A World without Religion?

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AnimalSpirits said:
I’m arguing that objective moral right does not exist, and wishing for it will not make it so.
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Then of course you are arguing for the biggest guns to prevail.

In my book, the biggest gun is carried by God.

So the debate comes back to God, doesn’t it?

If there is no religion, somebody’s will other than God’s must prevail.

My personal guess is that it will be the devil’s. :eek:
 
davidv said:
So, why should a particular observer’s declaration be accepted?
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If you agree on a common, or at least overlapping, set of principles than maybe they can convince you. If not, then you’ve got a disagreement that can’t be resolved.
 
AnimalSpirits said:
Rape is quite illegal in India. Rape occurs far too often, but you could say that of US college campuses as well.
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Sorry, I entered the conversation late in the game, but I thought you were talking about “bodily autonomy,” not rape.
 
AnimalSpirits said:
We don’t actually disagree here, but for clarity: Causation implies correlation, the converse is not true.Thus the two are not equivalent. That’s all I was getting at.

And with Advil, you identify causation by clinical trials. Some get Advil, others get sugar pills. The difference between the two groups is the effect of the treatment. It’s not possible to reach this level of rigor on the question of casual sex.
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My dear friend, will you spend the rest of your earthly existence arguing with religious folks and mincing words? You are obviously an intelligent person, but why waste your precious time if in the end all will be as though nothing ever was? If Atheists somehow managed to convince the whole world that God did not exist, would it really matter? When your life has vanished as though you never were, and every subsequent life afterward, what difference would it truly make? For even difference implies meaning, but your worldview is utterly devoid of meaning.

What has led you to lose your Catholic faith? Is it some special sin you enjoy? Or is it the pain of suffering? Your intellectual pride? God help you. 😦
 
davidv said:
That not a very useful position to be in.
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But it seems to be the position of the world in which we exists (note: I’m being descriptive, not prescriptive).

It’s not unusual for groups to come to disagreement on various topics (land disputes, rights to water, disagreements on how people will be governed, so on) in which competing interest and fundamental disagreements cause the groups to come to an impasse in negotiations. Members of competing groups are not always interested in coming to mutual agreement. Sometimes when this occurs there may be a challenge to something in which members of the group have interest to motivate change. Impacting economic interest, civil disobedience, bad public PR, and even at times threats, fighting, and killing. Once some of these actions start its a bit challenging to interject well formed arguments and logic discussion into the interactions to steer things in another direction.

I had a related discussion in with Charlemagne on a related thread.
 
CommonWeal said:
Sorry, I entered the conversation late in the game, but I thought you were talking about “bodily autonomy,” not rape.
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The example in question was rape, but I extended it to bodily autonomy to explain why societies choose to criminalize rape. I assumed you were referring to India’s substantial problem with rape to show that they didn’t value the right to control your body in the same way that we did in the west- which was definitely a huge leap from what you actually wrote. So my appologies, should have sought clarification.
 
AnimalSpirits said:
The example in question was rape, but I extended it to bodily autonomy to explain why societies choose to criminalize rape. I assumed you were referring to India’s substantial problem with rape to show that they didn’t value the right to control your body in the same way that we did in the west- which was definitely a huge leap from what you actually wrote. So my appologies, should have sought clarification.
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Actually, I was thinking about how they pluck out your eyeballs after a fatal car accident.
 
davidv said:
That not a very useful position to be in.
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Which is unfortunate, but it’s not reality’s job to make things easy for us. Either we live in the world I’ve described with no higher power or we don’t and the world is different than I’ve described. But how we feel about it doesn’t seem to matter.
 
AnimalSpirits said:
Which is unfortunate, but it’s not reality’s job to make things easy for us. Either we live in the world I’ve described with no higher power or we don’t and the world is different than I’ve described. But how we feel about it doesn’t seem to matter.
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Then what are you doing here at Catholic Answers if it doesn’t seem to matter?

This brings us back to a point made somewhat earlier in this thread. If God does not exist, why does the atheist exert himself so strenuously to prove that notion to others and to himself?

Certainly it must matter.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Then what are you doing here at Catholic Answers if it doesn’t seem to matter?

This brings us back to a point made somewhat earlier in this thread. If God does not exist, why does the atheist exert himself so strenuously to prove that notion to others and to himself?

Certainly it must matter.
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Why do I do it? I have spare time at work and enjoy this sort of discussion. Why do “professional” atheists do it? A. Because belief religion leads people to certain real world conclusions discussed earlier and B. $$$$$$.

But I haven’t rejected objective reality, just that any sort of moral code exists in that reality. God still exists or he doesn’t, in an objective sense.
 
Clearly Bieber hasn’t totally thrown discipline to the wind- that or steroids accomplish a lot more than I thought. Lohan is a good example of the fact that currently available drugs have serious side effects and there are grave consequences associated with over consumption (and for some, any consumption is over consumption). But we were discussing a world where one could remove the prospect of weight gain with no direct side effects- hardly comparable.
 
AnimalSpirits said:
Clearly Bieber hasn’t totally thrown discipline to the wind- that or steroids accomplish a lot more than I thought. Lohan is a good example of the fact that currently available drugs have serious side effects and there are grave consequences associated with over consumption (and for some, any consumption is over consumption). But we were discussing a world where one could remove the prospect of weight gain with no direct side effects- hardly comparable.
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They are the best (?) examples of “eat, drink and be merry” and the fruit that it bears.
 
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