread really did go in another direction, which is not wholly unsurprising. But I have to say I was kind of creeped out by people inferring that I was using vibrators or something!

Anyway, I appreciate the advice, and that no one chewed me out for needing to rant. I’m usually ok with simply writing rants in my journal, but for some reason, I needed people to read this one.

I appreciate the advice about keeping busy and finding a spiritual director. I don’t have a spiritual director, but I do go to confession regularly. I should probably bring this up the next time I go. The keeping busy one was also good, since I feel better when I’m busy anyway.

 

[Barbieflausa]

It has been a long time since I’ve been here. My dad has been ill and not much time for me to do anything else. I too have been struggling with some of the issues brought up here.

I am older than dirt now…and had totally given up the notion of ever being someone’s Sarah. Then low and behold I stike up a conversation with someone who has been a taking care of my vintage automobiles for nearly 15 years. I had forgotten what it was like to be noticed…I have been rejected by so many over the years who have gone on to chose some one else. I do not trust my heart nor my head.

I live in a town where most of the single men my age are with “each other” if you know what I mean. So to find a someone of my vintage AND a strong committed Christian has been a Godsend. However, this sweet committed Reformed Christian is only sepearated from his wife…NOT divoriced and THAT has so man red flags all over it…it just makes me sick. He’s got two great sons and the way he treast everyone who comes to his garage is in the manner of Saint Joseph; humble and gracious.

I am Orthodox, our church is a little more “forgiving” where it comes to divorice. (but no forums like this to chat with). But until he is actually divoriced I can not even begin to seek more, and I am truly sorry for that.

So I guess I go back to being the hermit…and devoted to teaching Sunday School children…and be happy about Jesus as my love.

 

[Sierrah]

Do you think single men, such as myself who often have a more powerful sex drive, have it any better? It is a cross and a burden we must all bear. Only prayer and prayerful support from of friends and neighbors can help us get through this.

May God bless you in your struggle, a struggle that I share.

I don’t think men suffer anymore then women do but our natures make us handle the suffering differently. In other words it certainly isn’t any easier for the women to abstain then it is for the man.

 

[Sierrah]

Think of Mary and her sex drive. She was a woman, so she had to deal with one. Pray the Rosary often, and remember, your Mother sympasizes with you.

I have to say she probably had it easier as she didn’t live in an over sexed society with blatant reminders posted and televised constantly around her. Also everyone was probably pretty much covered up and I doubt sex was a big topic of conversation. But what do I know.

 

[gracebewithyou]

I haven’t done this too much, but I really need to rant. One thing I really can’t stand about being a Christian is the fact that it’s almost impossible to be a single woman and a Christian without growing to hate your sexuality. Any itch, any feeling of sexual desire is only a temptation, or an occasion to sin. In other words, the sexuality of a single person is only a gift if it is completely dormant and inactive. It serves no useful purpose. It doesn’t help you find a spouse, it doesn’t help you become a saint.

I know that my sexuality is not entirely useless. It is a cross, and the anxiety, frustration, and the sadness that I feel as a result of it (I’m crying while I write this) invites me to participate in the sufferings of Christ. I know that what doesn’t kill me will ultimately make me stronger, and if my sexuality doesn’t crush my soul, i’ll ultimately emerge a stronger Christian. But how many crosses can I bear? Quite frankly, I don’t know how I can bear this one.

I don’t know if I’m supposed to get married or not, but it just doesn’t seem fair. If I get married, my desires will suddenly become good. But as long as I am single, my desires will remain vile and wicked. Or rather, as Christian teaching has it, my sex drive is good, as long as it doesn’t exist. If it exists, then it’s bad.

What am I supposed to do? I’ve heard that one of the side effects of the Pill is it causes a woman’s sex drive to significantly decrease, and I have to admit, that sounds very appealing. Sometimes I think I should ask my doctor to put me on the Pill, so that my sex drive will diminish. If I can’t make it go away, then at least I can minimize it. I know it’s not a solution, but there is no solution. I HATE MY SEX DRIVE and as long as I am single, Christianity gives me no other choice but to hate it.

Don’t forget that God gave you your sex drive. It is part of being human. I was single until I was thirty and I know what you are going through. I was there. I can only tell you that I prayed for Gods grace and strength. It wasn’t easy with everyone around me having sex freely, but I knew who I was. Somedays I was good others not so good. First just accept that this in not an evil part of you, it is how God made us. It is not the temptation that is the sin, but how we deal with it. It will be easier for you to overcome once you embrace and accept it. Remember God knows us better than we know ourselves; he loves you and knows your frustrations. Keep your FAITH!!

Much love and prayers.

Gracebewithyou

 

[whatevergirl]

Wow! Truer words were never spoken. This thread really did go in another direction, which is not wholly unsurprising. But I have to say I was kind of creeped out by people inferring that I was using vibrators or something!

Anyway, I appreciate the advice, and that no one chewed me out for needing to rant. I’m usually ok with simply writing rants in my journal, but for some reason, I needed people to read this one.

I appreciate the advice about keeping busy and finding a spiritual director. I don’t have a spiritual director, but I do go to confession regularly. I should probably bring this up the next time I go. The keeping busy one was also good, since I feel better when I’m busy anyway.

Hi lucy;

Yeah, when I saw the vibrator comment, I was like…huh? lol

You know, too, it’s hard to remember this when we’re thinking about our struggles…but always know, this too shall pass. As humans, like the seasons, we go through changes…ups and downs…highs and lows. The comforting thing is that when the nighttime comes, God brings the sunlight the next day, to begin anew. So, if you’re struggling…keep praying and fighting the good fight…and the ‘feelings’…the moment will pass. I can attest to this! God bless, and may Lent be a renewed time of strength for you…and me…and everyone!

 

[Bataar]

Speaking as a single male with no realistic thought of marriage, I can’t help but sometimes think of the Bible verse where Jesus says that if your hand causes you to sin, it would be better for you to cut it off. Or to gouge out your eye if that causes you to sin. If your sex drive is causing you to sin, wouldn’t it be following with Jesus’ words to “remove” it if there was a way?

 

[rpp]

Speaking as a single male with no realistic thought of marriage, I can’t help but sometimes think of the Bible verse where Jesus says that if your hand causes you to sin, it would be better for you to cut it off. Or to gouge out your eye if that causes you to sin. If your sex drive is causing you to sin, wouldn’t it be following with Jesus’ words to “remove” it if there was a way?

No one, even those in the audience when He spoke those words in thr Sermon on the Mount thought he meant that to be taken literally. Christ often taught using parables and similes.

 

[TLM08]

I haven’t done this too much, but I really need to rant. One thing I really can’t stand about being a Christian is the fact that it’s almost impossible to be a single woman and a Christian without growing to hate your sexuality. Any itch, any feeling of sexual desire is only a temptation, or an occasion to sin. In other words, the sexuality of a single person is only a gift if it is completely dormant and inactive. It serves no useful purpose. It doesn’t help you find a spouse, it doesn’t help you become a saint.

I know that my sexuality is not entirely useless. It is a cross, and the anxiety, frustration, and the sadness that I feel as a result of it (I’m crying while I write this) invites me to participate in the sufferings of Christ. I know that what doesn’t kill me will ultimately make me stronger, and if my sexuality doesn’t crush my soul, i’ll ultimately emerge a stronger Christian. But how many crosses can I bear? Quite frankly, I don’t know how I can bear this one.

I don’t know if I’m supposed to get married or not, but it just doesn’t seem fair. If I get married, my desires will suddenly become good. But as long as I am single, my desires will remain vile and wicked. Or rather, as Christian teaching has it, my sex drive is good, as long as it doesn’t exist. If it exists, then it’s bad.

What am I supposed to do? I’ve heard that one of the side effects of the Pill is it causes a woman’s sex drive to significantly decrease, and I have to admit, that sounds very appealing. Sometimes I think I should ask my doctor to put me on the Pill, so that my sex drive will diminish. If I can’t make it go away, then at least I can minimize it. I know it’s not a solution, but there is no solution. I HATE MY SEX DRIVE and as long as I am single, Christianity gives me no other choice but to hate it.

My intent was not to accuse you of actually using a vibrator… or anything else. Your post does seem to indicate more of a struggle against physical desire than anything else. It touched a chord with me because I’ve struggled with this stuff myself.

But I would still rather see anyone struggling with this realize that God doesn’t want us to wind up having a breakdown because we cannot always live 100% in compliance with church rules.
Peace & Blessings to you!

 

[xxxBlackDogxxx]

First of all, let me say that I am new to this site and this thread has been…interesting!

As a recent (and unwilling) convert back to singledom, let me say this. Someday (maybe very soon, who knows?) some guy is going to be very happy with you. My ex had no sex drive, in fact looked at it as a chore (mostly ignored). I would have *loved *to be with someone with a normal sex drive, let alone a strong one.

It’s not easy now (unfortunately, I am having to re-live celibacy–sigh–so I can commiserate) but there *is *a tomorrow and another way to look at it. If you took a poll, 99 if not 100% of men would say that a woman with a healthy sex drive is one of the best prizes this world has to offer. And in the grand scheme of things, there are more important things to worry about. That’s difficult to hear, I know. You obviously have a strong faith. What a gift! You are trying the best way you can to get through a struggle–perfect. God sees this, and in one way or another, he’ll reward you for it, and maybe in the future you will be able to help others going through this exact same thing.

By the way, I don’t think your desires are vile or wicked, they’re normal! God made sexuality as sure as he made hunger pains or any other normal emotion or drive we have. I also think it *is *a part of finding a spouse. Most of the time, your initial attraction to someone is based on sexual desire. That may change, but you do have to consider what thirty or forty years of sex with someone might be like. It shouldn’t be the determining factor, but let’s be honest, it’s in there somewhere.

Hang in there, you’ll get through it.

 

[Norseman82]

Lucy,

One of the lessons that seems to have been lost in today’s world is that of the group of people who need to discern this issue the most - seminarians. One of the reasons that seminarians (or those thinking of entering the seminary) determine that they are not called to the priesthood is that they determine that they cannot handle lifelong celibacy (for whatever reason, not just physical) and therefore they should be married. In fact, that is why I decided to not pursue the major seminary myself (the emotional “lack of family” part of it, anyway). So, if you determine that you cannot handle lifelong celibacy and you are canonically eligible to get married, then by all means pursue a valid Catholic marriage! You are not wrong to do so! And I truly believe that one of the reasons the state of marriage is so messed up today is that people are being given grief for wanting to be married. How many times when a person expresses a desire to get married do we see people criticizing them for not having self-control, wanting to get married for the wrong reasons, relying on others for their happiness, that they have to wait for an official “call” to marriage (which most likely goes against CCC 1603), how they can live fulfilling single lives, etc., etc. And to the person who said “Think of Mary and her sex drive”, what a way to give a person a guilt complex - think of all the people who may be reading this who now are going to be thinking that because they seek marriage, they are letting Mary down! How many of these people are going to need therapy later in life (unless the person who posted this is a therapist simply looking to drum up business for himself)? In fact, there is a theological problem with that post: Mary was conceived without original sin; we don’t have that luxury.

Another reason that things are so messed up is the high divorce rate. Not only does it potentially shrink the pool of eligible people to marry validly in the Catholic Church, but it has had the added effect of making people afraid of marriage in the first place. Additionally, in the effort to minister to divorced people, I have noticed that being divorced has moved from being the exception to becoming the baseline norm, which is problematic not only because it may not relate to the needs of the never-marrieds who are seeking to licitly enjoy the good joys of marriage and family life, but is the high divorce rate the norm that God intended?

And, of course, the bottom line is that in today’s world, it is hard to find a good, compatible practicing Catholic spouse. I know people may say there are millions of single people out there, but for people who are serious about their Catholic faith, we’re not interested in an ineligible person or “bad companion” who will lead us astray, and we are not willing to risk our own souls for a romantic fantasy effort to bring a “bad companion” back to the faith (and St. Paul somewhere in 2 Corinthians even warned against being unequally yoked).

Lucy,

Two websites that may help keep your sanity (one Catholic and one non-Catholic Christian, nevertheless I find nothing againt the Catholic faith in it):

nationalcatholicsingles.com/

thegiftofsingleness.blogspot.com/