A World without Religion?

[BrassAnkles]

No, but you would be able to claim that America was a very dangerous place. If you want to throw statistics around, it might be a good idea to quote some actual studies:

Citing four different studies, Zuckerman states: “Murder rates are actually lower in more secular nations and higher in more religious nations where belief in God is widespread.” He also states: “Of the top 50 safest cities in the world, nearly all are in relatively non-religious countries.”

Within the United States, we see the same pattern. Citing census data, he writes: “And within America, the states with the highest murder rates tend to be the highly religious, such as Louisiana and Alabama, but the states with the lowest murder rates tend to be the among the least religious in the country, such as Vermont and Oregon.”

And these findings are not limited to murder rates, as rates of all violent crime tend to be higher in “religious” states. Zuckerman also points out that atheists are very much under-represented in the American prison population (only 0.2%). pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/Zuckerman_on_Atheism.pdf

Now that isn’t posted to try and prove that people with religion are more likely to be murderers or more likely to commit violent crime. I don’t think there’s a direct correlation. But if you keep coming up with unsubstantiated and ill informed comments, then this is the response you should expect.

Perhaps you could answer a question| Are you a good person because you are Catholic or are you a good person and a Catholic?

:

America is a very dangerous place for human beings, most especially for ones in the womb.

FYI, the Catholic Church considers abortion unlawful homicide, so accurate homicide statistics must include this.

After all, when God judges our country he won’t care that Atheists have declared that abortion is not murder, would He?

 

[Bradski]

Living for today is not thinking about preserving our future. It’s selfish thought.

I can see why you might think that. That overfishing, or ignoring global warming or de-forestation with no thought of the future would be a problem. But do you see a link there with people who have no religion?

 

[cena]

No, but you would be able to claim that America was a very dangerous place. If you want to throw statistics around, it might be a good idea to quote some actual studies:

Citing four different studies, Zuckerman states: “Murder rates are actually lower in more secular nations and higher in more religious nations where belief in God is widespread.” He also states: “Of the top 50 safest cities in the world, nearly all are in relatively non-religious countries.”

Within the United States, we see the same pattern. Citing census data, he writes: “And within America, the states with the highest murder rates tend to be the highly religious, such as Louisiana and Alabama, but the states with the lowest murder rates tend to be the among the least religious in the country, such as Vermont and Oregon.”

And these findings are not limited to murder rates, as rates of all violent crime tend to be higher in “religious” states. Zuckerman also points out that atheists are very much under-represented in the American prison population (only 0.2%). pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/Zuckerman_on_Atheism.pdf

Now that isn’t posted to try and prove that people with religion are more likely to be murderers or more likely to commit violent crime. I don’t think there’s a direct correlation. But if you keep coming up with unsubstantiated and ill informed comments, then this is the response you should expect.

Perhaps you could answer a question| Are you a good person because you are Catholic or are you a good person and a Catholic?

:

Is this including Muslim countries? Most of the civil wars in the world have muslims on one side

What about Malta? Most of its citizens are Catholic.

 

[Bradski]

After all, when the world judges our country he won’t care that Atheists have declared that abortion is not murder, would He?

You should spend a little time on the Internet checking to see how the figure stack up before making, as I said, unsubstantiated comments. Google, as they say, is your friend.

Who’s having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as “Born-again/Evangelical”. antiochian.org/node/16950

Note that Catholics are 24% of the U.S. population yet have over 31% of the abortions. So when the ‘world judges your country’, where do you think they’ll see the biggest problem?

 

[BrassAnkles]

You should spend a little time on the Internet checking to see how the figure stack up before making, as I said, unsubstantiated comments. Google, as they say, is your friend.

Who’s having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as “Born-again/Evangelical”. antiochian.org/node/16950

Note that Catholics are 24% of the U.S. population yet have over 31% of the abortions. So when the ‘world judges your country’, where do you think they’ll see the biggest problem?

You are confused my friend, I never stated that Christians did not do wrong.

Also, this has nothing to do with the fact that the US is still among the most violent countries in the world. On the contrary the least violent countries are the most Catholic ones. You country is more violent though. No wonder with the propagation of Atheism.

 

[Bradski]

Is this including Muslim countries? Most of the civil wars in the world have muslims on one side.

I was quoting murder rates for western nations. If you check the rate in Muslim countries, it’s lower:

'Muslim countries are low on the “anomie” that leads to high murder rates (a 2.1 percent murder rate in Muslim nations compared to an 11 percent rate in non Muslim countries.'Islam: new study finds similarities and differences between Muslim and non-Muslim societies

 

[cena]

I was quoting murder rates for western nations. If you check the rate in Muslim countries, it’s lower:

'Muslim countries are low on the “anomie” that leads to high murder rates (a 2.1 percent murder rate in Muslim nations compared to an 11 percent rate in non Muslim countries.'Islam: new study finds similarities and differences between Muslim and non-Muslim societies

is the death penalty considered murder? Because some extreme groups stone women for really minor stuff.

What about abortion and euthanasia?

 

[Bradski]

You are confused my friend, I never stated that Christians did not do wrong.

No-one is confused. No-one thought that you said anything of the sort. But this is what you did say:

If we could get atheists to stop killing children or supporting said we could have a more peaceful world.

Now if ‘atheists’ did stop having abortions (and atheists represent only about 4% of the total US population so the proportion of abortions is equally tiny), then Catholics would still be having almost one third of them. Let’s face the facts, shall we? Catholics, as a group, have more abortions than any other group.

Let’s have some honesty here. Where do you see the greater problem?

Also, this has nothing to do with the fact that the US is still among the most violent countries in the world. On the contrary the least violent countries are the most Catholic ones.

Do you have access to any sort of internet search facility? I’m not sure where you pull these facts and figures from (I would make a suggestion, but it would be impolite). The top ten safest countries are Iceland, Denmark, Austria, New Zealand, Switzerland, Finland, Canada, Japan, Belgium and Norway. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index

How many of those are Catholic? (I’ll give you a clue: not many).

You country is more violent though. No wonder with the propagation of Atheism.

My country? Comes in at number 17. Compared to the US on…let me check…number 101. Just after Bangladesh and Haiti. But one ahead of Angola, which must bring on a warm glow of satisfaction.

 

[Karen107]

I can see why you might think that. That overfishing, or ignoring global warming or de-forestation with no thought of the future would be a problem. But do you see a link there with people who have no religion?

Yes, there are a lot of people who idolize their ‘things’ such as ipods, music idols, tattoos. alcohol, buying fast food, fancy cars and partying rather than living simply for God and our world. I imagine John Lennon himself satisfied his own personal needs before the needs of others. The US is a nation of wasteful people and this something our faith tells us not to do. Catholics are speaking out on this as well on a global scale. The Pope has spoken out on this such as meeting the needs of the worlds poor and not being wasteful and what does Rush Limbaugh do? Criticizes him for doing so. We are not isolated on an island. Everything we do is interconnected with others and if we don’t consider our actions with regards to our future we’ve ruined it for those who follow. Here again it’s not about us it’s about the needs of the other. God made Adam (Man) caretaker of the planet so this is very biblical. We have so many affluent in this country and affluency breeds evil. We have a country full of people who are living in the moment like the lyrics in the song says which will leave a bleak future for the generations to come.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Perhaps you could answer a question| Are you a good person because you are Catholic or are you a good person and a Catholic?

:

A religious person has more reason to be good than a non-religious person.

There is nothing in atheism that encourages virtue or decency in our relations with each other. There is no moral imperative to be good other than the one an atheist chooses to follow; or the atheist may follow no moral imperative at all, since atheism tells us nothing about morality except that whatever it is, it doesn’t come from God since there is no God.

so the atheist is free to make up his own morality as he goes along, and he has no mandate from outside himself to do good and avoid evil other than the civil laws of the land and any influences others may have with him. The religious person has these things too, but he has more. He has the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the promise that one way or another, at the end of his life, he will be held accountable for his thoughts and deeds.

Religious people can sin, and they can acknowledge their sins, repent, and strive to do better. There is no mandate from atheism to do any of these things, and because there is no belief that they will be held accountable at the end of our lives, atheists are free to hope that whatever they can get away with they will not be held accountable for at the end.

So yes, I think I could do some good things without being a Catholic, but I do believe I would in the end lose my soul by not being a Catholic. What I hope is that by being a Catholic I have a better chance of not losing my soul than losing it.

“The atheists are for the most part impudent and misguided scholars who reason badly, and who not being able to understand the creation, the origin of evil, and other difficulties, have recourse to the hypothesis of the eternity of things and of inevitability….That was how things went with the Roman Senate which was almost entirely composed of atheists in theory and in practice, that is to say, who believed in neither a Providence nor a future life; this senate was an assembly of philosophers, of sensualists and ambitious men, all very dangerous men, who ruined the republic." (from Voltaire’s essay “On Atheism”).

breitbart.com/national-security/2014/12/24/religious-people-much-happier-than-others-new-study-shows/

 

[Linusthe2nd]

youtube.com/watch?v=dQ5QG3MUTtg

Richard Dawkins in this 9 minute interview says a world without religion would have as a high a moral ground and be better than a world with religion.

Agree or disagree? Your thoughts?

Dawkins is just silly, don’t know why anyone pays attention to him.

But Fr. Robert Hugh Benson wrote a novel, The Dawn of All, just reissued, which portrays a world of the future in which religion is practically nonexistent. Check Amozon.

Pax
Linus2nd

 

[Bradski]

…from Voltaire’s essay "On Atheism.

I’ll see your Voltaire quote on atheism and raise you one of his on Christianity:

“Christianity is without a doubt the most ridiculous, the most absurd, and the most bloody religion that has ever infected the world.”

 

[BrassAnkles]

No-one is confused. No-one thought that you said anything of the sort. But this is what you did say:

Now if ‘atheists’ did stop having abortions (and atheists represent only about 4% of the total US population so the proportion of abortions is equally tiny), then Catholics would still be having almost one third of them. Let’s face the facts, shall we? Catholics, as a group, have more abortions than any other group.

Let’s have some honesty here. Where do you see the greater problem?

Do you have access to any sort of internet search facility? I’m not sure where you pull these facts and figures from (I would make a suggestion, but it would be impolite). The top ten safest countries are Iceland, Denmark, Austria, New Zealand, Switzerland, Finland, Canada, Japan, Belgium and Norway. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index

How many of those are Catholic? (I’ll give you a clue: not many).

My country? Comes in at number 17. Compared to the US on…let me check…number 101. Just after Bangladesh and Haiti. But one ahead of Angola, which must bring on a warm glow of satisfaction.

Atheists started abortion and currently promote it worldwide, so yes they are the most to blame.

The homicide statistics are calculated by dividing the number of deaths due to homicide by the population and then mutiplying by 100,000. YOU CAN DUPLICATE ALL OF MY CALCULATIONS BY LOOKING UP ABORTION STATISTICS AND WORLD POPULATIONS.

 

[Bradski]

Atheists started abortion and currently promote it worldwide, so yes they are the most to blame.

The homicide statistics are calculated by dividing the number of deaths due to homicide by the population and then mutiplying by 100,000. YOU CAN DUPLICATE ALL OF MY CALCULATIONS BY LOOKING UP ABORTION STATISTICS AND WORLD POPULATIONS.

You are not having a very good strike rate so far and I don’t think that it’s going to improve.

Can you tell me which atheists you think started abortion? And while you look this up, have a think about Roe v Wade when it was decided by the U.S. Supreme Court that abortion was to be legalised. It was by a majority of 7 to 2. Out of those seven who said it was OK, how many of them do you think were atheists? Here’s another clue: none. They were all Presbyterians, Episcopalians, a Methodist and, unfortunately for you, one Catholic.

Do you know the best way to cut down on one third of all abortions in the US? Make it illegal for Catholics to have them.

Any comment on the figures on dangerous countries by the way?

 

[BrassAnkles]

You are not having a very good strike rate so far and I don’t think that it’s going to improve.

Can you tell me which atheists you think started abortion? And while you look this up, have a think about Roe v Wade when it was decided by the U.S. Supreme Court that abortion was to be legalised. It was by a majority of 7 to 2. Out of those seven who said it was OK, how many of them do you think were atheists? Here’s another clue: none. They were all Presbyterians, Episcopalians, a Methodist and, unfortunately for you, one Catholic.

Do you know the best way to cut down on one third of all abortions in the US? Make it illegal for Catholics to have them.

Any comment on the figures on dangerous countries by the way?

Roe vs Wade was passed due to falsified abortion statistics, provided by godless persons. Planned Parenthood among others had a part in this, I recommend you research their history.

Also, there are plenty of godless “religious” persons out there, and Jesus spoke of this often in the Bible. I recommend you read it.

As far the homicide statistics go, no else is having the difficulty you are having nor do I think you are unintelligent so it must be something else.

 

[cena]

You are not having a very good strike rate so far and I don’t think that it’s going to improve.

Can you tell me which atheists you think started abortion? And while you look this up, have a think about Roe v Wade when it was decided by the U.S. Supreme Court that abortion was to be legalised. It was by a majority of 7 to 2. Out of those seven who said it was OK, how many of them do you think were atheists? (he’s another clue: none? They were all Presbyterians, Episcopalians, a Methodist and, unfortunately for you, one Catholic).

Do you know the best way to cut down on one third of all abortions in the US? Make it illegal for Catholics to have them.

Any comment on the figures on dangerous countries by the way?

There are a lot of Catholics that disobey Church teachings (like on contraception). It isn’t the Church or the Catholic religion that makes people want abortions. I don’t think that is what you are trying to say I just wanted to make that clear.

In China there I have heard over 160 million girls are “missing” due to sex selection abortion. Not that China is atheist (the people have religions but what about the government? I don’t know) but it isn’t Christians who started it in other places in the world

 

[Bradski]

Roe vs Wade was passed due to falsified abortion statistics, provided by godless persons. Planned Parenthood among others had a part in this, I recommend you research their history.

Maybe you can educate us on this and point us to some information so we can all make some informed decisions. Whilst bearing in mind that the Supreme Court made it’s decision based on the rights to privacy, not on abortion statistics. Perhaps you were unaware of this.

Also, there are plenty of godless “religious” persons out there, and Jesus spoke of this often in the Bible. I recommend you read it.

Now, no redirection please, Brass. You said that atheists started abortion and were responsible for it. I’ve pointed out that it is legal in your country based on a decision made by seven Christians. If it was seven atheists, or if there were just one or two on the Court, then you might have a point. A very bad one, but a point nevertheless. I have also pointed out that the vast majority people having abortions in the US (and quite probably world wide) are Christians. And just about one third of those in the US are Catholic. Why doesn’t the church make it a rule that Catholics can’t have abortion? Or make it a mortal sin if they do.

And which atheists started abortion?

As far the homicide statistics go, no else is having the difficulty you are having nor do I think you are unintelligent so it must be something else.

You are going to have to explain to me just what on earth you think is causing me difficulty. If you’d like to refute your earlier statement that the safest countries are Catholic, then let me know which ones. Or I’m going to put it down as you blowing smoke.

 

[cena]

Maybe you can educate us on this and point us to some information so we can all make some informed decisions. Whilst bearing in mind that the Supreme Court made it’s decision based on the rights to privacy, not on abortion statistics. Perhaps you were unaware of this.

Now, no redirection please, Brass. You said that atheists started abortion and were responsible for it. I’ve pointed out that it is legal in your country based on a decision made by seven Christians. If it was seven atheists, or if there were just one or two on the Court, then you might have a point. A very bad one, but a point nevertheless. I have also pointed out that the vast majority people having abortions in the US (and quite probably world wide) are Christians. And just about one third of those in the US are Catholic. Why doesn’t the church make it a rule that Catholics can’t have abortion? Or make it a mortal sin if they do.

And which atheists started abortion?

You are going to have to explain to me just what on earth you think is causing me difficulty. If you’d like to refute your earlier statement that the safest countries are Catholic, then let me know which ones. Or I’m going to put it down as you blowing smoke.

The Church didn’t just make it a mortal sin, they made it an excommunication if someone gets one, advises one, very directly pays for one (not like in taxes), or directly procures one.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I’ll see your Voltaire quote on atheism and raise you one of his on Christianity:

“Christianity is without a doubt the most ridiculous, the most absurd, and the most bloody religion that has ever infected the world.”

Well, of course I’ll see your Voltaire and raise you the millions of murders accomplished by atheist rulers in the 20th Century alone.

Voltaire never lived to see a world consumed by bloodshed as ours, mostly due not to Christians but to men who have no moral foundation in their lives because they don’t believe a Foundation even exists.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I’ll see your Voltaire quote on atheism and raise you one of his on Christianity:

“Christianity is without a doubt the most ridiculous, the most absurd, and the most bloody religion that has ever infected the world.”

Are you going to answer post # 52?