S
Sy_Noe
Guest
A human being is free to choose.We have free will…
Where are you going with this?
Hope took us to where I was going with this.
- Status
G
goout
Guest
G
goout
Guest
This is a really troubling statement:
Both moral issues can be picked apart with semantics til one get’s dizzy from the circles.
The idea that abortion is any less rooted in morality because it is “complicated” is preposterous and terrifying. “Complications” are the perpetual excuse for moral vacillation. It’s infantile morality.
If nothing else, a crime as heinous as murder should be all the more clearly expressed in religious beliefs and expressed through emotions.
(Stealing, by the way, is spoken of every bit as precisely as murder in moral theology.)
So, again…
Justifying this statement is going to require heavy duty semantics. Debating what stealing means vs “taking out of need”. And killing vs murder. etc…
Both moral issues can be picked apart with semantics til one get’s dizzy from the circles.
The idea that abortion is any less rooted in morality because it is “complicated” is preposterous and terrifying. “Complications” are the perpetual excuse for moral vacillation. It’s infantile morality.
If nothing else, a crime as heinous as murder should be all the more clearly expressed in religious beliefs and expressed through emotions.
(Stealing, by the way, is spoken of every bit as precisely as murder in moral theology.)
So, again…
H
Hope_Philomena
Guest
Can you stop with the straw man? When did I say that abortion is “less rooted in morality”? I feel like even you don’t know what you’re talking about, just spouting words in an attempt to go down winding philosophical tangents that you know cannot be solved.This is a really troubling statement:
Justifying this statement is going to require heavy duty semantics. Debating what stealing means vs “taking out of need”. And killing vs murder. etc…
Both moral issues can be picked apart with semantics til one get’s dizzy from the circles.
The idea that abortion is any less rooted in morality because it is “complicated” is preposterous and terrifying. “Complications” are the perpetual excuse for moral vacillation. It’s infantile morality.
If nothing else, a crime as heinous as murder should be all the more clearly expressed in religious beliefs and expressed through emotions.
(Stealing, by the way, is spoken of every bit as precisely as murder in moral theology.)
So, again…
It’s like you aren’t reading! Dear God.
Let me break down your statements one by one:
“Debating what stealing means vs “taking out of need”. And killing vs murder. etc…
Both moral issues can be picked apart with semantics til one get’s dizzy from the circles.”
We’re talking about how the law defines stealing. What is not clear about that?
"The idea that abortion is any less rooted in morality because it is “complicated” is preposterous and terrifying. “Complications” are the perpetual excuse for moral vacillation. It’s infantile morality. "
Again, I said no such thing. I was explaining that much of what makes up arguments for/against abortion are based on emotion and religion, two things which have an uncertain (or no) place in law. It’s not “less rooted” it’s literally just complicated so more things should be taken into consideration in regards to it. Nobody is using the complicated nature of abortion as an excuse.
“If nothing else, a crime as heinous as murder should be all the more clearly expressed in religious beliefs and expressed through emotions.”
If you’re referring to abortion as murder. Again. Not everyone thinks it is murder. Because not everyone believes in Creation, not everyone agrees with you, not everyone thinks the exact way you do. And why should “crime as heinous as murder” be more clearly expressed through religion and emotions than logic? What is your reasoning here.
“(Stealing, by the way, is spoken of every bit as precisely as murder in moral theology.)”
What are you even trying to do here? Nobody said anything about stealing not being an important concept in religion. I’m saying that stealing is considered wrong across pretty much every single barrier that separates humans, be it religion or race or nationality. What do you not get about this?
M
Memaw
Guest
OH NO, I do not know very well. I do know it is against one of the 10 Commandment to kill an innocent person and an unborn baby is an innocent person. Just because “most” agree that stealing is wrong, is NOT what makes it wrong!! It is wrong because God says it is and all human beings should obey God’s laws no matter what. It was wrong for the Aztec to offer human sacrifices even tho most of them believed it was OK. God Bless, Memaw
S
Sy_Noe
Guest
If you studied different faiths including even some Christian denominations, you would know not all agree on the issue of abortion. Not all hold the Catholic view.
H
Hope_Philomena
Guest
You don’t have to preach to me, so please save your words… I’m aware of Catholic teachings.
M
Memaw
Guest
I know that, but that STILL doesn’t make it right. What do you think God would think of it?? Archbishop Sheen said, "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it and the TRUTH is still the truth even if nobody believes it. Same goes for abortion. There was a time when ALL Christian denominations believed abortion was killing an innocent baby. What happened??? God Bless, Memaw
M
Memaw
Guest
Why is it what I’m saying is “preaching”, but what your saying isn’t??? God Bless, Memaw
M
MtnDwellar
Guest
The OP self identifies as Catholic. He posted a question on a Catholic website. I think we can rightly assume that he was looking for a Catholic answer.
We know that not everyone agrees with Catholic teachings, including those teachings on abortion. That’s why there is more than one religion!
Why do non-Catholics want to argue and insult us?
S
Sy_Noe
Guest
What happened? Perhaps as they walk along their journeys in faith not by sight, their finite understanding of an infinite God evolves or changes. Some might say grows.
S
Sy_Noe
Guest
As I’ve read through the thread, the OP has received many replies with a Catholic answer. And I’m not sure how you know who is a non-Catholic here according to Catholic teaching. Regardless, I have seen no one insulting Catholics. Simply pointing out that not all people of faith nor people without a religious faith agree with Catholic teaching is surely not arguing in an insulting way. It’s merely pointing out and discussing a fact which you yourself attest to. Why do the faithful fear such discussion?
S
Sy_Noe
Guest
S
Sy_Noe
Guest
M
MtnDwellar
Guest
Repeatedly stating that which is patently obvious is not providing an argument. It actually is insulting.
One easy way that I can know a poster has non-Catholic views is by the way he fills in his profile. ie “Non practicing Roman Catholic with mainline Christian faith”
We do not fear such discussion. Calling someone fearful is insulting.
Catholics believe that life begins at conception and that all life is sacred. Others believe that the unborn are not worthy of protection and can be thrown into the garbage. There are well known arguments on both sides.
What is the purpose of attempting to argue in favor of abortion with Catholics on a Catholic website?
S
Sophie_Lawrence
Guest
How would you prefer to die by being killed by your own mother, or by being held by your mother in your last moments? Sometimes babies get very sick in the first few days and die. Losing a child, no matter the age is traumatic. How could abortion be less traumatic? By the time baby is big enough to diagnose a disease that is not compatible to life baby is almost or at viability. Abortion at this stage would still require delivering the dead baby. The woman often has to go thru labor after the baby is killed. Tiller, the late abortionist would poison the babies’ by a shot to the heart to stop its beating. Then the woman would be sent to a hotel to go through labor. Then come back to deliver the dead baby.
My grandmother had a baby die the same day he was born. She described him always as looking like an angel. Of course she was sad as any mother that loses a baby or a child. I can’t imagine her sadness being less because she aborted him so he wouldn’t die in from of her.
M
Memaw
Guest
I think because they are afraid the Catholic Church is right so they attack Her beliefs. God Bless, Memaw.
G
goout
Guest
But the drumbeat goes on from you and others, that some beliefs are worthy of consideration, and some are not. You would have some beliefs disqualified merely because they are “religious”, and in your view that means they are “forced on others”.
Which is nonsense, as we will have laws in any case, and someone’s beliefs will be codified into law. You would like to have your own views enforced because they are not very “religious” in your view.
This is the dictatorship of relativism, which is the most intolerant of philosophies because it squashes the search for truth and morality.
M
Memaw
Guest
Their understanding may be changing to suit their wants, but GOD’S doesn’t. Life is sacred to God, HE is the Creator. HE sent His SON die for ALL of us, whether we believe it or NOT. Didn’t Jesus warn us that the path to Heaven is narrow and difficult but the path to Hell is wide and easy!!! God Bless, MemawWhat happened? Perhaps as they walk along their journeys in faith not by sight, their finite understanding of an infinite God evolves or changes. Some might say grows.
P
pensmama87
Guest
One thing I find curious about the “pushing your religion on us” argument is that it is a major distraction and actually not important. Whatever one’s view of ensoulment and personhood and the rest, the science is clear: sperm meets egg, new being with human DNA created. It seems to me that the burden of proof goes the wrong way. The justification should come from those saying, “We have the right to kill this being, because it’s less of a person than other people.”
Shouldn’t those supposedly on the side of the innocent, the powerless, the oppressed not be so keen to just assume a group of humans aren’t really people, and thus OK to kill?
(Learning about embryonic and fetal development, and the actual techniques of abortion, were key to my becoming pro-life. Sophie Lawrence points it out well above. It’s not like you blissfully go to sleep and then wake up and you’re not pregnant, like you’ve gone back in time. In late term abortion, you still deliver the baby. The risks of childbirth are still present. You also have to.disclose that abortion for the rest of your life. I just filled out intake paperwork for prenatal care for my fourth. I’m seeing the same provider, but I still had to answer the form: How many pregnancies? How many live births? How many miscarriages? How many still births? How many abortions? How many children living today? I’ll have to answer again for any ultrasounds and at any regular gynecological exams for the rest of my life.)
- Status