A World without Religion?

[Oreoracle]

Thank you for telling me what I believe. There I was believing that I believe something completely different.

Not at all! I was only removing all the candy-coating from your post. Sweets are bad for you, my friend.

I will try to expand on my comments.

Given the reality of God, Dawkins makes no sense to me.
The man appears to have no interest in subjecting himself to what is Divine truth.
He spews nonsense, probably like many others in a quest for honour.

We will have to agree to disagree as to whether or not he spews nonsense, but I agree that he has, as you say, no interest in pursuing a divine truth. No surprises there, as he doesn’t believe in one.

Is he a glory-seeker? I don’t know. I lack the power to divine people’s intentions as you do, it seems. Personally, I don’t care whether he seeks glory or not. It doesn’t invalidate anything he says. In any case, people acquire glory when they say something that truly resonates with people. If I were a Christian, it would concern me more that his message resonates with so many people than his intentions for speaking out would.

The bottom line is that we are all called by God to fulfill His purposes.
How we do this is up to us - either directly in seeking Him and spreading His word or perhaps as a foil, challenging people to find truth rather than facile explanations.

We involuntarily act in accord with God’s will. Translation: We are guinea pigs. Check. We have various roles, and Dawkins’ role is apparently to serve as an example of what someone shouldn’t become. Translation: This particular guinea pig, Dawkins, is meant to be the public spectacle he is. He was destined to spew nonsense, as you would put it. Check. And of course we have the last, unstated premise that Dawkins will be punished for his actions even though he served a vital part of God’s plan. Like any cattle, he will be slaughtered no matter how useful he was and was always meant to be.

So by all means, tell me where I misinterpreted your “reflection”.

 

[edwest2]

I wonder what god the Bolsheviks were dying for. In the 1960s, the Government of the United States told us we were in a struggle against “Godless Communism.” Now if the Russians and those in Eastern Europe can turn back to God, so can we.

I heard Imagine by John Lennon. His utopian atheist lyrics were as pointless then as they are today.

biblehub.com/psalms/14-1.htm

biblehub.com/psalms/14-2.htm

Human nature has not changed since the first days of human existence. That burden can be lifted by God. And when you die, you will be fairly judged by Him.

God bless,
Ed

 

[cena]

Not at all! I was only removing all the candy-coating from your post. Sweets are bad for you, my friend.

We will have to agree to disagree as to whether or not he spews nonsense, but I agree that he has, as you say, no interest in pursuing a divine truth. No surprises there, as he doesn’t believe in one.

Is he a glory-seeker? I don’t know. I lack the power to divine people’s intentions as you do, it seems. Personally, I don’t care whether he seeks glory or not. It doesn’t invalidate anything he says. In any case, people acquire glory when they say something that truly resonates with people. If I were a Christian, it would concern me more that his message resonates with so many people than his intentions for speaking out would.

We involuntarily act in accord with God’s will. Translation: We are guinea pigs. Check. We have various roles, and Dawkins’ role is apparently to serve as an example of what someone shouldn’t become. Translation: This particular guinea pig, Dawkins, is meant to be the public spectacle he is. He was destined to spew nonsense, as you would put it. Check. And of course we have the last, unstated premise that Dawkins will be punished for his actions even though he served a vital part of God’s plan. Like any cattle, he will be slaughtered no matter how useful he was and was always meant to be.

So by all means, tell me where I misinterpreted your “reflection”.

We choose to follow God’s laws or disobey them. We don’t involuntarily follow them. Is God taking over your body and forcing you against your will to go to Church or anything else?

 

[edwest2]

We choose to follow God’s laws or disobey them. We don’t involuntarily follow them. Is God taking over your body and forcing you against your will to go to Church or anything else?

God will not force you to love Him. The same with other human beings.

Ed

 

[cena]

That is incorrect.
All communists or all forms of communism don’t believe that “taking out religion makes things better.”
Christian communism, for example, is based on the view that the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth compels Christians to support communism as an ideal social system.
Communism isn’t based on a lack of religion, it’s mainly based on replacing capitalism with socialism. It’s based on common ownership and a lack of social classes.
An ideal that Jesus would most likely approve.
A communist might be Atheist, or they might be God-believing. Just as in any other political regime.

Stalin may have punished people who went against the state…but that still does not mean he did it because of “lack of religion”.
The main reason Jesus was crucified, after all, was because he was going “against the state”. In many countries, going against the state has gotten people killed.

Stalin may have been a greedy, power-hungry, heartless leader, I don’t know that much about him. And he and other leaders like him may have been responsible for many deaths.

But as I’ve pointed out…religious leaders have been this way as well, and also responsible for many, many cruel and heartless deaths.
Religion may have not turned Stalin immoral. But as we’ve seen, it has inspired many others to act immorally.
So we can’t blame lack of religion for this kind of behavior because people on both sides of God-belief have been murderers.

.

That quote from Stalin proves he ended up an atheist.

The Church is against socialism too, communism, socialism and Christianity aren’t compatible no matter what a small group thinks.

Yes, but you claimed taking out religion would make the world better as if religion was the only factor in those leader’s bad decisions.

 

[Bradski]

Christians: Did I tell you about my list? Because I have a list, and I daresay I’ll be checking it twice.

Thanks for that. It made me laugh and I think I needed something to lighten my mood. I’d started to become a little cranky. Much better now.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

That quote from Stalin proves he ended up an atheist.

Hitler

“The religions are all alike, no matter what they call themselves. They have no future – certainly none for the Germans. Fascism, if it likes, may come to terms with the Church. So shall I. Why not? That will not prevent me from tearing up Christianity root and branch and annihilating it in Germany.”

Stalin
“We guarantee the right of every citizen to combat by argument, propaganda, and agitation all religion. The Communist Party cannot be neutral toward religion. It stands for science, and all religion is opposed to science.”

Mao
“Religion is poison.”

 

[BrassAnkles]

That quote from Stalin proves he ended up an atheist.

The Church is against socialism too, communism, socialism and Christianity aren’t compatible no matter what a small group thinks.

Yes, but you claimed taking out religion would make the world better as if religion was the only factor in those leader’s bad decisions.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . We involuntarily act in accord with God’s will. Translation: We are guinea pigs. Check. We have various roles, and Dawkins’ role is apparently to serve as an example of what someone shouldn’t become. Translation: This particular guinea pig, Dawkins, is meant to be the public spectacle he is. He was destined to spew nonsense, as you would put it. Check. And of course we have the last, unstated premise that Dawkins will be punished for his actions even though he served a vital part of God’s plan. Like any cattle, he will be slaughtered no matter how useful he was and was always meant to be.

So by all means, tell me where I misinterpreted your “reflection”.

You make me sad. I will forgo responding to the first part of your post.

We voluntarily decide what role we will play in life, having been given different gifts and specific life circumstances. You cannot possibly disagree with this.

As I said, Dawkins is a tragic figure, a Don Quixote who chooses to fight an imaginary dragon that he sees in religion. He is not so much a public spectacle as he appears to be one in the reality of his existence. He is not destined to do anything; he has been given a choice, which he pursues to its end in becoming who he is for all eternity. His punishment, if any, is in becoming the person he has chosen to be. We are not like cattle; although everything we have been given will be taken back in time, the truth of our being in relation with God, who is Love, is ever-present.

 

[tomberg]

That quote from Stalin proves he ended up an atheist.

The Church is against socialism too, communism, socialism and Christianity aren’t compatible no matter what a small group thinks.

Yes, but you claimed taking out religion would make the world better as if religion was the only factor in those leader’s bad decisions.

The church was also against representative forms of government such as democracy. I will also point out that The Church is opposed to laissez faire capitalism and has been from the very start.

 

[Bradski]

Richard Dawkins is the quintessential fool…etc etc

If someone says 'hey Bradski, I’m not exactly sure what an ad hominem might be - do you have an example?, then I will link to the post from which the above quote comes.

Bernard Nathanson, a Jewish atheist was instrumental with Planned Parenthood in providing false information to the Supreme Court.

You are missing the point. The Supreme Court, Christians all, made their decision based on the constitutionality of state abortion laws. They didn’t change the law because of any fudged figures. You are scraping the bottom of a very large barrel trying to get atheism involved in any way in this.

The founder of Planned Parenthood…

Good grief, what on earth has this to do with anything?

Finally, you do understand that abortion is considered homicide by the Catholic Church and is in the catechism.

And a mortal sin to boot. You seem to be missing the point that I am INCLUDING abortion as one of your problems, not excluding it. And you have specifically said that atheism is the problem. Yet almost all abortions are carried out on Christian women almost certainly by Christian doctors (unless there’s some League of Atheist Medical Practitioners that they all go to) and the majority of the abortions are procured by Catholic women. And you have the nerve, the effrontery, to claim that it is atheism that is the problem.

Abortion is not the policy of the Catholic Church, but is the policy of the American sexularists, who are dominantly atheist/agnostic.

Then look to your own house to fix the problem! Abortion, last time I checked, is not compulsory. But the largest religious group of women who have abortions are Catholic. Yet you join with Brassy to blame atheists and agnostics.

It’s like the majority of your family are convicted thieves and frauds yet you blame that liberal family down the road for it. It’s your problem, not anyone else’s. It’s Christians who changed the law. Christian judges appointed by Christian Presidents. It’s Christians who uphold the law. It’s Christians who perform the operations. It’s the vast majority of Christians who seek abortions. And the majority of those women are Catholic.

Face the facts, Charles. Your risible attempts to deflect the blame to some ephemeral ‘sexularists’, and combo of atheists and agnostics is laughable.

 

[Aloysium]

Originally Posted by Aloysium: Blah, blah, blah . . .

Hmm . . . I see some quotes are being attributed to me that belong to someone else. Not that I disagree, I just don’t want it to appear that I plagiarized.
Yes, I am all about the ad hominem, finding the reality of the person transcendent to and far more interesting than merely the ideas they hold.
Not being unfamiliar with foolishness, I know one when I see one.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

I see no reason why these are not religions. Unless we admit a strict understanding of the definition.

What are *you *using as your definition? Knowing that might help in understanding your statements in previous messages.

 

[Bradski]

Hmm . . . I see some quotes are being attributed to me that belong to someone else. Not that I disagree, I just don’t want it to appear that I plagiarized.
Yes, I am all about the ad hominem, finding the reality of the person transcendent to and far more interesting than merely the ideas they hold.

Post 73? It was yours and not a quote?

Anyway, I’m guilty as the next man at tossing out a good ad hominem now and then. Sometimes it is valid to point out that someone is an idiot without having to explain why.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Then look to your own house to fix the problem! Abortion, last time I checked, is not compulsory. But the largest religious group of women who have abortions are Catholic. Yet you join with Brassy to blame atheists and agnostics.

Can you cite your source? At the following website a rather different picture emerges with 27% Catholic and 42% Protestant.

operationrescue.org/about-abortion/abortions-in-america/

There are no figures to my knowledge for atheist/agnostic women having abortions. But the trivialization of life through abortion is an atheistic viewpoint simply because atheists don’t believe there is an immortal life at risk. Atheists by and large are materialists who just believe we die and go nowhere, so what’s the big deal if you have an abortion? It is a fundamental assumption of atheism that life really doesn’t matter all that much, and that is why you see Hitler, Stalin, and Mao and their crusade against religion resulting in so many millions of needless deaths.

Ask all those Catholic women who have had an abortion if they sleep well. Ask them if they are sorry for what they have done to their child. Ask them if they grieve at all. If they are really Catholic, I suspect they would give anything to undo what they have done. Maybe not all, because there are really bad Catholics in the world who should stop thinking of themselves as Catholics until they repent and beg the forgiveness of Mary and her Child in the manger.

 

[Oreoracle]

So in other words, it’s more of a concern that atheists/agnostics/secularists support the option of abortion than it is that Catholics actually have abortions more frequently. Rhetoric trumps actions, evidently.

 

[Bradski]

Good Lord, you just can’t help yourself. Even thought you admit that at least a quarter of abortions are performed on Catholic women, you STILL insist that it’s an atheist problem.

You really can’t face up to the facts of the matter in any way at all.

And here’s the link: antiochian.org/node/16950

 

[edwest2]

Hitler

“The religions are all alike, no matter what they call themselves. They have no future – certainly none for the Germans. Fascism, if it likes, may come to terms with the Church. So shall I. Why not? That will not prevent me from tearing up Christianity root and branch and annihilating it in Germany.”

Stalin
“We guarantee the right of every citizen to combat by argument, propaganda, and agitation all religion. The Communist Party cannot be neutral toward religion. It stands for science, and all religion is opposed to science.”

Mao
“Religion is poison.”

Yes. Good quotes. The State is greater. Man is greater.

Ed

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Good Lord, you just can’t help yourself. Even thought you admit that at least a quarter of abortions are performed on Catholic women, you STILL insist that it’s an atheist problem.

You really can’t face up to the facts of the matter in any way at all.

And here’s the link: antiochian.org/node/16950

Here’s a quote from the source you cited.

“Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions.”

So what percent of Americans have no religious affiliation, and what percent of them are atheist/agnostic? This is the dark secret no one ever tells.

religioustolerance.org/abo_fact4.htm

Look at the index for women who have no religious affiliation. They are four times as likely as Catholic women to have an abortion.

 

[edwest2]

Good Lord, you just can’t help yourself. Even thought you admit that at least a quarter of abortions are performed on Catholic women, you STILL insist that it’s an atheist problem.

You really can’t face up to the facts of the matter in any way at all.

And here’s the link: antiochian.org/node/16950

A few facts about abortion in America during the 5 year plan period, 1968 to 1973.

catholicnewsagency.com/resources/abortion/articles-and-addresses/an-ex-abortionist-speaks/

It was not the will of the people.

Ed