A traditional catholic defends the Neocatechumenal Way

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Walking_Home said:
Yet I have provided the evidence to back up what I post. This evidence comes from people who have direct access to what the NCW is. You on the other hand -have stated – “I am not in The Way, nor do I know anyone who is,” — shoot blanks.
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WH, having a discussion about these kind of issues should be enlightening to all if done in a proper spirit.

Even if you are right about everything, your response to Indyann is less than charitable. If you have not love, you have nothing.

I don’t judge you in any way, but please ask the Lord to help you speak in a spirit of love to the brothers and sisters who post here.

🙂
 
Earthen_Vessel said:
Yes, the Gospels do tell us those things. The Gospels also give us a Church imbued with the Holy Spirit.

So who interprets these scriptures for you? Who tells you what a false prophet and a false teacher is?

The answer, I believe, is the Holy Spirit acting through the Church. I noted that you brought up the Arian heresy and how so many were deceived. But I think what is most important to note about that episode in Church history is that the Holy Spirit acted through a great saint, St. Athanasius to correct the problem. St. Athanasius was Bishop of Alexandria, and as such, part of the Church heirarchy.

So I find it very paradoxical that the very deception you state, Arianism, was corrected by the Holy Spirt through His Church. It actually makes me more comfortable trusting what the Pope’s have to say about various charisms and movements.

I would heartily encourage reading and becoming knowledgeable of scripture, but I’m sure you also know that relying on what the scriptures say, by your own interpretation, can be very harmful. This is why we have a Church that teaches us and leads us into truth when it comes to issues of the faith and we must ultimately rely on the word of the Holy Father and the Magisterium of the Church.

Peace be with you.
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Yes the Holy Spirit acts thru the Church --and as our history shows it may take a future Council to suppress the the NCW error – as happened with the Arian heresy.
 
Earthen_Vessel said:
WH, having a discussion about these kind of issues should be enlightening to all if done in a proper spirit.

Even if you are right about everything, your response to Indyann is less than charitable. If you have not love, you have nothing.

I don’t judge you in any way, but please ask the Lord to help you speak in a spirit of love to the brothers and sisters who post here.

🙂
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My – how you “choose” who is less than “charitable”. Seems you have already done some “judging” of your own. After all you have just “judged” my response was “less than charitable” to Indyann.
May I kindly suggest you take a dose of your own medicine.
 
I find that many traditionalists highly supported Pope Benedict when he issued the Motu Proprio, when he celebrates ad orientum – in latin! --, when he distributes communion on the tongue on a kneeler, et cetera. They laud his leadership as impeccable and illustrative of traditional catholicism.

Yet when it comes to a statement that is not agreeable to them, the Pope is not very intelligent or capable of discerning the false prophets that they themselves have identifed for him. Maybe some day the poor misguided man will listen to the Holy Spirit like they do. :rolleyes:
 
Walking_Home said:
My – how you “choose” who is less than “charitable”. Seems you have already done some “judging” of your own. After all you have just “judged” my response was “less than charitable” to Indyann.
May I kindly suggest you take a dose of your own medicine.
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Well, you’re right. I don’t know what’s in your heart. You can answer to the One who knows the truth. I’ll leave it between you and God.
 
Walking_Home said:
As Catholics—we should all strive for error to be suppressed – those of us who haven’t fallen under the “Spirit of Vat II” – that is.
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Ahh, I see clearly now. So when we have a Church Council that irradicates the “error” of the Neocatechumenal Way, that will be considered a “good” Council.

But Vatican II is a “bad” Council.

And who decides such things as good and bad Church Councils? Message Board posters? This is absurd.
 
Earthen_Vessel said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home View Post
As Catholics—we should all strive for error to be suppressed – those of us who haven’t fallen under the “Spirit of Vat II” – that is.

Ahh, I see clearly now. So when we have a Church Council that irradicates the “error” of the Neocatechumenal Way, that will be considered a “good” Council.

But Vatican II is a “bad” Council.

And who decides such things as good and bad Church Councils? Message Board posters? This is absurd.
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It is apparent – you do not see as clearly as what you think. I said “Spirit of Vat II” Not Vat II. Difference being – “Spirit of Vat II” is what undermined the Council via false and confusing interpretations. Our Pope has referred to this “Spirit of Vat II” as the “anti-spirit” of the Council.
 
Walking_Home said:
It is apparent – you do not see as clearly as what you think. I said “Spirit of Vat II” Not Vat II. Difference being – “Spirit of Vat II” is what undermined the Council via false and confusing interpretations. Our Pope has referred to this “Spirit of Vat II” as the “anti-spirit” of the Council.
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I’m confused. Does the Pope know what he’s saying or doesn’t he? For instance, he supports the Neocatechumenal Way and you don’t. How do I know when the poor man is right? Is it when you support him?
 
Earthen_Vessel said:
I’m confused. Does the Pope know what he’s saying or doesn’t he? For instance, he supports the Neocatechumenal Way and you don’t. How do I know when the poor man is right? Is it when you support him?
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As I have said before --our Popes are human. The papacy does not immune them from being deceived. Arugello is a master of manipulation and deception — he may even outdo Arius.

Are you in the “Way”?
 
WH, you didn’t answer my question. Yes, the Pope’s human, but he also has special charisms as Pope that neither you nor I have.
 
Earthen_Vessel said:
WH, you didn’t answer my question. Yes, the Pope’s human, but he also has special charisms as Pope that neither you nor I have.
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The charism protects the Pope from teaching error —it does not protect him from being deceived by a false teacher/prophet.
 
Walking_Home said:
The charism protects the Pope from teaching error —it does not protect him from being deceived by a false teacher/prophet.
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You still haven’t told me how I know when he’s right? And I think most people would agree that if he is capable of being deceived by a false teacher or prophet, that he wouldn’t be immune from teaching error.

And in the case of the Neocatechumenal Way, he then wouldn’t be encouraging its members to continue to do what they are doing and sending them off to missions. That would be teaching error, wouldn’t it? Answer: Yes it would.
 
Earthen_Vessel said:
You still haven’t told me how I know when he’s right? And I think most people would agree that if he is capable of being deceived by a false teacher or prophet, that he wouldn’t be immune from teaching error.

And in the case of the Neocatechumenal Way, he then wouldn’t be encouraging its members to continue to do what they are doing and sending them off to missions. That would be teaching error, wouldn’t it? Answer: Yes it would.
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The Holy Spirit protects the Pope --himself from teaching error —it does not protect the laity, even priests from doing just that. We cannot apply the errors taught by laity/priests to the charism that protects the papacy. As I said prior --Arguello is a master at deception and manipulation. He has known just what to use to “impress” the Popes. He uses the very people who have fallen into the “Way” as instruments of deception and manipulation --to “parade” them in front of the papacy --when in truth Arguello is building his own “church” with him as head.
 
I’m asking you direct, simple questions and you’re not adressing them. You’re just diatribing against the Neocatechumenal Way. I’m not even here directly defending the Way. I’m questioning your logic and you’re not adressing my questions.
 
Earthen_Vessel said:
I’m asking you direct, simple questions and you’re not adressing them. You’re just diatribing against the Neocatechumenal Way. I’m not even here directly defending the Way. I’m questioning your logic and you’re not adressing my questions.
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What am I not addressing. I’ve already stated how the papacy is not protected from being deceived. Evidence points to the NCW being a mind control cult --used by Arguello to build his own “church” with himself as head. Being Catholic does not entail that we fall blind to the fact that deception on part of another can cause our Popes to err.
 
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