Abortion because of severe health issues

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goout said:
Um, yea, you have talking about what is impermissible in the name of gods and philosophies, while at the same time making moral assertions. (I assume you actually believe what you say is true? Correct if I am wrong)
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If you’re asking if I believe life begins at conception, yes I do. All I’m saying is that other people don’t believe that.
 
regression said:
So many people see abortion as the easy, compassionate thing to do.
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Most of them have never been in the position of actually carrying a child and then being told it won’t live after birth. People can talk all they want. When it’s their own child they may feel very different and regardless of how they feel, the decision would never be “easy”.
 
Hope_Philomena said:
If you’re asking if I believe life begins at conception, yes I do. All I’m saying is that other people don’t believe that.
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If other people don’t believe that, then they are wrong. Science shows that life does being at conception.
 
regression said:
In post number 41 you said: “Some women who get abortions do not see it as killing as they may not believe that life begins at conception.”

Whether a woman (or man) believes life begins at conception or not doesn’t change the fact that life does begin at conception.
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We’re not arguing about that. You don’t have to proclaim these things to me, you’re preaching to the choir.
 
regression said:
If other people don’t believe that, then they are wrong. Science shows that life does being at conception.
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I know Catholics love to proclaim who is right and who is wrong. But actually other people might believe that yes, a form of life begins, but not for instance the life of a fully human person with a soul that has personhood rights above the person of a woman.
 
I think the more compassionate thing to do would be to allow the baby to be born and have comfort measures such as pain meds and fluids available if lifesaving measures are not going to be attempted. This way the parents can say goodbye. Also, forgive me if I’m wrong, but aren’t aborted babies disposed of as medical waste? If the baby was born alive after being carried to term, the parents can have the comfort of a proper burial or cremation. This also allows the child to be baptized and affords other loved ones (friends, grandparents, siblings, etc.) the chance to say goodbye.
 
Hope_Philomena said:
I’m not forcing mine upon you, I’m sharing mine. I’m trying to get you to consider other’s opinions, not to change your opinions, but to consider that you may not be able to define an entire group of people (i.e. women who have had abortions) as having the same results and the same feelings.

If I were forcing my views, they would be law. Which is what you are trying to do, by making Christian beliefs be put into law.
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You make no sense whatsoever.

How can a system of laws exist if people do not have beliefs? That’s what laws are, beliefs about what is right and just put into practice. . 🤷
You seem to deny that anyone but yourself is allowed to have beliefs. That’s relativism. Or radical individualism. Or both.
 
Sy_Noe said:
I know Catholics love to proclaim who is right and who is wrong. But actually other people might believe a form of life begins but just not the life of a fully human person with a soul.
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But surely you understand what a unique set of dna is, correct?

Is that scientific reality now just another religious proclamation?

Science deniers…ack.
 
goout said:
You make no sense whatsoever.

How can a system of laws exist if people do not have beliefs? That’s what laws are, beliefs about what is right and just put into practice. . 🤷
You seem to deny that anyone but yourself is allowed to have beliefs. That’s relativism. Or radical individualism. Or both.
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Systems of laws based on a single religion are inherently biased. Not everyone is a Christian, not everyone believes what Christians believe is right. That’s why laws should not be based on religious view, but on consensus over every religion and lack thereof. If Christians were the only ones deciding the laws, then that would be a theocracy rather than a democracy.

So, I am not proclaiming that anyone but myself is allowed to have beliefs. Conversely, I am saying that everyone is allowed to have beliefs and everyone should be taken into at least some consideration rather than a single group of likeminded individuals (ex. Christians) If anything, you stated the exact opposite of what I believe.
 
Hope_Philomena said:
I’m not forcing mine upon you, I’m sharing mine. I’m trying to get you to consider other’s opinions, not to change your opinions, but to consider that you may not be able to define an entire group of people (i.e. women who have had abortions) as having the same results and the same feelings.

If I were forcing my views, they would be law. Which is what you are trying to do, by making Christian beliefs be put into law.
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Sometimes it does appear to me that Catholics are all for religious liberty when it comes to social issues as long as it is their views that are the law.
 
goout said:
But surely you understand what a unique set of dna is, correct?

Is that scientific reality now just another religious proclamation?

Science deniers…ack.
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Oh, you know where this is leading: Can we not get into the “when do we have a soul” discussion please. It’s a vicious cycle and no side will ever have any answers.
 
Well, this is turning into an interesting debate.

Grabs popcorn😉
 
goout said:
But surely you understand what a unique set of dna is, correct?

Is that scientific reality now just another religious proclamation?

Science deniers…ack.
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Science has yet to make a proclamation on ensoulment to my knowledge.
 
Sy_Noe said:
Plenty of people have faith in God and are religious who do not subscribe to your faith and religion nor its view that only yours is the one true faith. And that includes people in denominations that even your church considers to be Christian.
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Sy, Why do you keep saying that? Even my Church considers to be Christian?

I know there are plenty of people who disagree with me. I know their religions teach against mine. They are in the majority. It doesn’t make me wrong.

Did you notice this is a Catholic Forum?
 
Sy_Noe said:
I know Catholics love to proclaim who is right and who is wrong. But actually other people might believe that yes, a form of life begins, but not for instance the life of a fully human person with a soul that has personhood rights above the person of a woman.
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Personhood is not determined by science. Science shows us that when a sperm fertilizes an egg, a new, unique human being is created.
 
Sy_Noe said:
Science has yet to make a proclamation on ensoulment to my knowledge.
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Surely you have heard of the scientific terms “DNA” and “human”.

In good faith, can you apply those with commons sense? Or are concentric loops of logic needed to escape basic science?

Which term would you like to dilute?
DNA?
Human?

Go ahead.
 
Sy_Noe said:
I know Catholics love to proclaim who is right and who is wrong. But actually other people might believe that yes, a form of life begins, but not for instance the life of a fully human person with a soul that has personhood rights above the person of a woman.
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OK but as you cannot have one without the other? ie no unborn and thus no person. Not rocket science.

Actually as the adult person is able to think and decide and act? he or she has greater responsibility and power.

rights is an interesting word. personhood? Whatever does that mean please? A right over another person?

In truly civilised society the weak are protected by the strong

Oh and a basic ? re this thread. How can the drs say categorically that the baby will only live that long? They have often been so very wrong.
 
goout said:
Surely you have heard of the scientific terms “DNA” and “human”.

In good faith, can you apply those with commons sense? Or are concentric loops of logic needed to escape basic science?

Which term would you like to dilute?
DNA?
Human?

Go ahead.
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What in the world are you talking about?

Nobody is denying scientific fact. But science says nothing about the soul. What on earth are you trying to say? It’s like you’re arguing on a completely different forum and accidentally posted your reply here.
 
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