Abortion Doctor Geroge Tiller Murdered this morning

[Agatina]

“No baby has an absolute right to be born. No mother has an absolute right to an abortion.”
A quote from the abortion statement (Keep reading to find it). It’s on Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.org Or ELCA.org.
On my way to morning mass.
Agatina

 

[mmm1]

Wow…you really don’t have sympathy for his family? What about his children? His parents (if still alive)? Why wouldn’t you have sympathy for them?

I am reading this thread in disbelief. (Not just this post, but all the posts).This just doesn’t sound like a Christian board now. It’s so sad.

I was trying to wait until I finished the whole thread to comment, but I am sad to have to agree with you. A number of posts make Christians & pro-lifers look bad, & un-Christian.

 

[Catholic_Press]

Wichita, Kan., May 31, 2009 (CNA).- Prominent voices of the pro-life movement repudiated the murder of the late-term abortion provider George Tiller, …

Full article…

 

[mmm1]

Incidentally, why are we referring to the assassination of Mister Tiller as a murder?

The killing was illegitimate because imprudent (CCC 2243), and on those grounds I condemn the action. But there’s nothing inherently unjust about taking the life of a practicing murderer who fully intended to murder again come Monday morning. Further, in a nation where there is no legitimate civil authority supporting human rights (and where the institutions of government are in fact directly opposed to efforts to protect those rights), there’s nothing untoward about a private citizen carrying out such a killing. If the killing is not unjust, then it may be illegitimate (as it was here), and it is certainly homicide, but it certainly isn’t murder. Calling it a “murder” only plays into the abortionists’ portrayal of the entire abortion issue as a battlefield where valiant “abortion doctors” advocating “women’s health” and “helping those in need” crusade against “crazy right-wing fanatics” who “oppose human rights.”

The only reason the killing was wrong – or so it seems to me – is because it damages the anti-abortion movement as a whole and makes it more likely that more babies are going to die in the long run. That’s a very serious problem, and one wishes Mr. Roeder had talked to somebody with a firmer head on his shoulders before committing this senseless act of justice. But let’s not feed the enemy narrative by conceding that this was a murder any more than they concede that Mr. Tiller was a murderer.

Yes?

And, yes, I will say two extra prayers tonight: one for the babies Mr. Tiller murdered and one for Mr. Tiller himself. Just because I think his killing was, in some sense, just does not mean I condemn the man, nor that I do not hope one day–somehow–to meet him in heaven.

I am speechless, with comments like this coming from a faithful Catholic. I am very pro-life & would never condone the acts of people in the culture of death, but Tiller was murdered & we can never condone that.

 

[rpp]

I just heard about this. What a terrible tragedy. It was utterly wrong to murder Dr. Tiller. Violence is not the answer.

 

[estesbob]

Sometimes anti choice speech is hate speech and sometimes it’s reasoned and
gentle.
No one has condoned this murder…a few here think that it okay because an abortionist
was the victim, but most are saddened.

. Just what exactly does it mean to be anit-choice?

 

[wanner47]

“No baby has an absolute right to be born. No mother has an absolute right to an abortion.”
A quote from the abortion statement (Keep reading to find it). It’s on Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.org Or ELCA.org.
On my way to morning mass.
Agatina

The ELCA’s statement on abortion was one of the main catalysts for me y conversion to Catholicism.

That being said, Dr. Tiller attended a “reformed Lutheran” church. I do not think he was a member of the ELCA.

Also, some comments:

The just war doctrine does not apply to individuals, so stop using it to justify Dr. Tiller’s murder. Moreover, all civil legal avenues to end Dr. Tiller’s practice had not yet been exhausted. There was no justification for murder of this man. Murder is an intrinsic evil.

What if some deluded pro-abortion idiot had killed, say, Fr. Pavone, using the justification that his actions were helping women, maybe even saving their lives? Would the rhetoric going in in this thread be accepted coming from the pro-abortion camp, that murdered pro-lifers ate just casualties of a war?

One of the worst parts of this whole mess is that now the chances of Tiller’s children and grandchildren converting to the pro-life cause are slim to none. Think of what an influence they could have been! But now they probably consider all pro-lifers to be dangerous lunatics.

The lack of charity on this thread is making me sick. If we want to be pro-life, then we need to ACT like it. Vigilante justice is not acceptable.

 

[Tosk]

I am speechless, with comments like this coming from a faithful Catholic. I am very pro-life & would never condone the acts of people in the culture of death, but Tiller was murdered & we can never condone that.

Don’t you believe in self defense? If he really was tearing apart babies limb from limb and killing him stopped this how was it not self defense?

The only thing that you can say is that it would be politically unwise to promote violence against abortion doctors at this time and killing Tiller may end up costing more lives than it saves. The most you can say is that it was tactically unwise to kill Tiller and the pro-life movement should distance itself from the killer’s actions in order not to suffer politically. I am assuming that is what all of the leaders in the pro-life movement really mean when they condemn this “heinous act”.

 

[pnewton]

Sometimes anti choice speech is hate speech and sometimes it’s reasoned and
gentle.

What is “anti-choice” speech? I do not think I have heard that term. Does it imply this gunman should be given the choice to murder someone, or does one need a PhD for that honor?

 

[SourGrape]

Don’t you believe in self defense? If he really was tearing apart babies limb from limb and killing him stopped this how was it not self defense?

The only thing that you can say is that it would be politically unwise to promote violence against abortion doctors at this time and killing Tiller may end up costing more lives than it saves. The most you can say is that it was tactically unwise to kill Tiller and the pro-life movement should distance itself from the killer’s actions in order not to suffer politically. I am assuming that is what all of the leaders in the pro-life movement really mean when they condemn this “heinous act”.

Tosk, I agree with you.

However, after reading the posts on this thread, I feel I will have to discuss my personal feelings toward this event with my confessor and also ask our Lord for guidance. I just cannot, at this point, say I believe the shooting of Tiller was “heinous.”

 

[siamesecat]

I actually really am confused as to why the Church accepts the death penalty and just wars, but not this murder?

I’m not a Catholic, so I am appalled by Dr. Tiller’s murder (I’m sure most Catholics are as well, I just don’t consider abortion as terrible as they do). But in trying to understand Catholic teaching, I am confused.

And I don’t really understand why people consider Iraqi civilians necessary casualties, but are so horrified with these type of abortions. Most of the fetuses aborted by Dr. Tiller were horrifically disabled and I would argue it is merciful. I know according to Church teaching it is still murder, I have a lot more understanding for this guy than some abortions doctors. While I am somewhat disturbed by allegations of abortions on 10 year olds, it seems most of these women really needed an abortion, and I admire his courage.

 

[pnewton]

Maybe all of you are better people than I am but I cannot help feeling glad that this happened. The only poetic justice would have been if this man had been dismembered as he has done to thousands of children.

No, it is not. The person who made this first post has taken no action at all so there is no logical first step. Also, she mad no justification for the action but only expressed here feelings. If we read in the news today that Obama was killed by one of his men for some reason, it would not be an endorsement of murder to because we were glad that an evil man had been finally stopped from commiting more atrocities. Yes, the act of murder was intrinsically evil. Yes, it can never be justified. But when evil battles evil it is good to see the worst side lose.

 

[jonobr]

Hello

Please be patient with me while I ask this question and forgive my ignorance…

I believe the death of Tiller in this way is a tragedy.
I think we should pray for him , his family and all the lives, born and unborn he has affected.
Murder is murder and this action will do nothing more then set back the pro-life movement.

However, I have thought long and hard about this and there is something which I am hoping you can help me with.

Again, please remember what I mentioned above.

If I see someone about to kill a child or children and taking the other persons life is the only way to stop this from happening. According to the law, I would be justified.
Am I committing a mortal sin?

If what I do is justifiable, is it different when you have this state allowed form of killing and I stop the provider (Tiller) from doing this.

I know in my heart murdering Tiller is wrong, but Im trying to understand if there would be any similarity to me defending the life of the born?

Please help my mis-understanding
Lord I believe- help my unbelief…

Thanks
.

 

[mmm1]

Don’t you believe in self defense? If he really was tearing apart babies limb from limb and killing him stopped this how was it not self defense?

The only thing that you can say is that it would be politically unwise to promote violence against abortion doctors at this time and killing Tiller may end up costing more lives than it saves. The most you can say is that it was tactically unwise to kill Tiller and the pro-life movement should distance itself from the killer’s actions in order not to suffer politically. I am assuming that is what all of the leaders in the pro-life movement really mean when they condemn this “heinous act”.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe what he does in his clinic is a heinous act against those women & children & their families, but this was NOT self defense.

I can say I believe Satan used this man’s hate & anger to inspire him to commit the sin of murder. May God have mercy on him & Tiller. I pray for everyone involved.

 

[pnewton]

I actually really am confused as to why the Church accepts the death penalty and just wars, but not this murder?

Just war and the death penalty are always actions taken by legitimate authority. It is to legal authority that obligation to protect the innocent falls. Consider how many denominations have split over their own interpretation of the Bible. We cannot allow every man to interpret justice for themselves, even in cases like this.

 

[Dtmccameron]

Just war and the death penalty are always actions taken by legitimate authority. It is to legal authority that obligation to protect the innocent falls. .

And when legitimate authority is absent? When legitimate authority cannot be relied upon to defend us?

 

[Tosk]

Don’t get me wrong, I believe what he does in his clinic is a heinous act against those women & children & their families, but this was NOT self defense.

I can say I believe Satan used this man’s hate & anger to inspire him to commit the sin of murder. May God have mercy on him & Tiller. I pray for everyone involved.

Don’t worry, we’re on the same page here. You see, I am winking at you.

I will not mention this again.

 

[mmm1]

Don’t worry, we’re on the same page here. You see, I am winking at you.

I will not mention this again.

OK, I misunderstood (I do that a lot).

 

[Holly3278]

How horrible. I condemn such violence in the strongest words possible! Such violence is despicable and anyone who chooses to try to end abortions through this manner is not truly pro-life!

 

[mmm1]

I don’t mean to condemn anyone when I get concerned that some people sound uncharitable or un-Christian. I understand the anger & frustration. I really think we do harm to our cause, though, when we use inflammatory language & hint that this is justified. (I’m not saying that everyone has done that). There are people on the fringe out there who can misinterpret our frustration & think we agree with their acts of violence. Others might look at a board like this & stay away from the Catholic faith or pro-life movement. A girl or woman in our lives will not come to us for help or advice if they hear us talking about baby killers & hating Tiller.

It’s hard, but we’re not supposed to hate our enemies & those that are horribly misguided.