Abortion because of severe health issues

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Hope_Philomena said:
Systems of laws based on a single religion are inherently biased. Not everyone is a Christian, not everyone believes what Christians believe is right. That’s why laws should not be based on religious view, but on consensus over every religion and lack thereof. If Christians were the only ones deciding the laws, then that would be a theocracy rather than a democracy.

So, I am not proclaiming that anyone but myself is allowed to have beliefs. Conversely, I am saying that everyone is allowed to have beliefs and everyone should be taken into at least some consideration rather than a single group of likeminded individuals (ex. Christians) If anything, you stated the exact opposite of what I believe.
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Geez
Ok, not everyone is a Christian. But that’s not where your issue is.

Your issue is with other people “playing God” by enforcing their philosophies on others.

You have not addressed the issue, you go on dodging while throwing out your own philosophies as true and worthy of belief.

At least, we have not done the disrespect to you in return by shutting down your beliefs because they are, well, beliefs.
No, we disagree with them based on sound moral principles, not merely because they are your beliefs.
Dictatorship of Relativism. Arrogance. Intolerance.
Congrats.
 
Hope_Philomena said:
What in the world are you talking about?

Nobody is denying scientific fact. But science says nothing about the soul. What on earth are you trying to say? It’s like you’re arguing on a completely different forum and accidentally posted your reply here.
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Is it possible you don’t understand the points?
 
goout said:
Geez
Ok, not everyone is a Christian. But that’s not where your issue is.

Your issue is with other people “playing God” by enforcing their philosophies on others.

You have not addressed the issue, you go on dodging while throwing out your own philosophies as true and worthy of belief.

At least, we have not done the disrespect to you in return by shutting down your beliefs because they are, well, beliefs.
No, we disagree with them based on sound moral principles, not merely because they are your beliefs.
Dictatorship of Relativism. Arrogance. Intolerance.
Congrats.
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Okay, you can go ahead and say that I am playing God, because that seems to be the argument that you are so intent on winning.

I don’t think you are level-headed enough to be having this conversation. You seem to feel personally attacked, which is not my intention. I suggest you calm down before replying.
 
goout said:
Is it possible you don’t understand the points?
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Entirely possible but doubtful. If you want to explain your points again, by all means. I think I understand them, though.
 
It’s disheartening to see people who would like to be rational throw reason out the window, even in the light of well established science.

No one will ever prove ensoulment. That’s a matter of faith. Ok (take a deep breath…)

But Sy, there is a scientific reality staring you in the face which you are not addressing.
 
Rosebud77 said:
OK but as you cannot have one without the other? ie no unborn and thus no person. Not rocket science.

Actually as the adult person is able to think and decide and act? he or she has greater responsibility and power.

rights is an interesting word. personhood? Whatever does that mean please? A right over another person?

In truly civilised society the weak are protected by the strong

Oh and a basic ? re this thread. How can the drs say categorically that the baby will only live that long? They have often been so very wrong.
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In the US, a fetus does not have the same rights as a woman and abortion is not murder under the law. That’s what it means. It’s not always an easy task to balance rights though. US law attempts to do that however by allotting the woman the right to an unrestricted abortion only in the first trimester with state restrictions allowed afterwards.
 
Hope_Philomena said:
Entirely possible but doubtful. If you want to explain your points again, by all means. I think I understand them, though.
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No, why don’t you just go back and reread.

You dismiss other’s beliefs because they have them, and at the same time throw out your beliefs as true.

Human life is subject to your whim evidently.
 
goout said:
No, why don’t you just go back and reread.

You dismiss other’s beliefs because they have them, and at the same time throw out your beliefs as true.

Human life is subject to your whim evidently.
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I’ve reread but I still don’t see what point you’re trying to make.

You need to calm down.
 
Hope_Philomena said:
I’ve reread but I still don’t see what point you’re trying to make.

You need to calm down.
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I have a mum thanks.
are you going to address the point or not?
(I guess not)

Just for the record, Christians should leaven society with Christian belief, in legal circles, government service, etc…just like atheists try to do, agnostics, bhuddists, etc…
For Christians that includes the protection of all human beings regardless of viability or utility.
(lest we become subject to your “mass consensus”, which should terrify anyone with a conscience)
 
goout said:
I have a mum thanks.
are you going to address the point or not?
(I guess not)

Just for the record, Christians should leaven society with Christian belief, in legal circles, government service, etc…just like atheists try to do, agnostics, bhuddists, etc…
For Christians that includes the protection of all human beings regardless of viability or utility.
(lest we become subject to your “mass consensus”, which should terrify anyone with a conscience)
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Address… the point that you told me I don’t understand?
 
Sy_Noe said:
In the US, a fetus does not have the same rights as a woman and abortion is not murder under the law. That’s what it means. It’s not always an easy task to balance rights though. US law attempts to do that however by allotting the woman the right to an unrestricted abortion only in the first trimester with state restrictions allowed afterwards.
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America is wrong. So is the UK, and Ireland seems set on following soon. The law is amoral. Not immoral as that would take guts, but totally lacking in any morality. Convenience. Like eg the “Liverpool Pathway” was in the UK. Whcih was euthanasia by another name as this is murder ie infanticide by another name. Depersonlaising it by using words like foetus etc do not alter that fact.

A killing is committed .

And that has nothing to do with this thread in any way as I am sure you know. As Dickens says, “the law is a ***” ( meaning donkey)
 
Hope_Philomena said:
Systems of laws based on a single religion are inherently biased. Not everyone is a Christian, not everyone believes what Christians believe is right. That’s why laws should not be based on religious view, but on consensus over every religion and lack thereof. If Christians were the only ones deciding the laws, then that would be a theocracy rather than a democracy.

So, I am not proclaiming that anyone but myself is allowed to have beliefs. Conversely, I am saying that everyone is allowed to have beliefs and everyone should be taken into at least some consideration rather than a single group of likeminded individuals (ex. Christians) If anything, you stated the exact opposite of what I believe.
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Not everyone is a non Christian! So you think they should be able to do away with laws that are good for the sake of humanity just because they are based on God’s Laws for mankind. What about stealing, that’s based on the 10 Commandments. How would you like it if some thought we should do away with the laws against theft??? You OK with someone stealing your car, house, boat, bank account, whatever!!! God Bless, Memaw
 
regression said:
Thanks for the link, but I am unclear on what this act does. Can you explain more about it?
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If someone hasn’t already answered,

lifenews.com/2017/01/25/new-congressional-bill-protects-babies-who-are-born-alive-after-botched-abortions/

The problem as you know, doctors weren’t helping the aborted baby if they were delivered alive. They would just let them die, because death was the intent from the beginning. And you can expect, those babies, depending on the stage of development, would be there outside the body of the mom, screaming in pain till they died or if the doctor gave them a lethal shot of something to kill them. Late term abortions in particular is where they harvest organs and brain (cord) cells, for research. They deliver the child feet first, and as the base of the head appears, they take scissors and stab the base of the head and cut the spinal cord and harvest the brain cells.
 
Memaw said:
Not everyone is a non Christian! So you think they should be able to do away with laws that are good for the sake of humanity just because they are based on God’s Laws for mankind. What about stealing, that’s based on the 10 Commandments. How would you like it if some thought we should do away with the laws against theft??? You OK with someone stealing your car, house, boat, bank account, whatever!!! God Bless, Memaw
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Poor comparison. The abortion issue clearly has more and various sides to it among people, both those of faith and not. And not all people including those of faith hold to the Catholic view. Catholic women are free to follow the dictates of their faith and not abort.
 
Sy_Noe said:
Poor comparison. The abortion issue clearly has more and various sides to it among people, both those of faith and not. And not all people including those of faith hold to the Catholic view. Catholic women are free to follow the dictates of their faith and not abort.
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A human being is free to choose. 🤷 We have free will…
Where are you going with this?
 
Memaw said:
Not everyone is a non Christian! So you think they should be able to do away with laws that are good for the sake of humanity just because they are based on God’s Laws for mankind. What about stealing, that’s based on the 10 Commandments. How would you like it if some thought we should do away with the laws against theft??? You OK with someone stealing your car, house, boat, bank account, whatever!!! God Bless, Memaw
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Memaw, stealing is completely different. Most everyone agrees that stealing is wrong, regardless of their ethnicity or religion. You know very well that abortion is a much more complicated, heavy issue due to there being emotional and religious aspects.
 
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